User talk:Basar/Archive 1

Archive 1

SATs

I notice you reverted my edit of the Katie Holmes article. SATs is incorrect; SAT (singular) is the correct form. 209.236.231.253 01:11, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• I just noticed you redid it. My apologies, and thank you. 209.236.231.253 01:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
• Indeed; I was reverting the edit before yours. Basar 01:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Bearing capacity

I'm not sure that the Terzaghi equations should be included in the Bearing capacity article, as Hansen and Meyerhof are much more commonly used by practicing engineers. I rewrote the sentence about allowable bearing capacity in soil mechanics to be a little more general; while a F.S. of 3 is common, it's not universal; there's a common rough method which has a F.S. > 2.57, but not necessarily 3. Also, the F.S. of 3 is for dead plus live loads; we typically allow an increase of 33% (reduction of F.S. of 25%) for wind and seismic (or other transient) loads. But meanwhile, thanks for picking up the ball on the geotech articles; I'd reached a point where I was too close to them to contemplate significant improvements, and was sticking to vandal reverts and minor edits. Argyriou (talk) 23:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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pile

The only reason that i changed the catagory type for the pile page is because the brauder term Civil Engineering seems to make more sense and for the pile page it covers more than just geotechinical engineering thanks Pdigrl 15:11, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Neat

I'm mainly in geophysics now, but retain my geotechnical roots. I've done articles on slope stability, and am now happy to get the nasty 'civil' purged! --Zeizmic 02:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Wave equation analysis Page

May i ask you why you made some some of the edits to the Wave equation analysis page? i know that they were not large edits but they take out important bits of information, and make it gramaticly correct. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pdigrl (talk • contribs) 06:56, January 22, 2007.

List of California birds

Congrats, on getting this list featured, always good to see more bird lists featured. I didn't see the nomination until it was too late, but in case you are considering anymore bird lists, I know the history of the text introducing the families. List of North American birds was the first FL. (It was selected, I believe, in part because its failed FA nom inspired the creation FL) At the time of its elevation the families did not have the intro text. When I nominated List of Oklahoma birds one commenter, who was unfamiliar with birds wanted some sort of intro for each group. I cribbed together the descriptions from the Wikipedia articles on each family. Some of them are just a direct quote of the first several sentences of each article. The families not present in Oklahoma were written later either for other lists like Florida, or were written for the NA list. Dsmdgold 16:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

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Unspecified source for Image:Branta bernicla2.jpg

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On the commons you linked the wrong image. However, the set you linked is free. gren グレン 09:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I fixed the link. Basar 16:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

grading

I've replied at Talk:Unified Soil Classification System. Αργυριου (talk) 00:44, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Retaining walls

Responded on my page. Cheers. MadMaxDog 10:31, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Santana

-Johan Santana: Off-hand, how many pitchers, let alone AL pitchers, can you think of that have hit a triple? I apologize for not being the best at writing this stuff, but doesn't that seem to warrant noting? I thought it was quite the feat for a pitcher.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mtcupps (talk • contribs) 01:34, June 25, 2007.

Thank you for the tip...however

I have never been advised as such by anyone else, including admin. I have a personal style that may not be for everyone. As for the Sacramento page I would worry a little more about the article itself. I had to remove an ad link for a dance studio and then taged it for speedy removal. If editors spent as much time on the Articles as they do critisizing others, we would have much more accurate articles with far less spam. But thank you for taking the time to contact me. Have some cookies.

Cookies!

--Amadscientist 21:34, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

No you weren't wrong. I just don't have alot of time while I am trying to edit and contribute....and to be honest I've had problems with a few editors in the recent past get very harsh and uncivil with me over wikipedia policy...where they were in the wrong. I do try to add summeries when I have time and can think of the appropriet words. I really should have added "More information" at the very least....but it was late and I was on meds and falling asleep at the keyboard.--Amadscientist 22:35, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Time to delete History section

From what I understand if a section is given it's own page we leave the main article notification for a period then remove it and add to "See Also". Don't you think the page looks odd with a section that isn't even in the article at the top of the page? Perhaps it is time to removes that section as it is empty now. Redirects don't really constitute a section. What do you think? Could use the clean up.--Amadscientist 20:07, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes of course, I did not realize that. Thank you for pointing that out. This surely shows my lack of experiance on Wiki. Got it.--Amadscientist 20:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

CalPoly

You must be at SLO.

