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Thanks mate. I'll have a look. Can't see it going through though. They'll say it's a notable concept that was part of Mussolini's thoughts and plans. I agree the content is awful though. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 17:06, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Congratulations on your successful deletion of this article. Where next? 619 in Ireland? Andy Dingley (talk) 09:47, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
- This unilateral action is really out of order (and it’s not the first time either)
- This is not the way we should do things
- As the outcome is probably what I would have sought, I do not want my name attached to this kind of high-handedness
- What you need to do is put things back the way they were, make a statement of intent, and set a reasonable deadline.
- Xyl 54 (talk) 17:01, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you for that; I really didn't want to fall out over this. I've posted there as well, now. Xyl 54 (talk) 11:06, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Buddy, both of these 'users' [1] [2] are PIO. Revert on sight. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 19:06, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'm getting together an RFCU now. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 19:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
My name is Luigi. I can send to you my real name, my address and my telephone number. I don't know who is that PIO!--Luigi 28 (talk) 18:07, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I first found it here http://srpskaistorija.livejournal.com/tag/serbian+nazi+cellaboration+massacre+of+m
But there are ceveral sites where all this is mentioned.
If you have some excess to OKW you can simply find it there.--(GriffinSB) (talk) 22:28, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
You're welcome.I'll try to find everything about the OKW tommarow.--(GriffinSB) (talk) 00:10, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't mind at all. This matter (directly referring to you, by the way - a starring role, indeed), is already at WP:AN/I, subheading 'Violation'. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 14:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello,
I have left a message on the talk page for Gavrilo Princip and would be very grateful if you could spare a few moments to read it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip
Thanks for your time.
harris 578 (talk) 20:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Mrg3105 has requested comment on the use of either 'Narodnoe Opolchenyie' or People's Militia for the Soviet 'home guard' divisions of World War II on this page. I'd appreciate your input. Personally I believe he is wrong, as WP:UE would indicate the use of People's Militia - and David Glantz has confirmed this as the correct English translation. Regards Buckshot06(prof) 00:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
The May 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:23, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Be careful DIREKTOR, you have actually reverted some good quality edits, of him and other anons. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
- :D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
- look this and this :) --Rjecina 05:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.91.99.205 (talk)
What kind of sources do you prefer? If you want, I can send to you two or three sources for every one name of City Mayor of Fiume: Internet sources (three of my prevous sources was from the Croatian site of Tourist Associtation of Rijeka, another one from the Historic Institute of Zagreb!!!!) or some books. You have some BIG, BIG problems with the historical sources. Here you can read my article about negationism of Holocaust[3]. Credo di poterti insegnare qualcosa che tu proprio non sai capire.--Luigi 28 (talk) 14:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I reverted the voice. Please, see the discussion page (with all the sources).--Luigi 28 (talk) 18:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
- Boys, the voice Istrian exodus today has 23 notes:
- 1. In Italian
- 2. In Italian and in Slovene
- 3/17. In English
- 18. Not found
- 19. In English
- 20. It's a map
- 21. In English
- 22. In Italian
- 23. In Italian
- 24. In Italian
- 25. In Croatian
- 26. In Italian (my source: the Treaty of Osimo)
- 27. In Italian (my source: a legal expertise about properties in ex Jugoslavia)
- 28/31. In English
- 32. In English (my source)
- If you go in the talk page, you can find the explanation and translation of my sources (26, 27 and 32) in English[4].
- Now: you wrote your regular false, about my sources. But you have to reverte the 1., 2., 18., 21., 22., 23., 24. and 25 edits!
Now I can respond your question: I'm a man.--Luigi 28 (talk) 13:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Absolutely: NO WAY! I'll revert everything!--Luigi 28 (talk) 17:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- I've seen your last edit of my talk page. Please, tell me: who wrote this words: "Luigi, like PIO, sees Wikipedia not as an encyclopedia but as a battleground, almost exclusively editing articles about Istria and Dalmatia, removing references that Italians may have been born in Istria or Dalmatia"? Is this a relevant info for the sockpuppeteering report? Also my defence. Another question: who wrote this: "If the question is 'incredibly smart or incredibly stupid', I'd go for option B"? I'm not PIO (and YOU know it) and I'm waiting for the check.--Luigi 28 (talk) 15:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- I don't like to repeat the same things, but for the last time: I want that an Admin (or two, three, four...) can see the personal war that you and mr Aladstair are conducting against me, only because you think I'm PIO. Do you like my last edit in Istria? I've spent more than three days to prepare it, and I think that is a very good job. What do you think about this[5]? Only Croatian sources, without ANY kind of translation, without ANY kind of English link... What a baaaaaad job,
Ivan--Luigi 28 (talk) 19:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- ...and what about my edit of Istria? Do you like it? And the 'very bad job of History of Dalmatia? It's very sad to see that the rules that you want for me, for you are nothing. La calunnia, è un venticeeeeello! (G.Rossini, Barbiere di Siviglia)[6]. Do you know this immortal masterpiece?--Luigi 28 (talk) 19:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Look here[7]. You understand Italian, don't you, my highly intelligent friend?--Luigi 28 (talk) 19:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Mate, don't worry, there's a very good reason he's adopted such aggressive and poisonous tactics, as he well knows himself. It's made the SSP a very long report that looks like two sides arguing, but it'll come down to a check user report anyway. If he's edited from home on any occasion, as for sure he has from the evidence, then there's nothing his yelling and obfuscation can do to save him. As to when it'll get resolved, could be a day or two yet. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 18:30, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I have opened a thread at the Administrators' Noticeboard that directly concerns you. See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Request_for_more_eyes_on_and_a_speedy_close_to_Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets.2FPIO_.283rd.29.
AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 22:12, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- Well Pax, you've single-handedly ruined my whole userpage concept. I have no idea where I'm gonna fit this thing! :P Thanx man :D
- --DIREKTOR (TALK) 19:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I've seen your last reversion of my edits [8]. Did I want to point out that in the same voice Pola...sorry: Pula are still present some bad Italian names to delete: Monte Zaro, Monte Serpente, Monte Ghiro, Monte Magno, Monte Paradiso, Monte Rizzi, Monte Vidal, Monteserpo, Lungomare, Quarnero, Porta Gemina, Valle, Bagnole, Barbanna (it's a mistake: the Italian name is Barbana), Brioni, Fasana, Gallesano, Lisignano, Medolino, Pomero, Promontore, Sissano, Stignano, Altura, Dignano, Vinkuran (another mistake: the Italian name is Vincural). It's very, very strange that you do not have seen that horrors before. I think that you have also to do something for the very incredible and embarassing Dante's citation: come a Pola, presso del Carnaro ch'Italia chiude e i suoi termini bagna. Hope you enjoy my work for you. Best regards.--Luigi 28 (talk) 18:35, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Help is needed in this article because of Velebit puppet.--Rjecina (talk) 00:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- If you are interested look Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/J. A. Comment . Here is all evidence that he is puppet of banned user Velebit. If he is not puppet I will be blocked because of my revert ban but you can see that nothing is happening :=--Rjecina (talk) 02:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Problem is solved :)--Rjecina (talk) 02:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Small editorial help is needed in article Timeline of Yugoslavian breakup (my last edits).Thanks--Rjecina (talk) 18:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
OK. But I'm out of time at the moment. Anyway, from the first sight, I've seen one little mistake. You noted Trogir, Split and Dubrovnik as "Byzantine" cities with the largest Croatian influence during Medieval. But you fail to note one that had more of it than all these cities together in those ages. It is Zadar. As you know Croatian state was established in the Zadar surrounding and its inland (Ravni Kotari). All earlier royal Croatian cities were first next to Zadar, Nin just a several km's to the west. First inscription (carved in stone) "Dux Croathorum" was found in Šopot 20 km's to the north-east of Zadar. Croatian names were recorded in Zadar from the beginning of 9th century. During 10th Croats already made a majority of the population of all city classes, no doubt - it was ruled by the Croats then, in real sense of meaning. In 13th and 14th the documents have shown that almost all names recorded were Croatian, unlike any other of these cities, it's city where Dalmatian language vanished the most earliest, because of very early Croatization of all Zadar district. Strong Venetization of Zadar began in 15th century and was more accented than elsewhere (Zadar was a thorn in the eye of Venetians). Even that was not enough to destroy Croatian identity of that city (1st Cro novel in 16th century, usage of angular Glagolithics until 18th). However occasions from 19th and 20th century largely influenced modern perception of Zadar as largely Italianized city, mostly due to fanatic Italian propaganda. I've decided to clean up Zadar history for the months ago, but I still didn't do it. Shame on me. Zenanarh (talk) 11:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Chetniks in East Bosnia start to collaborate with Germans AFTER Operation Trio --89.172.193.242 (talk) 15:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Look here, here, and here. --89.172.193.242 (talk) 15:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Axis History Factbook: Black Legion (Croatia)
Feb-Apr 42: the Legion operated independantly during February and early March, and did not participate again in a large. planned anti-partisan sweep until 15 March, when it took up positions at Han Pijesak to anchor the eastern flank of the German 718. Inf. Division. This operation, called "Trio I", employed the Italian divisions "Taureneese", "Pusteria" and "Sassari", as well as the Croatian 3rd and 4th Frontier Battalions and several battalions from the 8th,13th and 15th Infantry Regiments. The Legion was deployed in the strenght of three battalions and a battery of mountain artillery. "Trio I" was the first operation in which the Legion played a dominant role, in that it was primarly responsible for destroying and dispersing the Major Jezdimir Dangić Chetnik force of 4,500 men which infested the area and were the focal point of the sweep. During the operation, which ran until 24 April, the Legion killed many civilians that willingly or unwillingly gave support to the Chetniks and Partiisans. Villages were quickly and silently surrounded, and then set afire by mortar and artillery fire. Those who tried to escape from the inferno, regardless of their age or sex, were mowed down by concetrated rifle and machine gun fire. At the conclusion of the operation, the Legion was used to mop up pockets of resistance to the north of Foča. --89.172.219.161 (talk) 16:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
German-Chetnik relations and Serbian Nazi connection from srpskaistorija (serbian history) Ladislaus Hory und Martin Broszat, "Der Kroatische Ustascha Staat 1941-1945",p.119. refrence to "Bericht des deutschen Kriegsverwaltungscher SS-Gruppenfuehrer Turner vom 16.02.1942 an Himmler: Pers.Stab RFSS, Inst f. Zeitgesch. MA 328, Bl. 6516814ff.
Quote
"Bands operating in East Bosnia also involve, appart from Communists, chetnik bands of the former Col. Mihailovic and Major Jezdimir Dangic... Dangic doesn't want to fight the Wehrmacht and according to the Bericht des Bevoellmaechtingen Komandierenden Generals in Serbien written on 5th of February, this was proved on the field... Major Dangic has made following proposals in the negotiations in Belgrade:
He is willing to secure Eastern Bosnia with his chetniks under following conditions:
1.) that all Ustasha withdraw from this area;
2.) that the Germans army takes over the area;
3.) that the Croatian administration apparatus be made of Serbs, Croats and Muslims.
