CharlesDennisHunter

September 2020

Hello, I'm Materialscientist. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Clan Hunter, but you didn't provide a source. I’ve removed it for now, but if you’d like to include a citation to a reliable source and re-add it, please do so! If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Materialscientist (talk) 14:39, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Welcome!

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Your thread has been archived

Hi CharlesDennisHunter! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, Re writing an entire entry, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to . The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:03, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Clan Hunter (September 27)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Clan Hunter and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Clan Hunter, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Theroadislong (talk) 13:16, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello, CharlesDennisHunter! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Theroadislong (talk) 13:16, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Clan Hunter

As you have a clear conflict of interest with regards to this article you are limited to making edit requests on the talk page Talk:Clan Hunter in the form of please change x to y with a supporting independent reliable source for verification. Theroadislong (talk) 16:22, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

You will wish to use {{Request edit}} to draw proper attention to your request. Fiddle Faddle 16:29, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Clan Hunter has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Clan Hunter. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 13:42, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your email

I only ever comment "on wiki" for reasons of transparency. The rules preclude me from quoting your email here to answer it. You may post it here if you choose or on my talk page if you prefer. If here please include the text {{Ping|Timtrent}} and sign your post with ~~~~ at the same time, which will alert me to your post. If you feel Commons is more approriate please do the post there. Fiddle Faddle 16:11, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Indeed, unless you reveal the contents of the email I mayn't allow others to infer from my reply what you might have written.

I can say clearly (as I will say to any editor) that any guidance you ask me for I will give to you freely and willingly. My objective is your success. I can also say, as (I will to any editor) that I am unlikely to take any task from your shoulders, but will teach you to fish rather than giving you a fish. Fiddle Faddle 16:41, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

@Timtrent: Thank you for your response. I appreciate the time you have taken to consider this matter. C CharlesDennisHunter (talk) 18:08, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

I am aware from the draft that you wish to rewrite in some manner the extant article. As I see it you have one possible and one impossible route.

• It will be impossible (0.99 probability) to replace the extant article with the draft.
• It is possible that the information in the draft may be merged into the extant article

The thing that militates against your doing it is conflict or interest coupled with a 'request' from your sister the clan chief. According to Wikipedia rules this invalidates edits you make directly to the extant article, unless they are incontrovertible matters of simple fact. Indeed, it is very important that you declare this conflict of interest, and a good mechanism is to deploy {{UserboxCOI}} on your user page.

What I think we can do is that I can put in a merge request, draft to extant, for consideration by interested editors. I will consider that and get back to you Fiddle Faddle 18:15, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

After consideration I have made that request, which you will see at the head of each article. Your approach might be thus:

1. Ensure your COI is declared, perhaps as I have suggested
2. When you participate in the discussion please set aside any and all feelings of right and wrong, Any argument you make must be calm, quiet, and proportional. In other words you must be seeking to build consensus, not to 'have your way'
3. Do not suggest matters that would be approved of by the clan chief nor disapproved of by her. Wikipedia editors hackles rise at that type of input

I think that is probably the best set of services I can do for you. Remember, please, that Wikipedia works on consensus and on verifiable facts, ideally verified in secondary sources Fiddle Faddle 18:28, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

@Timtrent: Thank you for the offer of assistance and your advice. At the moment I feel I am drowning in the complexity of what I thought would be a simple process but is rapidly turning into something quite different. I believe that it may be possible to contact the writer of the original page whom was helping my sister at the time as one option. With regard to your suggestions: Obviously (easy as a novice) I made a mistake in mentioning the position I was coming from which clearly triggered reactions. If I had more experience then obviously this would not have happened. Yes absolutely I agree that my CoI should be declared. I will try to follow the suggested route to achieve this. I originally set up Clan Hunter between 1983-89 and consider that my historical knowledge is of a high standard. However, if I am not to be considered a reliable source then what path forward is available? You will have seen the draft and may judge for yourself. Obviously it is intended as a draft at this stage and open to rewriting. I have also tried to format it along the lines of other Clan Societies so as to conform as much as possible. C CharlesDennisHunter (talk) 18:38, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

CharlesDennisHunter, It was essential to mention COI, not an error at all. It almost always is discovered if it is not mentioned. Do not regret it, simply formalise it. You need to be above reproach. Were you not then it would all go to hell in a handbasket. You probably start to understand why I view transparency as important.

If your historical knowledge has been reported on by secondary sources then those facts become correctly verified. If any paper you have written about the clan has been peer reviewed (as in Academic review) then it becomes a useful source.

Wikipedia is a very challenging place to write for. The thing that causes the most perplexity is that WP:RS are required for facts. Wikipedia will report Black as White if the only RS sources say so. It is not at all concerned with truth, simply with facts

For a person in your position, holding a reservoir of subject knowledge, this will be extraordinarily frustrating. Fiddle Faddle 19:17, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Clan Hunter has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Clan Hunter. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 18:51, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

@Timtrent: The difficulty I have is that all of the historical research undertaken by me over the past 40 years has not been in any appropriate format for academic publication. It was all undertaken to refresh existing material from all available sources but only for Clan society consumption. Primarily this was family records but also some professional research was undertaken for me in the 1980s where National records were involved (e.g. Glasgow Church Records, Exchequer Rolls, etc.). Thanks for the advice about the CoI. I hope I entered it correctly. I shall work on the copyright issues tomorrow (I am in Australia). All the photos I put up are mine but the heraldic artwork comes from a 3rd party (Lord Lyon's Office) although I commissioned it and own the copyright. I'm getting used to being frustrated! C CharlesDennisHunter (talk) 19:38, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Almost! I migrated it to the draft talk page. Don't forget your own User page

At least with the pictures you can use the OTRS systems on Commons to solve the copyright issues. Their rules are very strict indeed.

I've no idea how to proceed on the research made by and for you personally, by which I mean I have no idea how to make it work for you. By definition it is WP:PRIMARY or WP:SELFPUB, both of which are allowed in limited ways Fiddle Faddle 19:50, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

I have just realised I needed to create an entry on Wikipedia:Proposed article mergers, and have done so. Now we await the community's pleasure. Fiddle Faddle 16:42, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

@Timtrent: Thank you Timtrent. I left a message on my User page. So much to learn with this. I have emailed Commons over the heraldic art and wait response. I have also just discovered https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Clans_of_Scotland/Templates It never stops! I shall be away for 2 weeks Tues at work. Unfortunately there is no internet on Koolan Island. C CharlesDennisHunter (talk) 16:46, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Clan Hunter

Hello, CharlesDennisHunter. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Clan Hunter, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Draft space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for article space.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion under CSD G13. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it. You may request userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available here.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 14:05, 13 May 2021 (UTC)