The battle you have engaged is a bit old, others having taken your position, while yet others oppose. Please see the note on the talk page for the disambiguation page, which I left there but a few minutes ago. William R. Buckley 05:32, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I bring to your attention another salvo in the popular vs. official naming war; adjustment by an anonymous editor. William R. Buckley 16:38, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

You might have the best plan - leave the small change, rather than revert. I think my point is that many other editors have engaged this bicker (sp?). Your (IIRC) edit was to point out that either school is known as CalPoly. Some editors find this unacceptable. Yet, even the schools have vascillated. Frankly, for such issues, I think that the disambiguation page is a right suitable place to include discussion. Anyway, at least you are apprised. Ciao! William R. Buckley 16:27, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Baseball Content

I saw your post on the baseball project. I like the template and think it can definitely help with those articles. On a related topic, I have been reading wiki for a loooong time. I am just now editing. You can see my first real contributions here and here. I will say that I find the baseball related content on here to be pretty horrendous. There are tons and tons and tons and tons of bad articles. My biggest complaint is that information is being templated out the "wahzoo" and these templates and lists and see also sections are getting out of hand. I see articles like Frank Robinson and my mind goes nuts. I am so hesitant to talk on that baseball project page after the recent spat that broke out there that was about everything but content. Do you have any suggestions? Long levi 07:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, welcome to the editing community. You did a really good job on your first two articles, especially handling the referencing and template syntaxes. I'm not sure what to do about fixing the baseball section of Wikipedia. Those arguments on the project page were rather over the top. The editor who came in and tried to act like a mediator and call for a straw poll did the right thing, so hopefully a consensus is reached and they can edit more important and more enjoyable things. Perhaps baseball, or sports in general, are a little special in that there are so many different ways to looks at records and positions that they lend themselves to an exorbitant amount of templates and lists that other parts of the encyclopedia do not. One way to handle it is to take a deletionist attitude and remove all but the most important things. I do not particularly favor that philosophy and would rather see standards brought forth which promote consistency and coherency between articles, so that editors know exactly what is needed and what is supposed to be included. That may, or may not, help reduce unnecessary templates and see also entries. Like on Frank Robinson, those larger managerial templates are probably redundant with the managerial succession box. Using that show/hide feature also helps. It would be nice if there was more content attention and discussion, but I'm not sure what can be done about that. The more you edit, the more comfortable and confident you'll become when faced with things like project pages and arguments. By the way, I think the last line you put in that image you uploaded should stop the bot, but saying how you got the image might be helpful too. Cheers. Basar 07:23, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

• I hope you don't mind, I copied the text from your post here so the conversation is easier to follow for you. There was an editor who was not the mediator, and I like the attempt to bring order, but they did a pretty poor job. That straw poll was pretty misleading. But i digress. I am frightened from even talking on any of those pages. The people on there just can't get along. I think one problem that wikipedians have in general is that they believe that more content is tantamount to better content. The List of top 500 Major League Baseball home run hitters is a prefect example. It is ridiculously long (to the point that it is not useful). There is a discussion going on where someone defended it by saying it is neat to follow the daily updates. I don't know that wiki is intended for that. I'm all ears. Long levi 03:42, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Sure, we can keep it on this page if you would like. I must have misunderstood what was happening when I skimmed it; the straw poll seemed like a good idea. You may know more about this stuff than I since I had never seen WP:L or WP:LAUNDRY. I think you are right that Wikipedia is not intended for such quickly changing information. Doing so takes a lot of effort on the part of the user and it clogs the page history. If the user who is updating the page leaves, then we just have a bunch of outdated content. Having information that dates less quickly, or not at all, is certainly preferable given the option. Deciding what content should be included in the encyclopedia is hard to define in general terms and also in some specific situations. It is also difficult deleting a person's work if they spent a lot of time adding it to the encyclopedia. Wikipedia is also not paper, so it doesn't have the typical confines of a classical encyclopedia. Too much information can make it difficult to find the information you really care about, and some kinds of information are best left to other wiki projects or other sources entirely (perhaps continually updated stats in the middle of a season is best left to espn and mlb who have automatically updating systems). I think you would find that your arguments are more thoughtful and well researched than most people on these pages, especially baseball pages, if you decided to engage in the conversations you care about. After all, it is a wiki guideline to be bold. People have talked about content inclusion philosophies; there are inclusionists as well as deletionists and some people of other philosophies. I don't think there is an easy answer. Basar 05:13, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