Based on the former, negotiations were conducted by Komandierenden General in consultation with German ambassador in Zagreb and with Croatian government. They failed because of the objections of the Croatian government, which would not tolerate such reductions to the state's souverenity; Komandieredende General who would not act without their consent, broke off the talks."
Two months after this negotiations, East Bosnia Chetniks were destroyed by Ustasha Black Legion during the Operation Trio. Major Dangić was captured by Germans and sent into POW camp in Poland. --89.172.219.161 (talk) 18:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- What the heck is this??? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
This is apparent evidence that Chetnik forces did not openly collaborate with the Germans during operation TRIO. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 21:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Oh...just saw right now your dispute. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
What? Didn't you - a Croat - know that in your Country the census is done also for mother tongue?!?!?!? How old are you, my little friend? Are you just alive in 2001 (last census in Croatia)? Me, an Italian, are teaching to a real Croat his census!!! In-cre-di-ble!!!
So: listen to me.
- For the Slovenian Census, you can read directly in the link here[9]: Population by mother tongue, municipalities, Slovenia, Census 2002
- For your census: [10] --> released data --> census 2001 --> tables --> population by mother tongue by towns/municipalities --> (scroll down) County of Istria. Voilà! You have your irredentistic source!!! You are really fantastic, my friend!!! Regards from the Adriatic Sea.--Luigi 28 (talk) 21:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Very good Luigi. Why didn't you say so the first time? You see, if your edits are properly sourced, the encyclopedia gets better, and nobody will argue with you. Very useful data for transferring to the Istrian exodus article, too. Excellent work. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 21:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Don't worry, also you are really fantastic!!!--Luigi 28 (talk) 21:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Watch out Alasdair, lest "justice be done upon thee" (fantastico! rotfl) --DIREKTOR (TALK) 22:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
LOL, LOL, and LOL! PIO, you really need to consider how your sentences may sound in English... your attempts at insulting me are the highlight of my day (a touch of self-bashing ;). Ponder on this: I'm so much younger than you, and yet I can speak English while you can't :P Don't lose your temper, all I said was that I want you to properly source your information, since the statistics site is HUGE, and I have good reason to doubt your credibility, you being a suspected sock and all... --DIREKTOR (TALK) 21:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, yes: the Croatian Irredentistic source was beautiful!!! I'm still laughing! But... maybe... all you need is love...--Luigi 28 (talk) 22:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, how... Italian of you. Maybe you do too, if I remember correctly, you're supposed to be "married" in this sock. Croatia does not have any "irredentistic" claims on Italy, we already have everything we could possibly want from you guys :P (thank you, Benito!) --DIREKTOR (TALK) 22:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- You don't understand DIREKTOR,
the Croats are guilty because Istria is a part of the Republic of Croatia. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
? --DIREKTOR (TALK) 22:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- [11]: irredentistic against yourself!!! Please, stop me! I'm laughing and coughing for my young Croatian friend who has everything and is highly intelligent! That's wonderful!!! Oh boys!--Luigi 28 (talk) 22:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Even though I have many friends in Italy, I dare say you are NOT one of them, my old Italian friend. Um, I did not say Croats are "irredentistic" against ourselves, you misunderstood. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 22:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Lmfao. Make it then that it seems that they are guilty because they are born... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- It was a joke...on Luigi...nm. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh yeah, we should have all contracted the plague so that the romantic Italians would not have to slaughter us in concentration camps. Hey! if only the Jews weren't there as well, there wouldn't have been a holocaust :P
Right, I thought it was old PIO, LOL, didn't see the signature --DIREKTOR (TALK) 22:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Pax, pax: you are too wise for me. Please, address your questions to the young and intelligent
Ivan. I'm tired and go to bed. Hi, funny patriots.--Luigi 28 (talk) 22:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
I just figured it out! This guy thought we were arguing! Just what I need, a rabid nationalist preaching inter-Yugoslav tolerance. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 22:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Could I perhaps ask you a favor (I suck at such template-editing)...could you perhaps design a babel for myself? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Sure, the easiest way would be to copy-paste mine and change the parameters (colors, fonts,...) to something you like, how's that? --DIREKTOR (TALK) 22:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- woops, PIO was right about one thing: it is getting late. I'm signing off for today, see ya tomorrow. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 22:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Nm. As I said, I am far too lazy when it comes to template-editing... :-) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- You mean 2:0 :) ? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- !!!!! --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- As for one good news from Serbia, that is this. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 14:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Historija naroda Jugoslavije, Zagreb, Školska knjiga, 1960, Volume II, group of historians (Vladimir Babić, Vaso Čubrilović, Branislav Đurđev, Nedim Filipović, Ferdo Gastrin, Bogo Grafenauer, Nada Klaić, Ljuben Lape, Arpad Lebl, Mitra Mitrović, Fedor Moačanin, Jorjo Tadić and Fran Zwitter).
