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User:Djflem/Cen-Des place

< User:Djflem

I guess the table comes with a question: While there's been discussion at various times at NGEOtalk, which have been inconclusive, do not the arguments and outcomes contribute to and/or represent consensus?

Despite language stating otherwise, certain guidelines and in subsequent editing, Wikipedia does grant 'inherent notability', where verifiability is sufficient for inclusion in the encyclopedia. In a US context, for example, NPOL allows for 'automatic inclusion' of statewide/national politicians and Wikipedia:NGEO for the districts from which they are elected. NGEO also affords this status to school districts and incorporated places.

There is community-wide consensus to "grant" CDPs the same 'inherent notability' (thus, automatic inclusion) as incorporated communities/municipalities, which, in the US context, is how 'legally recognized' has been interpreted and applied. This collective consistent choice to endow CDPs with same status as incorporated communities, which can never be deleted, is a precedent established by extensive participation over an extended period and is backed up by arguments made in and demonstrated in the outcomes of +/- 30 AfDs involving CDPs over several years. This has more weight than the local consensus in any single AfD or at NGEOtalk, where no agreement has ever been reached, and represents a process of discussion and editing.

Consensus

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  • Wikipedia:Arbitration clearly states that "where there is a global consensus to edit in a certain way, it should be respected and cannot be overruled by a local consensus". This is re-iterated at Wikipedia:CONLEVEL: "Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale."
  • Wikipedia talk:Notability (geographic features) and any discussion at an individual afd is local consensus with limited participation (thus, this consensus through discussion is subordinate to the global consensus).
  • A nomination for deletion is a proposed edit by a contributor to eliminate an article.
  • Since 2018 the Wikipedia community has consistently and overwhelmingly rejected those proposed edits. This is representative a global consensus 'to edit a certain way" developed over a period of years. The consensus through editing seen in the historical argumnents/outcomes of AfDs involving CDPs clearly shows broad participation, preference and precedent to edit so that CDP are afforded a special status.

Archives 2018 to date

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A review of WikiProject Deletion sorting for geography archive from 2018-to date reveals the community-wide response to AfDs for CDPs:

1. There have been 8 keeps of CDPs
2. There has been 1 keep of a CDP specifically segregated in a bundled nomination
3. There have been 17 redirects/merges of neighborhoods/unincorporated communities to CDP (targeted primary article of recognized populated place)
4. There have been 3 no consensus to delete CDP
5. There has been 1 redirect of a former (hyphenated) CDP (for disambiguation)
6. There has been 1 deletion of former (hyphenated) CDP (article split)
AFDCDP

Segregated CDP

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Locust Mount, Virginia specifically 'rescued' from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Davis Wharf, Virginia because it is CDP.

No consensus AfDs

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Result no consensus despite arguments/keep !votes; represents very 'local' outcome

Redirects to CDPs

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Redirects to CDPs acknowledge community wide understanding of CDPs as primary article and legally recognised and are consistent with:

  • Wikipedia:PLACEOUTCOMES:Smaller suburbs are generally merged, being listed under the primary city article, except when they consist of legally separate municipalities or communes
  • Wikipedia:GEOLAND:If a Wikipedia article cannot be developed using known sources, information on the informal place should be included in the more general article on the legally recognized populated place or administrative subdivision that contains it.

Deletion/redirect of CPDs

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technical reasons

pre 2018 (incomplete?)

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GEOLAND in US context

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USCB: Places are concentrations of population such as cities, that have legally prescribed boundaries, powers, and functions. Other population centers without legally defined corporate limits or corporate powers are defined by the Census Bureau in cooperation with state officials and local data users. These are called Census-Designated Places (CDPs) and are identified...by the acronym CDP following the place name.

NGEO for US purposes IN PRACTICE but never officially adopted (similar to NPOL) grants incorporated place 'inherent' notability.

There is no accepted objective definition of 'legally recognized' in geography, except perhaps the recognition of a soverigen nation state/territory. To claim it means legal person or legal entity remains individually held and subjective.

  • "legally recognised" is weasel word used because EN Wikipedia must address a world-wide audience. In the US context it has been taken to mean "incorporated place", nothing more, nothing less, but does grant 'inherent notability' and 'automatic inclusion'. (This also extends to school districts and statewide/national election districts.)
  • "informal places" is a another vague term, but in the US context has been applied to 'unincorporated communities'
  • NGEO makes specific mention of census tracts, but is silent on CDPs. (a faulty semantics issue: One exception is that census tracts are usually not considered notable, which reads as if they are "legally recognised", but don't have 'presumed notability'.)

Inconclusive local discussions at NGEOtalk

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There is no guidance offered in Wikipedia talk:Notability (geographic features). It remains inconclusive.