• Oh we can keep this discussion wherever, I just thought it would be easier on you. The straw poll was definitely a good idea, but it was also worded very poorly. According to WP:STRAW, that means it should not be considered. I'm not sure if i'm an inclusioinist or a deletionist. I certainly don't have a problem with good information being included, but all of these templates duplicate information. I don't think this benefits the article. Look at this recent change to Koufax. So now we have 3 stat sites? all of which say essentially the same thing? I agree with you 100% on all of these "updating" stats. People do it because they like contributing, I understand that. But it still doesn't mean that it's an effective way to contribute. I took some time looking at two articles that were mentioned heavily: Brad Ausmus and Jason Marquis. They are in horrible shape. I want to be bold and start "fixing" things...but I am scared that I'll be attacked. I created List of major baseball leagues because i think that people confuse the term "Major League Baseball" (ie - the league) and major league baseball (the level of competition). More work needs to be done to straighten out professional baseball and Major League Baseball. Professional baseball (at least in the USA), starts in the minors as they are paid professionals. I don't want people's opinions to be ignored, but I also feel like there were a lot of reasonable points made that were glossed over because of "hurt feelings". Long levi 08:57, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
• Alright, well let's see how everyone plays. I've requested a page move and content reduction for this article.

Impending help

Well, what I thought was going to happen, has. It looks like User:Baseball Bugs, User:Epeefleche and User:Irishguy are trying to drag me into a fight over content. I've left the Hank Aaron article for now. A level head might be beneficial to the situation as they are starting to follow me around.  Long Levi  06:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Ya, I just noticed that and was looking over that article. I think you are right to just walk away from the argument. After all, it is just one link. If those editors are the kind that will be gone in a few months, perhaps the issue could be re-addressed. I think we can still try to bring Aaron to good article status; I may help out with some small things. Basar 07:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I have not tried to start any fights with Long levi. I've paid him one compliment and raised one fair question (as someone else did too) about the usefulness of a new page he created (see Talk:List of major baseball leagues). Anything he knows beyond that can only come from him following us around. So it's fair to assume that he already knows we're building a sockpuppet case against him. Baseball Bugs 07:16, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. It is indeed a serious accusation, and a checkuser is indeed part of the process. Baseball Bugs 12:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

He's been blocked indefinitely, following a checkuser. Baseball Bugs 22:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. We went by the book, and wiki-justice was swift. :) Baseball Bugs 22:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk: SLO

Looks like I accidentally edited teh archive page. Thanks for catcing it! —XSG 06:46, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk: Jeff Claassen

After spending months researching valid information to contribute a worthy article to wikipedia, about an award winning artist whom I have admired for years- my article was tagged for "speedy deletion" by user you, and removed within hours of posting. I feel that this was extremely rash and unnecessary. The subject's "notability" was cited, however the artist has achieved notoriety in film, television and print (two references were linked in the article), as well as a large following throughout the US and overseas. He has changed the attitude toward contemporary art in the San Luis Obispo area and has opened the door for many younger up and coming artists from Portland, San Diego, and Los Angeles, by providing a showcase for them in his gallery. The public is interested in this person. I know of many people who have searched his name in wikipedia, hoping to learn more about him, to no avail. It was this lack of information which lead me to write the piece myself. I feel that the subject was unfairly tagged and the article, unjustly deleted because of one editor on a power-trip. Free speech, indeed...