A huge and absolutely brilliant book in pdf, but watch out - 400 MBs. Thought you'd probably like it. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Nivio Toich is the correct name. Maybe you don't know that not every one -ich is -ić, also in Croatia. Please, see here [12] and look for Toich. Regards, my young Croatian friend.--Luigi 28 (talk) 16:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- In my famili, we have a LOT of Croatian names... but Italian. Do you know Augusto de Marsanich, Mario Jerserinch, Antonio Grossich, Natale Krekich, Enrico Scodnik, Ugo Sirovich? All fascists, my dear. Do you think they were also Croats? Also you in Croatia have a LOT of Italian names... but Croatian. This is the History, my young friend. Maybe you have to read something more, and write something less and a little more slowly.--Luigi 28 (talk) 17:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yaaaaawn. My young Croatian/Dalmatian friend from Zagreb, your words are so... predictable. You seems to me like a broken LP. Do you know the old vinyl LPs, my higly intelligent friend?--Luigi 28 (talk) 18:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- Ohhh! I'm very sorry, my young friend. Split actually is better than Zagreb. I remember very well also this: [13]. You were in the mind of God, maybe.--Luigi 28 (talk) 18:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- If you want, Split in Italian is Spalato, like Zagreb is Zagabria. In Croatian Venice (Venezia) is Venecija. All wonderful words, my young and inexperienced friend!--Luigi 28 (talk) 18:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Of course I know the story of Hajduk. The Italian football team of Spalato/Split (they called the town: Spalato) was Il Calcio, and his founder was dr Ernest Ilic in 1910. After few years, the team changed name in Edera. Some footballers: Polli, Guina, Bartolazzi, Sanzin. When Kaliterna and Stella founded the Hajduk in 1911 (you know that the inventor of the name was Josip Barac), the Austrian official who signed the legal recognition was an Italian: the judge Nardelli from Zadar/Zara (he named the town Zara, in the legal recognition). The first derby between Il Calcio and Hajduk occurred on June 11, 1911. Hajduk won 9-0! It was also the first official match of Hajduk. Hayduk played with: Buchberger, Namar, Zupa, Murat, Rosseg, Fakac, Tudor, Leway, Sidic, Nedoklan and Rauning. Voilà!--Luigi 28 (talk) 19:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- And now tell me if some Pio knows something like this...--Luigi 28 (talk) 19:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- Sin, you're restarting to bore.--Luigi 28 (talk) 20:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you. Sine, you're restarting to bore.
Ivan, se javlja i pokusava preokrenuti moje rijeci, koje nikada nisam napisao.--Luigi 28 (talk) 22:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- Dear friend, zašto ne odgovoriti kada govorim na hrvatskom (loše)?--Luigi 28 (talk) 23:21, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
You gotta watch this, it's one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen on the internet. :)
Vojislav Seselj and the Radicals analyze election results. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- :)))) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- The election results came as a surprising totally-against-all-polls shock to everyone, and this video spread across the internet so quickly like plague. :-) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello member of the "Ring of Croat Nationalists"!! I guess I am one of your "friends"?? :) I feel bad we are having fun at Bruno's expense; but then again, he deserves it for his unabashed, moronic actions. Let's keep an open mind, Dionix (talk) 23:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Buddy, don't demand that Mary be quiet. Encourage her to babble. Engage her in deep and lengthy conversation. Entangle her in philosophical discussion. Entice her into revealing her thoughts about football. Ask her for a date. Something romantic, leading to carnal satisfaction. That way, Bruno will be deterred and waylaid from doing further damage to the encyclopedia. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 22:47, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
We're famous again. See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#sockpuppets. -- AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 19:18, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
DIREKTOR, is there a way to find data of population censuses conducted in Croatia for several specific locations I am interested? I can't find heads or tails in the Statistical Office website. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 12:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
If only it was always as easy as Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/PIO (4th). Done and dusted in under an hour. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 15:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- You can try, I guess, but I never seem to see much response when you go via their talk pages. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 15:23, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- Well, well. Another great result for Croatia, now bring on the Turks. As for our mate Luigi, I'd almost given up hope of getting that sorry story over and done with. He'll be back within a week though. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 21:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
That one was SO close... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
- Incredible. I knew that the outcome could be that way when the Turks gave that one at the end, because the Turks are really good at shooting. The Croatian team's better than the Turkish no doubt, but the Turks specialized in this...
- Ah...switched to OBN to listen Ćiro... --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:49, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
You are having PIO I am having Velebit. It is our wiki karma :)--Rjecina (talk) 16:13, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- I am having checkuser decision that Velebit is using Verizon IP so it is possible to say that any IP edit from Verizon is from Velebit if he is writing interesting version of Croatian history. Now I am having new checkuser find which is clearly saying that he is from Washington DC.