Feature of gazetteer

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The practice--consensus through editing--seen in the above make a very clear distinction regarding CDPs. That coverage is one of the features/functions of a gazetteer that Wikipedia performs. It has remained consistent/constant way to represent/navigate the populated places of nearly 40 million Americans who live in CDPS and represents a community consensus to identify CDPS separately from other communities. A encyclopedia should be complete an it would would diminish in quality if, say, the Census Bureau records 4,000 CDPs and Wikipedia records 3,996. Actually that would be weird.

USCB, FCC, OCC, and others on CDPs

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USCB

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  • "Census-designated places" (PDF). Chapter 9 Places (page 9-21). www2.census.gov. 1990.
Census designated places (CDPs) are communities that lack separate governments but otherwise resemble incorporated places. They are settled population centers with a definite residential core, a relatively high population density, and a degree of local identity. Often a CDP includes commercial, industrial, or other urban types of land use. Before each decennial census, CDPs are delineated by State and local agencies, and by tribal officials according to Census Bureau criteria. The resulting CDP delineations are then reviewed and approved by the Census Bureau. The Census Bureau has used slightly different definitional criteria for CDPs, depending on their geographic location; such specialized criteria reflect the uniquely different living conditions or settlement patterns found in certain areas and the relative importance of settlement size.
CDPs are statistical geographic entities representing closely settled, unincorporated communities that are locally recognized and identified by name. They are the statistical equivalents of incorporated places, with the primary differences being the lack of both a legally-defined boundary and an active, functioning governmental structure, chartered by the state and administered by elected officials.
1. A CDP constitutes a single, closely settled center of population that is named.
2. A CDP generally consists of a contiguous cluster of census blocks comprising a single piece of territory and containing a mix of residential and commercial uses similar to that of an incorporated place of similar size. Some CDPs, however, may be predominantly residential; such places should represent recognizably distinct, locally known communities, but not typical suburban subdivisions.
3. The CDP name should be one that is recognized and used in daily communication by the residents of the community. Because unincorporated communities generally lack legally defined boundaries, a commonly used community name and the geographic extent of its use by local residents is often the best identifier of the extent of a place, the assumption being that if residents associate with a particular name and use it to identify the place in which they live, then the CDP’s boundaries can be mapped based on the use of the name. There should be features in the landscape that use the name, such that a non-resident would have a general sense of the location or extent of the community;

The Census Bureau did not receive any comments in response to the proposed criteria published in the Federal Register on February 15, 2018 (83 FR 6934). As a result, the proposed criteria are adopted as final criteria without change.

The CDP concept and delineation criteria have evolved over the past seven decades in response to data user needs for place-level data. This evolution has taken into account differences in the way in which places were perceived, and the propensity for places to incorporate in various states. The result, over time, has been an increase in the number and types of unincorporated communities identified as CDPs. This also results in an increasing consistency in the relationship between the CDP concept and the kinds of places encompassed by the incorporated place category, or a compromise between localized perceptions of place and a concept that would be familiar to data users throughout the United States, Puerto Rico, and the Island Areas.
Although not as numerous as incorporated places or municipalities, CDPs have been important geographic entities since their introduction for the 1950 Census (CDPs were referred to as “unincorporated places” from 1950 through the 1970 decennial censuses).
According to the 2010 Census, more than 38.7 million people in the United States, Puerto Rico, and the Island Areas lived in CDPs. The relative importance of CDPs varies from state to state depending on laws governing municipal incorporation and annexation, but also depending on local preferences and attitudes regarding the identification of places.

FCC

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FCC: The commission has defined 'communities' as geographically identifiable population groupings. Generally, if the community is incorporated or listed in the U.S. Census, that is sufficient to satisfy its status.

OCC

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OCC: Definition fo place specifically includes "census-designated place"


Other

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  • Dhavale, Dawn (August 6, 2004). "More Than Artifacts: The Surprising Importance of Census Designated Places" (Document). {{cite document}}: Cite document requires |publisher= (help); Unknown parameter |accessdate= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |citeseerx= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |url= ignored (help)
  • "Comparing 2010 and 2020 Census Area Boundaries". Sarasota County, Florida. 10 February 2021. Retrieved February 10, 2022. Census Designated Places (CDPs) are statistical geographic entities representing closely settled, unincorporated communities that are locally recognized and identified by name. They are statistical equivalents of incorporated places, with the primary differences being the lack of both a legally defined boundary and an active, functioning governmental structure chartered by the state and administered by elected officials. The purpose of CDPs is to provide meaningful statistics for well-known, unincorporated communities.
  • The Division of Library and Information Services - Florida Department of State lists cities, towns, and CDPS; it does not list census tracts."City County List". Division of Library and Information Services - Florida Department of State.

States

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  1. ^ https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-01/documents/los_alamos_final_designation_1_8_2020.pdf
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