User talk:jeffismygyro Jeffismygyro 15:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

You do not satisfy the notablity requirements for a "creative professional". -- Basar (talk · contribs) 19:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

You do not satisfy the neutrality requirements of an "editor". The article was essentially removed because of your limited knowledge of contemporary art. It's a completely one-sided argument, as you've deleted the article without giving me a fair opportunity to amend it. Bravo.

Perhaps you should take it up with User:Carlossuarez46, who is the admin who agreed with Basar that the article should be deleted. Argyriou (talk) 21:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: {{Baseballstats}}

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate all the aork that's gone into your template, and I think it'll be a great tool if implemented properly. I don't want you to get the wrong impression. And trust me, I'm teaching myself how to use #if and #switch while putting together a template to standardize background colors in infoboxes, so I know the effort that's gone into it. I'm afraid that if we don't roll out your template like how I stated, there will be some backlash. You don't know how those Yankee fans can get... ;) Cheers, Caknuck 04:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. -- Basar (talk · contribs) 05:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Geophysical engineering

An article that you have been involved in editing, Geophysical engineering, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Geophysical engineering. Thank you. (yes, I know you haven't worked on it, but this is the best template I could find.) Argyriou (talk) 16:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Bird Lists

I think that templating the family descriptions is a great idea. Among other things it would help get rid of my numerous typos all in one fell swoop. I'm afraid that the only support I can offer is moral, as I don't understand templates. I like the idea of including the worldwide stats for species numbers. I had actually considered abandoning that part of the description because of the difficulty involved in keeping the lists current as species were discovered, split and lumped. Can the template be multi-level in some way. The state lists had a "X species world-wide, Y species in North America and Z species in the state" format. Would keeping that require multiple templates per family (Anatidae:North America, Anatidae:Europe, etc) or could it be done with a single template? Dsmdgold 04:04, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I think you should bring it up a WP:BIRD if you haven't already. (I was really filling gaps and don't have a big investment in those articles) Yomangani^talk 00:06, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Robert E. Kennedy (Cal Poly)

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Houston, Texas

Sorry, didn't realize that you moved the ref up. Thanks! Postoak 05:06, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Fibre Reinforced Concrete - Unacceptable Links

Basar, Thank you for your comments relating to my attempts to add links to the FRC article. I fully appreciate your thoughts about Wikipedia not simply being a directory of links or being used for advertising. The link that I attached was to our website which is entirely about fibre reinforcement but I do understand your concern that this could be construed as advertising. However, this is no different to the current Link 1) which is on the same page. I refer to the link to http://www.adfil.co.uk/docs/templates/news.asp?monthid=6&yearid=2004. Whilst the information on this page does refer to Fibres in Tunnel construction it is also advertising that particular company. If you have rules then it must be the same for all and I would therefore respectfully request that this link is also deleted.

In relation to my Image:PP Fibres & Explosive Spalling.pdf would this be acceptable if the advert (Which was in the same Magazine) was removed?

I look forward to receiving your comments.

Regards

Trevor —Preceding unsigned comment added by TrevorWatkinson (talk • contribs) 21:00, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Carolina Birds

Thanks for helping out there, terrific job. Nick mallory 06:42, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Parodies of Harry Potter

As a Project editor involved in our little restructuring drive, you may be interested in commenting on the Parodies of Harry Potter article, which was recently formed in a controversial five-way merge with four individual articles and one list. The discussion may be viewed here. Happy-melon 20:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Notable civil engineers

Why get rid of the link to WP:Notable? That made sense. - Denimadept 21:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure linking to the Wikipedia namespace is "kosher" in articles. Correct me if I'm wrong. -- Basar (talk · contribs) 21:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea, but I wouldn't have thought it to be a problem. - Denimadept 12:02, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar

It's always good to know my work is appreciated! Walton^One 13:09, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Category engineering is way too big