- If you use this 2 decisions and my IP tool it is simple to find from where is any IP and if he is Velebit or not :)--Rjecina (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
N.13/Kubura/DIREKTOR/Alasdair/Rjecina you are a funny vandal child. 21 June 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.67.86.88 (talk) 16:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I am being funny? No you are so funny being today vandallo. ah ah ah ah little child :P --DIREKTOR (TALK) 17:07, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- N.13/Kubura/DIREKTOR/Alasdair/Rjecina you are no a student but an old secret agent of OZNA or killer of UDBA. 21 June 2008
You are no being hello to you. I am as Tito in persona to be evil. as you are thinkere Italians are master of Slav, so much smarter to be, yes today. yes I am being James Bondović, 70 years old little child allora. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 17:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Can you honestly say you do not consider Slavs primitive PIO? --DIREKTOR (TALK) 17:35, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- N.13/Kubura/DIREKTOR/Alasdair/Rjecina you don't know PIO, Brunodam, Cherso, Giovanni, Luigi, Agazio but they are Italians then your reaction is like as a bull in arena: I consider all nations in same manner and in Italy I consider Giorgio Napolitano an old idiot slave of Sovietics! Your vandalism disrupting contributions of Luigi is absurd because those are not anti-Croatian! 21 June 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.67.86.88 (talk) 18:10, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Here's the thing: this IP (151.67...) you are using now was used by Luigi 28. You, as is undoubtedly clear, are PIO. This means that Luigi 28 is/was PIO. This means that he is a banned user (which is proven, anyway). This means that he was NOT allowed to make any edits, anti-Croatian or not, on Wikipedia. Also, I advised you to achieve a consensus (as well as sources) before editing, as that is the only way your edits will remain after you are blocked. Please understand: you are no longer allowed to contribute to this website, AT ALL. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 18:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- I have not told you that I am deleting all contributions by user Velebit. We are having banned users which are writing POV bullshits knowing that they will be discovered but with idea that this bullshit will stay in article. Because of that I am deleting all edits of banned editors and my actions are OK with Wikipedia rules :)--Rjecina (talk) 19:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Nice ;) --DIREKTOR (TALK) 19:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- N.13/Kubura/DIREKTOR/Alasdair/Rjecina/Zenanarh you don't understand anything! Ciao nonno Bondović 70 years old. 22 June 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.67.86.114 (talk) 11:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I am a fascist from Dubrovnik and fascist Ustaše movement is active in Croatia currently.--Ustashi (talk) 11:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
No Croatian law forbids a fascist movement: one time certainly under criminal communist dictator Tito. No wiki rule forbids my username too.--Ustashi (talk) 12:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
We are a new kind of fascists and don't use symbols or name of ustaše; we have no web site but if you want start a battle against me in this site means that you are hostile versus me because you are an old Tito's fan. In real life I usually destroy titoists with my fists.--Ustashi (talk) 13:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
- PIO, I somehow doubt you've ever even been to Dubrovnik. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 14:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
- LOL, knew it was him ;) No Ustaše talks like that, he would have to be incredibly, unbelievably, astronomically STUPID. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 14:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yep. To find the real WikiUstashas, refer to User:Red Croat, User:CroDome, User:UstashkiDom and User:GreaterCroatia. Actually it's more funny, than sad. ;-) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:31, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
DIREKTOR/Alasdair/Kubura/Moreschi you are crap and your English is at elementary level!!!! VAFFANCULO COGLIONE SCHIZOIDE!!!!--Ustashi (talk) 14:45, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
- You musta think we'rea idiots eh? What a mistakea to makea! eh, PIO?
- Man, I know its un-wikilike, but I'm loving this stuff he throws around... --DIREKTOR (TALK) 14:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
- LOL almost hardly waiting for the next one... Zenanarh (talk) 18:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I believe it was added because for some time in history it was part of Serbia.
What on earth happened to your talk page? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
- Hold your horses! A better solution must be found first, as three templates next to each other (!!!) is...well, you see.
- I can barely read this one. :D --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:07, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
o I don't get it... it's really weird Zenanarh (talk) 17:08, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'll ask around... --DIREKTOR (TALK) 17:48, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
- Well done for fixing the Dalmatia infobox. Having seen your msgs, I poked around with it for a while this evening, but I must admit I couldn't get it to change in the desired way, no matter what I tried. So I called it a stubborn mule and gave up. It was much like me trying to fix my car. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 20:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I have rewriten this user Velebit article with data from USHMM. Now somebody need to rewrite my bad english....--Rjecina (talk) 18:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
- You know how much I hate book sources for our history.
- Second problem are citations. When you put citations in article you are making overkill (we are having official wiki name for that but...). We know his crimes, where will we be if for example we will use citations for crimes. This is our Balkan thing. My advice is for you to look article about Rudolf Höß. If articles about Croatian war criminals are writen in similar way everything is OK--Rjecina (talk) 19:26, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
- Before writing article about this monster you need to read this--Rjecina (talk) 19:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
- First I will ask your help about deletion of article Srbosjek. Tomorow I will download Yugoslav enciklopedija and look if there is Srbosjek. If answer on my question will be no I will need your help for starting of deletion process for that article.--Rjecina (talk) 21:10, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
- Your help (revert) is needed in article Ivo Andrić. You will see that arguments are right (and accept by administrator) but I do not want to make revert number 4 against puppets of banned user which can start new incident. I do not understand how anybody can be so "genius" and so POV that in article where it is document about his Croat nationality write that he is Serb. All in all you can see Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/72.75.24.245--Rjecina (talk) 05:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Where have you lost Kašuni, Institut, Bene and a half of Marjan? :)
I would like to make such one for Zadar. How? Zenanarh (talk) 00:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
- Hehe I was supposed to do Zadar a year ago, but what made me to start it now and not to be lazy was Split article, mainly managed by you. BTW I'm jealous that you got barnstar from Pax and not by me :) After al that Dalmatia struggle with GG and restrictions that hit you almost same as him, you've deserved a 10's of it. Zenanarh (talk) 15:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Have a look at this:
Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets#User:Giovanni_Giove
AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 16:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
House of Caboga
Your contributions of the House of Caboga is vandalism, the name Kabudzic was never used by the family nor in history books. Do you have published references? If you do aninternet search on Kabudzic there are no entries, but with Caboga there are 5900.Please undo all your changes from Kabudzic back to Caboga otherwise I will have to issue a warning.
