Bodhimeister

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Johannes Plendl

Hi Bodhimeister, I've reverted your edit to the article on Johannes Plendl because, given the circumstances of the time, it seems too euphemistic to say that he merely "contacted the Allies" rather than "surrendered".

Regarding the statement "Plendl worked with other scientific teams developing the new German "wonder weapons", most notably the V-1 and V-2 rockets." which you deleted - this has been a part of the article since it was first created in February 2006. If you know that this statement is questionable, you could have placed a "Citation needed" tag, rather than deleting it. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 05:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Please do not add original research or novel syntheses of published material to articles. Please cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Thank you.

Hi Bodhimeister, I've again reverted your most recent edits to the article on Johannes Plendl because of the reasons given previously. Re your statement "According to interviews with his family ..." - to substantiate any potentially controversial edits you make, you will have to supply an appropriate, verifiable reference for them to be accepted, otherwise they will be viewed as either your own original research or personal opinion, and challenged by other editors. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 12:25, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

==Johannes Plendl - inaccuracies== HI, I am new to Wikipedia, but I am trying to correct inaccuracies on the page for my grandfather Dr. Johann Plendl. I have talked with my father extensively about his work and he says that Johann Plendl did not work on the V-1 or V-2 rockets. There was no citation when this inaccuracy was originally on the page. I don't have a citation saying that Dr. Plendl did not work on the rockets, since i can't cite a negative. If there is a citation saying that he did, it needs to be on the page, otherwise that paragraph should be taken out or rewritten. I have done extensive research in graduate school and interviews with people connected with events are of course accepted. Please let me know more on how I can edit this article so that it is accurate. As I said, this is my Grandfather, I am Konrad Plendl, and our family wants it to be accurate. For now I have taken out the paragraph claiming that he developed the V-1 and V-2. I also took out the reference to the space race, which didn't start until 10 years after the war, and, again which he had nothing to do with. He was a radar and radio scientist, not a rocket scientist. I will research this as I have time, but books and references to him are rare and it will take time to track down the correct references. --Bodhimeister Bodhimeister (talk) 13:36, 9 July 2011 (UTC) :Hi Bodhimeister, as you are new to Wikipedia, please note that the convention for adding comments to talk pages in general, is to add them below any previous messages (and please remember to also to use the Edit Summary line when making edits). :I've moved your comment to me back to your own Talk page, as I have been watching it since leaving my original comments here. This enables the continuity of the discussion thread to be maintained, in case anyone else wants to join in. :Regarding the Johannes Plendl article, there are a number of points to consider. Most importantly for Wikipedia, one of the main criteria for WP inclusion is verifiability not truth. :However, there are some other WP policies which might apply. :When the first version of the article was created in 2006 (by a WP editor who is no longer active), it listed three references and contained the sentence: During the later days of World War II, Plendl worked on the teams developing other German "wonder weapons," most notably the V-1 and V-2 rockets. In 1944, Adolf Hitler removed Plendl from his post and replaced him with Plendl's mentee, Werner Von Braun. :The V2 article states Some later V-2s used "guide beams" (radio signals transmitted from the ground) to keep the missile on course, but the first models used a simple analog computer ..., and as guide beams were Plendl's specialty, it does seem quite possible that he was consulted at some stage on this work, even if he didn't have any greater involvement. :The article has never contained inline citations, so it is not possible to ascertain upon which of these sources the text was based, without consulting them again - and that's something that I'm not in a position to do myself. :As Johannes Plendl died almost 20 years ago the policy on Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons doesn't apply directly, but when referring to deceased persons, it does state: But questionable material about dead people which has implications for their living relatives and friends, particularly in the case of recent deaths, should be removed promptly. The Plendl article makes no reference at all to any relatives, and it is unclear from your comments whether Plendl's wartime research has any current negative implications for his living relatives. :As you have identified yourself as Plendl's grandson, that does place you in a Conflict of interest, which means that you do have to be careful in how you edit the page. For example, as I've pointed out earlier, some of your earlier edits have tended towards euphemism. :At this stage I consider that per WP policy I may have to continue to revert your edits, until you can provide some alternative text based on reliable and verifiable sources. (And if I don't do it, then some other editor will probably do it instead - that's just the nature of this place.) :In the meantime, there are some things that you can do, such as: 1). placing a "Citation needed" template ( ) after any statements you consider dubious or incorrect; 2). using the article's Talk page to discuss any matters that you want to raise about the article. Either of these actions will get the attention of any editors who have the article on their watchlists and may have more knowledge on this subject. :One way of getting a faster response may be to: 3). go to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fact and Reference Check and make a request there. :In the meantime I'll also run this past an admin, to see if there's anything that I have missed. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 18:20, 9 July 2011 (UTC) Sorry that I didn't know the correct way to reply, I will discuss this with you on here from now on. I have a background in academic research and have several degrees, and I understand the need to use reliable sources and references. I find it difficult to see why you choose to believe something that was written here several years ago over what relatives of the subject of an article know about him. If there are reliable sources that say that he worked on the V-1 and V-2, then cite them and repost what was there before, otherwise I don't see why you feel the need to cling to a statement that is not cited, while asking me for citation. My father says that he has several books that contain references to Dr. Plendl's work, and I will study them and use them to document what he was doing at that time. Also, the German article on Dr. Plendl (I can read German) on wikipedia.de does not mention any connection with the German rocket program, which bolsters my argument. And the V-1 and the V-2 (A-4) articles in English and German make no reference to him. There were many people working on radar, radio and guidance of rockets in Germany at the time, so saying that he 'might' have been one of them is pure speculation on your part and not good research. As you said, Dr. Plendl has been dead for about 20 years, and the war is long over, but his family does want the article to be accurate. I would request that you leave the questionable paragraph out, since it has no citations, until I have the books that I need to provide full citation of what Dr. Plendl was doing later in the war. I don't want to start a 'flame war' but like yourself I would like the article to be correct and historically accurate. Thank You, Konrad Plendl

Hi Bodhimeister, I've just added a template to the Johannes Plendl page requesting inline citations, and a new section on the article's talk page, with a link to the discussion here.

Please note that starting on a new line creates a new paragraph, and preceding it with a colon will indent the paragraph, and two or more colons will progressively indent each paragraph, making it easier to follow each contribution to the discussion thread.

Please also note that other articles in Wikipedia, or its sister wikis in other languages, can't be used as reliable sources (see WP:CIRCULAR). Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 04:29, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

OK. I have found several books on the development of beam guidance systems during the war that I am looking through now. There are several errors in the current form of the article that I am working on correcting, but I will make sure that all corrections are cited. I am using the German version of this article for research and leads to sources, but won't cite it when making any changes. I am busy with several things, so it may take a few days, thank you for assistance. Bodhimeister (talk) 11:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)