Wikipedia considers engineering a problem category because it is way too big. You look through it and see what you can remove. For example, Building materials was in it. so was every single building project in the world. What do you thing should be removed so it won't be way too big like it is now? I welcome suggestions. Regards, --Mattisse 23:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Look at [[Category:Wikipedia categories in need of attention]] and see what you think. I will leave Engineering alone as I do not care whether it is too big or not. I was just being altruistic, which is always a mistake! --Mattisse 23:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Because I do not think all Building projects, or all European building projects and other general categories should go under Engineering. That is why the Category is so enormous. It dwarfs all the other categories that are too large. Engineer was on all Audio broadcasting articles, every article under Acoustics, almost every article on Physics, all the articles on Tools etc. Even little boats were in Engineering. It is actually comical. I don't think engineers, or who every categorizes their articles, understand Categories and how they work. It is dysfunctional. Engineering articles end up in off-the-wall categories. Try it. But I will lay off Engineering. --Mattisse 23:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Categories

I will give you an example from Psychology because that is what I know. There is an article and a Category in Psychology called Mood disorders. The article and Category are in Category:Psychology. If I take an article like Depressive disorder, all I need to do is put it in Mood disorders. From there it automatically goes into Psychology or the relevant sub categories in Psychology. If additionally I add Category:Psychology to Depressive disorder then it will also end up in the general uncategorized articles in Category:Psychology, bulking up the uncategorized pages for no good reason. When you have hundreds of articles uncategorized in Engineering, and really, too too many sub categories, no one is going to look through all that. It harms Wikipedia, which is why Category:Engineering is considered a problem category.

I have removed many whole categories from Engineering, like all the Aviation awards were under Engineering, all the Physics awards etc. etc. Everything that had anything to do with Mathematics or Physics or Optics was under Engineering. Those are just examples. Do you think that every article that has anything to do with Bridges should also be under Engineering? --Mattisse 00:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Wrong diff

You must have sent the wrong diff [1] as that was not my edit. But in any event, I will do no more. Regards, --Mattisse 00:24, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I check the history on Matrix stiffness method. I have not edited that article at all, for the record. Regards, --Mattisse 00:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Project page redesign

I'm going to ask the Final Fantasy and Square-Enix people if we can do that with our project pages. If they agree, and you do it for us, I'll give you a barnstar :) Thoughts? Judgesurreal777 16:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Sure, I'll help you out, but I'm sure there are people there who can do it too as it isn't very difficult. – Basar (talk · contribs) 04:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Hey Basar, I removed that formatting thing because, in Safari, there was no scrolling thing – it just kept going while that green line interrupted it in the middle. I just now tried opening the page in Firefox, and I see the difference. Could we ask the WP:VPT why it won't work in Safari? --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 17:01, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Just curious if you can see the scrolling here: {{Scroll box}}. If you can't, then I think it is just a feature that Safari hasn't implemented yet, and I doubt there would be anything we can do about it. – Basar (talk · contribs) 04:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

(sorry for the delayed response) Yes, I can see the scroll box there. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 01:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, I modified it slightly, let me know if it works. – Basar (talk · contribs) 02:09, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Question regarding posting my own images

Thanks for taking the lead on so many geotech topics. I also asked this of Αργυριου (talk) and please also forgive this request if you don't think it appropriate. I don't know how to do it, but would like to contribute the pictures I've taken of different CPT rigs both in Europe and the U.S. and donate them to the public domain on the CPT page. They are uploaded at my website http://www.mngeoservices.com/image. I don't want (or need) to advertise here (which is why I posted this on your talk page rather than CPT talk), so feel free to remove this request if you like. The pictures are of trucks from a number of different companies, so once again, no advertising motive. Can you help me out? Thanks in advance, Drillerguy 14:26, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh it's completely appropriate, and your pictures would be much appreciated. I created a category on the commons for CPT, so just create an account on the commons [2], follow the upload file link on the left hand side, follow the instructions, and put the images in the [[Category:Cone penetration testing]]. Once that is done, the pictures can be put onto the CPT article or any other article on any wikiproject. Cheers! – Basar (talk · contribs) 16:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Knockturn Alley