Best regards,
Caboga
I have mentioned you, in passing, on this ANI thread: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Long comment by barneca. You may wish to contribute to the discussion. --barneca (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
You may, or may not, wish to contribute at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Narodnoe_Opolcheniye#Requested_move. Kind regards Buckshot06(prof) 08:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Im sorry this has taken so long to answer. Unfortunately i dont know much about the banned user PIO, i just reverted the sock edit the person put on your page and another via one of his Ips. I can understand it is frustrating that he is banned from the wiki but doesn't accept that, have you ever tried filing a request for Checkuser to see if they can block the main IP he has been using? I have seen all the others were blocked for 72 hours, i guess my only advice would be that whenever you see him come on the wiki, you notify administrators to block him on site. Eventually he will get tired and move on, one can only hope but dont let this get you down. I see you have been getting in touch with admin Moreschi and that editor seems to be up to date on things, dont hesitate to get in touch with that admin again, thats what they're here for. Thanks Monster Under Your Bed (talk) 13:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
please have a look here. Guy0307 (talk) 05:09, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
The June 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 18:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
I just made a draft of a proposal to amend WP:UE to avoid "reliable source" misuse. When you finish with your wikibreak, take a look and tell me what do you think. Admiral Norton (talk) 23:29, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Looks like there is a concerted attempt to revert the redirect to Mare Nostrum. [14] The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 14:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Welcome back buddy. Exams OK? AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 14:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- Have a few beers, you'll be fine :-) AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 14:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- Many many congrats. Now have much more beer/wine/rakia... ;-)) AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 19:19, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- OK doctor, don't forget to heal any wounded you may find as you patrol the streets. Otherwise I'll report you to your professors ;-) AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 19:33, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
On your user page you have more crap and utter useless information, it is just beyond me how can one be so dedicated yet forgets to mention he is also a Serb, quite obvious, you see in Croatia no one speaks Serbo-Croat, only Croatian language, there is no such language - "Serbo-Croat", and as to unification of Jugolala, dream on, Croats will never ever unite in to a same state with the Serbs. You people start all the wars, and you loose all the wars, thank god we no longer need to listen to your crappy music, your crappy attitudes and your nostalgic days, when Croatia was paying and Serbia was enjoying.
- My family lived in Split for more than six generations. I'm probably "more" of a Croat than most of the newly created Übercroats. I'm also not stupid, and I am aware that "Croatia is not going to unite with Serbia", I simply support the idea. Anyway, I was on a Wikibreak and did not notice this nonsense, any more of that stuff and I'll make sure you're reported. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 19:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- Hey Direktor, why don't you erase this trash above? It's just insulting you and the facts you are committed to. Besides, one of the rules on your discussion page is 'NO INSULTS', and whoever wrote the text above should follow that. Best Regards to you Direktor, and have a great summer. Cheers.24.86.127.209 (talk) 18:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks :), you too. No, I think I'm actually going to make an exception here. This could be very educational for all those who think of me as a "Croat nationalist". The comparison may prove enlightening. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 19:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- If you have time can you start deletion request [15] ?--Rjecina (talk) 19:38, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- If you don't mind me stepping in here DIREKTOR, I'd say to Rjecina put all your arguments onto the table at the article's talk page. Bullet point style. Then we'll see. I'm open minded on this topic, but if you can persuade me, sure, I'll AfD it. But if you feel it should be done, probably you are the best person. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 21:40, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- You comment about Uskoci is maybe wrong. Until creation of military frontier they are Kingdom of Croatia soldiers. Nationality is another question--Rjecina (talk) 21:17, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- Srbosjek is an interesting example of Wikipedia's flaws and needs to be dealt with. Firstly, are you sure that the Keep guys don't have any other sources to throw at us other than the ones you mentioned? Secondly, you stated in your explanation that Croats did not commit genocide against Serbs in WW2, which is to my knowledge incorrect, it would be nice if we had another proof of Bulajić's profound biase. A source called "Jasenovac committee of the Holly Assembly of Bishop of the Serbian Ortodox Church", however, is obviously POV and does not really require any further discrediting in this matter. Finally, a quick summary of the argument for Alasdair and me would be nice.
- As for the Uskoci, even if we did take into account the almost completely insignificant Croatian state of that time, I believe these guys answered directly to the King (Emperor), and not his Croatian Ban. (Note that I'm not saying they weren't Croats by ethnicity.) --DIREKTOR (TALK) 23:56, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- Reasons for deletion are here. Bulajić is defeated earlier because he is speaking about Ustaše genocide but he is telling that there is no Srebrenica genocide (I must look for source).--Rjecina (talk) 00:04, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- The main thing is that I (and I presume Alasdair as well) really don't know much about the issue. Can you write up a very short summary of the whole thing? More specifically, I'm not sure exactly what you are disputing, the existence of the knife, or the nature of its use (or something else)? --DIREKTOR (TALK) 00:09, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- It has not existed. Knife has been used for killing but knife specialy produced in Germany for Ustaše killings ?? It is fantasy !