Hi Basar, Was there a discussion to redirect this page that I missed? faithless (^speak) 22:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah, nevermind. :P faithless (^speak) 22:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I have to rescind my nevermind. I thought I'd be able to find the discussion, but no luck. Could you point me towards it? Thanks! :) faithless (^speak) 22:49, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Sure, when we first started the discussions, we had Happy-melon make a list of articles that he/she thought everyone would agree on merging. A few people approved of the list, no one objected, so the list was added to the merge template. – Basar (talk · contribs) 23:05, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Places in Harry Potter

Hey, yeah, I realized that, I'll move it back. Sorry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Batboy (talk • contribs) 23:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Buckaroo

Points go to you. You were correct. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 16:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Harry Potter template

Is there a reason the links I fixed in the template were reverted as well? At the moment, there is a separate characters template, so it does not make sense to but a random selection of characters into this template (Why are only a portion of them from the other template included?) Also, what is the reason for removing the many links you removed when re-doing the template? For example, Harry Potter Trading Card Game, Spells, etc? --musicpvm 22:08, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't realize you fixed any links since I just looked at your edit summary [add: and mis-read, sorry]. The reason for link switching is, for the most part, due to a re-organization effort under way at WP:HP/N. Right now everything is in a state of flux, so it isn't perfect. I decided to start the change now because the old ones were getting a little out of date, and we would be soon finished with our re-organization effort, within a week or two. I also felt the new template was a little better organized and would start to concentrate attention to articles we are definitely keeping. The trading card game removal was an editorial decision by me in the way I organized the template. I felt that the major Harry Potter works (book and films, I don't know about the games) should be included as well as the analysis and impact of those works. I think a discussion on inclusion criteria would be appropriate. If you familiarize yourself with the situation at WP:HP/N and still want to change it, feel free, but I wouldn't recommend putting much effort into it because it will date quickly. – Basar (talk · contribs) 22:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply and the link to WP:HP/N. I wasn't aware of all the discussions at that page; I'll look them over. --musicpvm 00:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Clay

Hi. I have reverted your change as your edit is about clay from a very specific. As I noted in my change clay is not a soil. Soil may contain clays, but clay is not a soil. Please do not change this. It may be useful to add extra an extra section from another perspective but it is incorrect to state that cay is simply a soil. Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.127.176 (talk) 22:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I have changed it back but removed the term soil as you are probably correct since that word is not used in the journal article I used to write it. Using reliable sources to backup claims is generally a good idea. – Basar (talk · contribs) 22:55, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Using reliable sources to backup claims is generally a good idea. So is experience, and a wide understanding of other disciplines :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.127.176 (talk) 23:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't seem like any of your changes were supported by the two sources you provided. Those sources talked about clay minerals and the classification of different kinds of clay minerals. If you read Guggenheim and Martin (1995), you will see that the term clay is distinct from the term clay minerals. – Basar (talk · contribs) 01:39, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Please add to the article and not remove from the article. That defintion I have replaced is not mine. It is one that has developed over time from the contributions of a number of editors. It recognises that clay is a group of minerals, surely this is something you must know. Your college course appears to be teaching you a very specific meaning of clay, but it is one that does not have the sole place here. If yu have something of value then include it, but do not remove others of value. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.127.176 (talk) 02:10, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

What are your specific concerns about the definition I have provided? – Basar (talk · contribs) 02:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

If your only concern is that it should say "clay is a group of minerals", you have to ask yourself, are you wrong or is the International Association for the Study of Clays and the Clay Mineral Society's joint report on the definition of clay presented in a peer reviewed academic journal called "Clays and Clay Minerals" wrong. – Basar (talk · contribs) 02:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I have no concerns about your defintions. I have very big concerns that you are removing contributions of value and replacing with a text from a very narrow perspective. I think your understanding is more in keeping with The Wenworth scale and Unified Soil Classification System. Please be assured I am not looking for a battle here, but you are wrong to insist on removing the description of clay as being a group of minerals. The article can include understandings from different disciplines.

It is also worth noting that:

• To be consistent with your selected understanding you are going to remove a lot of text from the article which many otehrs have contributed, and has stayed there by agreement for a long time.
• That material that no one would describe as clay, say quartz, exists at particle sizes which fit within the range of your defintion, and therefore would be classed by this as clay. Obviously quartz is not clay - as others have said "size isn't everthing!"

And no I am not saying your quoted source is wrong. I am saying that it is from one perspective. Use it to add to the article but is is not the only understanding.

What is this other perspective you are referring to? Why should I believe what you have to say when you are an anonymous internet user, do you have a reliable source? The definition I have provided does not use size alone to define clay; it is one of several parts to the definition. I replaced unsourced material with sourced material—that is a good thing; you have also removed other people's contributions. You say you do not have a problem with my source but want to be broader, well you have overwritten my source and writing and have replaced it with contradictory language without a source. Lastly, the "International Association for the Study of Clays" and the "Clay Mineral Society" do not sound like narrow, one-sided sources to me. They sound like the most general and authoritative source that we could possibly find. – Basar (talk · contribs) 03:03, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I am simply asking that you use your sources to add to the article. Pleae do not remove useful text. Yes I have removed some text. This was an attempt to replace agreed text and form a bed for further input. I have noted that you should use you sources to add to the article. And please do not start slinging around such as "why should I believe what you have to say when you are an anonymous internet user" as I could easily counter with suggestions that as a college student you have very limited knowledge or experience of clay. No I have yet to register, I happened across this article whilst surfing. To date it does confirm the common criticism of Wikipedia. I may register, and this may then better allow me to bring my years of experience and qualifications to bear. I noted earlier that I was not interested in a battle. I only want to make the article of use, and using a single persepective will not do this. Again please add to the article.

How about you answer my questions instead of attacking me personally. – Basar (talk · contribs) 05:02, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Please re-read what I wrote. I was not attacking your personnally. It was you who started being antagonistic by writing "why should I believe what you have to say when you are an anonymous internet user". My response was to illustrate how your discussion technique could easily be counter productive. I started the dialogue, and have been consistently been polite throughout. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.65.237 (talk) 05:10, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

That is not antagonistic, that is the reason Wikipedia requires verification. Everyone is essentially anonymous, including me. Discrediting what I have to say because I am a college student instead of the validity of my arguments is a personal attack. You have still not answered my questions. – Basar (talk · contribs) 05:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I was not discrediting you. If you re-read what I have written you will see I have encouraged you to add to the article. A review of the discussion will also reveal that none of my comments have been a personal attack on you. One response was to illustrate how antagonistic techniques would be counter productive. I ask you not to make unfounded accusations about personal attacks. I also ask you to engage in constructive & mature dialogue, and add to the article rather than removing valuable text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.65.237 (talk) 05:26, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

(break) Veiling your criticism around a hypothetical does not expunge it. You have in several instances inferred that your opinion is superior to mine because of your experience and because of my age. This is not acceptable. Furthermore, you are asking me to engage in a constructive dialog, which I have. It is you who have yet to provide any substantive argument about the definition of clay. You have still not stated what this other perspective is you refer to, nor have you provided any verification. Verification is the way that Wikipedia works. You have also repeatedly asked me to only add to the article rather than remove entires. This is also not the way Wikipedia works. Any editor may challenge and remove any material if it is unreferenced per WP:V. Many editors come here and do not understand the culture and norms Wikipedia has, and since that is understandable, I try to help these editors adjust, but you are being rather difficult. I am not going to continue this conversation after this message if you cannot show at least some effort to follow the official policies of Wikipedia that I have tried to explain to you. – Basar (talk · contribs) 06:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

It is your choice to interpret my comments such as speculating on hiding meanings, but it is just that: speculation. However I have twice noted these were not belittling you, and more thn once I have encouraged you to add to the article. I am rather tired of your repeated and unfounded accusations. Please let it go and move on.

Do you realise how arrogant this statement sounds: "I try to help these editors adjust, but you are being rather difficult."

Also please do not lecture about what is acceptable, especially when it is unfounded. Where are these several instances me claiming my opinion is superior? Again this is speculation. Please keep to facts.

Verification? References were given, but you criticised them despite them supporting the text you removed. The removed text did not plagiarise the references but if they were read and understood it would be clear they were legitimate support. I had also noted I did not dispute what you had included, if the other valuable text was not removed, but a more recognised technique is to use references and not simply copy them verbatim.

Perhaps it is good that you will not continue this conversation. Not because I apparently "cannot show at least some effort to follow the official policies" but as it appears you engage in debate based on speculation, conjecture and misinterpretation rather than facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.65.237 (talk) 06:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

FL Main page proposal

You either nominated a WP:FLC or closed such a nomination this year. As such, you are the type of editor whose opinion I am soliciting. We now have over 400 featured lists and seem to be promoting in excess of 30 per month of late (41 in August and 42 in September). When Today's featured article (TFA) started (2004-02-22), they only had about 200 featured articles and were barely promoting 20 new ones per month. I think the quality of featured lists is at least as good as the quality of featured articles was when they started appearing on the main page. Thus, I am ready to open debate on a proposal to institute a List of the Day on the main page with nominations starting November 1 2007, voting starting December 1 2007 and main page appearances starting January 1 2008. For brevity, the proposal page does not discuss the details of eventual main page content, but since the work has already been done, you should consider this proposal assuming the eventual main page will resemble either an excerpted list format or an abbreviated text format. The proposal page does not debate whether starting with weekly list main page entries would be better than daily entries. However, I suspect persons in favor of weekly lists are really voicing opinions against lists on the main page since neither TFA nor Picture of the day started as weekly endeavors, to the best of my knowledge. Right now debate seems to be among support for the current selective democratic/consensus based proposal, a selective dictatorial approach like that used at WP:TFA or a non-selective first in line/calendar approach like that used at WP:POTD. See the List of the Day proposal and comment at WP:LOTDP and its talk page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Baseball Stats Template

Hey, let me know when you return from your wikibreak -- I have a question about the Baseballstats template. Thanks! --DNL 13:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Featured List of the Day Experiment

There have been a series of proposals to initiate a Featured List of the Day on the main page. Numerous proposals have been put forth. After the third one failed, I audited all WP:FL's in order to begin an experiment in my own user space that will hopefully get it going. Today, it commences at WP:LOTD. Afterwards I created my experimental page, a new proposal was set forth to do a featured list that is strikingly similar to my own which is to do a user page experimental featured list, but no format has been confirmed and mechanism set in place. I continue to be willing to do the experiment myself and with this posting it commences. Please submit any list that you would like to have considered for list of the day in the month of January 2008 by the end of this month to WP:LOTD and its subpages. You may submit multiple lists for consideration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TonyTheTiger (talk • contribs) 19:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

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WP:LOTD/WP:LOTM

Congratulations List of California birds has been selected as a July WP:LOTD. It will appear in the WP:LOTD template for one day as an LOTD. If you have any preference on a days during July let me know before June 24th. If you have any other lists that you feel should be nominated next month please ad them at User:TonyTheTiger/List of the Day/Nominees/200808.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

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Sanpaz

Hey Basar, sorry to see that you are not hanging around anymore in Wikipedia. I kind of read the discussion you were having in the Soils page. I hope you are just taking a break and not leaving for good. I'll see you around Sanpaz (talk) 00:20, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Harry Potter articles and Notability

Hey there!! I come to invite you to join a discussion still regarding HP articles and notability, as you were one of the most active editors when the big mergers took place (for example all the Hogwarts teachers or the Weasley family members). I came with this proposal to merge Neville and Luna into the Dumbledore's Army article because, like some other important characters we merged in the past (McGonagall, the Weasley twins, Lupin, Moody, Umbridge), these two have not met notability, or at least their articles are way too poor, especially if compared to other important (and indeed notable) characters like the trio, Snape or Voldemort. These pages remain as short, plot appearances only articles, with lots of in-universe and overdetailed scenes and dialogues.

I made This draft to give you an idea of how this article would look like with the changes. Cheers! --LøЯd ۞pεth 22:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

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POTD

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