- If you believe in that you must believe that Croat or Bosniak forces has used this knife in Yugoslav wars ( ICTY link). It is example of Serbian mythology. Article has been deleted on German wiki because it is false. For more information you need to contact user:Rhun !--Rjecina (talk) 00:39, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- I see, but what about the picture? (The HOS was supplied with weapons from Germany, though I doubt they created a model especially for the killing of Serbs... lol) --DIREKTOR (TALK) 00:57, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- I see glove with knife. Nothing more nothing less. During first deletion discussion argument has been that there is USHMM picture of knife, but this argument has been false or USHMM has been victim of Serbian joke and latter they have deleted picture. See this:
- "I found also a Picture on the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum --Schlauischlumpf "
- "...source from United States Holocaust Museum is a reliable source...Laughing Man"
- On this pictures I do not see knife. Because of that picture is not reliable source !--Rjecina (talk) 03:55, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- I can make a photo of a bird shit falling in the air and say it's a Martian spaceship. I can send it to NASA and they can have it in their archives, but it's still not a source, not at all, especially not a reliable one. In fact there is no reliable source about that knife as well as there was no that thing in reality. IMHO this is perfect example how someone's black humour became myth and myth became "reality" so we have article about it!. Too sad to laugh at it. Zenanarh (talk) 09:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- I expect they used any old knives they could find in mama's kitchen. The idea there was a special knife made in Germany is a bit strange. If you went along to kill some people but didn't have the special proper knife made in Germany I doubt anyone would've said "Sorry, no killing for you today, please go home. You don't have the right knife". AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 10:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Ok, let's AfD. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 10:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- I agree, but what's Rjecina's problem on this? Why are we being asked to do it? AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 11:04, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
You know how "opening statements" are crucial to the success of the AfDs... I don't mind giving a hand in the formulation, though I hope Rjecina will be active in supporting the whole endeavor. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 11:12, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- This is 3rd nomination and not second !?--Rjecina (talk) 14:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Yep, we can count the Srbosjek (without the "(knife)") article as one of the previous AfDs as well. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 15:26, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- I will not comment anymore this discussion. Maybe I am mistaking but user Ironholds really like to start long discussion so that everything go to hell (users forget about what is this discussion).--Rjecina (talk) 15:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Sources
Your english is better so on this place I will destroy Srbosjek "sources" so you can use this data in discussion.
- Like it is possible to see website given by user Terse is using data of Jasenovac research institute [16] and number 5 goal of this site is "To mobilize the Serbian people, and all progressive political forces worldwide, in a political struggle to end the war currently being waged against the Serbs" [17] and because of that this 2 sites are not reliable sources for wiki articles !
- Second "source" is archive of "state" which is guilty of genocide. This is Republika Srpska [18] which is know for POV pushing about WWII things because she has organized meetings with claim of 700 000 victims of Jasenovac extermination camp [19]. On other side if we look data of USHMM and Jewish Virtual Library we are coming to less of 100 000 victims of this camp [20] [21]. Highest international number of Jasenovac victims is by The Yad Vashem center which is claiming 600,000 victims of Jasenovac [[22]. Republika Srpska numbers are higher even of that so position of this state inside state is POV and because of that it is not Wikipedia reliable source.
- About Bulajić this is enough [23] !--Rjecina (talk) 15:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- I will give it a better translation, and leave the posting to you, ok? --DIREKTOR (TALK) 15:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- OK--Rjecina (talk) 16:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- 1) The website presented by User:Terse is using data from the profoundly biased "Jasenovac research institute" [24], a Serbian organization who's goal is, quote: "To mobilize the Serbian people, and all progressive political forces worldwide, in a political struggle to end the war currently being waged against the Serbs" [25], hardly NPOV.
- 2) The second source is a state archive of a Serbian political entity held guilty of genocide by the UN, namely the Republic of Srpska, and is not based on any particular professional research. The state's position on WW2 Axis crimes is generally inconsistent with the historical consensus, and is always in the extremes when it comes to Serb victims. For example, the state's position is that there were 700,000 victims in Jasenovac [26], which would account for well over half of the total death toll in WW2 Yugoslavia (about 1,200,000). If we take into account the fact that there was an extremely bloody guerrilla war taking place, we can understand the audacity of that claim. On the other hand the USHMM and the Jewish Virtual Library came up with a figure of circa 100,000 [27], while the highest international number of Jasenovac victims is claimed by the Yad Vashem center (600,000) [28]. This lengthy explanation was necessary for the clarification of the reliability and verifiability of this state's official stance.
- 3) As for Bulajić, outrageous claims like this are hardly new for him. As was mentioned earlier, he is the author of a genocide denial "theory" concerning the Serbian massacre of Srebrenica [29].
- There, done. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 16:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- My memory is making tricks ?? I have used copy-paste of this editing earlier near to Nerse comments...--Rjecina (talk) 20:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi buddy. You'll need to have a look at these [30] [31]. Just a clue: Jr. is Bruno, and Presbite is Luigi 28 (but not PIO, he says). You and I seem to be in their thoughts rather a lot. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 11:26, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- Hmmm, they've been trying to track me down?! LoL, the only problem is that I have a middle name (krsno ime) and that they've probably found my first cousin studying in Zagreb (we have a tradition of the name Ivan/Giovanni in the family). Quite a little group of detectives... though in retrospect it was stupid to put up even a part of my name on Wiki. I just never thought back then I'd have to deal with such fanatics. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 11:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Please mind WP:CIV. Dismissing an editor in such a way in deletion edit summary is derogatory and disrespectful of my work, and it is not a place for such POV, even personal attack, there! Joka (talk) 11:05, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Appologies accepted. While it is true that all users have some bias, the fact that you mentioned it in the deletion proposal, for obvious reason of casting a doubt on the article merits (why otherwise would you point that out - all users of course have their POV but putting it in such a contest implies dismissal of article based on credibility of a user, which tantamounts to a kind of disrespectful dismissal ad hominem), is what is wrong and, in my view, is below the WP:CIV standards. You might disagree with my arguments, but some others might (and in fact do) agree, and you shouldnt prejudice value of my contribution in deletion proposal like that. Regards, Joka (talk) 11:33, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- I just want to say that I respect your decision to take into account the evidence provided and rethink your decision as a very honourable way to go. Regards, Joka (talk) 03:11, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Are you sure? Look again. Show me a single mention of this goddam knife in any source. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 00:32, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Like I said to Rjecina, "beyond reasonable doubt". The sources are being listed and vouched for by relatively serious editors, and I did a little research of my own. It would appear that the majority Jasenovac victims did not die by poison gas, but are mostly as victims of a cutthroat knife. The Ustaše are generally famous for being literally "cutthroats" (koljači) themselves, as they preferred to conserve ammunition. It is quite possible that they ordered a quantity of specially designed knives for this purpose. There really are a large number of references to this knife, myth or no, and it deserves an article. You know I rarely change my mind ;) but I think I'm going to distance myself from this article for the time being. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 00:50, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Still there is no evidence for Srbosjek--Rjecina (talk) 14:18, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- There has been similar discussion in article Serb war propaganda during Yugoslav wars (or similar name). In the end article has been deleted because it is not possible to write neutral version of article. I will look for that in history of my edits but I need time.--Rjecina (talk) 15:06, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- You need to read article Avro Manhattan--Rjecina (talk) 15:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- In the end user Rhun has created Srbosjek problem with his first wrong deletion nomination. Without that article can be fast deleted because it is recreation of deleted article--Rjecina (talk) 22:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- You are editing articles which I protect from user Velebit :)
- About Brzica you need to read:"They heard stories about the fierce butcher, Petar Brzica, who boasted that during one night alone he killed 1,360 prisoners by slitting their throats" The Glass Half Full by Alan Greenhalgh ISBN:0977584410 page 68. This is writen by user Velebit !!--Rjecina (talk) 01:36, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
I'll have a look. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 01:42, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Is it possible that we have GG's resurrection here? User:Ragusino, 190.21.78.87, 190.21.76.0 are all the same person. See this: [32]. Similar IP's are editing Ragusino page. How many 3RR's were broken here by the same person? My intention was to repair the history sections, I've wrote a little comment of my intention at the talk page, I didn't even start it and there's already edit warring! I can't resist to feeling that we have our Giove back finally. Edit warring and avoiding of the talk page. Please take a look and tell me am I dreaming. Completely the same pattern of behaviour. Is this 2008 or 2007? Zenanarh (talk) 13:25, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
- It's only GG if he has moved. This is GG [33], whereas I'm pretty sure Ragusino and the 200... IP are one and the same. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 15:08, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
I have noticed that there are many articles that include geographical place names in more than one language, such as, for example Rijeka/Fiume or Zadar (Zara) etc. I would like to draw your attention to the relevant Wikipedia policy on this matter, which is strict and explicit, and says that this is not permitted. It is WP:NCGN and you should read it carefully. Basically, it says that:
- On the English Wikipedia, only English names should be used. This means, except in a few cases, the modern most commonly used modern name, such as Trieste, Istria, Montenegro etc.
- Non English names can be mentioned once, in the lead section.
- Where an article is explicitly about a period of time in a place (eg the Republic of Ragusa) it seems the foreign name is acceptable.
Therefore, under this rule, non-English place names must be removed from all articles to standardise the encyclopedia and avoid confusion. Please remove non-English place names, and edit summaries that do so should mention this policy WP:NCGN. I have started this standardisation but I cannot cover all the articles. Please help out here and encourage other editors to comply with official policy. Many thanks. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 01:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I know about this, it's what we've been screaming at the Admins during the whole Dalmatia thing. All they saw was the Balkans conflict, though, and I got restricted for "edit-warring" :(, i.e. reverting name changes and other nonsense so radical it eventually got the other guys banned, but you know all this... Any name changes are now considered provocation, even by Admins. This policy was only ever interpreted as an "excuse" to that end. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 01:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
- I've read some of those discussions from a year ago, unfortunately before I was around. I don't see the policy being named or read by anyone. Well, I'll be standardising place names wherever I find them, removing non-English names. Zadar is a start. If anyone like Ragusino (who seems like a very lonely voice to me) wants to revert war, the articles can be protected like Zadar is now. Hopefully, given that fanatics like GG and PIO have been shown the door, there should be no problems. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 09:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
- ...and I cleaned up Italian irredentism a week or so ago. A pretty high profile example, and I thought there was a good chance some nationalist would be along to revert. Nobody's tried to put the Italian names back yet. We should be bold. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 09:46, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
One more thing about WP:NCGN usage. What is objective criteria for non-English names in the lead section? It certainly covers historical names attached to the geographical place. It certainly doesn't cover the names in all world languages. Some names edited in the lead sections by an anon are just contemporary Italian names. The most of those cities, towns and islands were never ever settled by any Italian at all. Venetian names were varying from 15th to 18th century (when a part of Dalmatia was in the Republic of Venice), from the native to distorted or Venetian exonyms. Usage of name was not realy standardized, it depended on an author.
There's a geographical map of Zadar archipelago in 16th century by an anonymus (in Zadar) where almost all names were the native Croatian, except Zara. An earlier georaphical map from 14th cent drawn by an Genovese had mostly the native names transformed to fit his own Italian dialect spoken in Genoa. In Venetian maps it was Venetian or Venetianized ("Geographical Names on 16th and 17th Century Maps of Croatia", hrcak.srce.hr/file/20115).
I don't think that Italian names from fascistic era are appropriate. Venetian if the city/town/island was in Rep of Venice, yes. Zenanarh (talk) 13:45, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
- I think we just need to be consistent. If there is a non-English name (Italian, German, Albanian, whatever) it/they should be mentioned once, only once, in the lead section. If we stick to that, which is what the policy says, then we shouldn't have any problems. If, on the other hand, we start to say there are exceptions for whatever reason, then that will open the door to some Italian nationalist fanatic (of whom there seem to be many) to say "this is also an exception" and throwing Italian names around like confetti to try to give them equal status. Result: edit warring, chaos, threads at AN/I and more of the crap we've had to put up with forever. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 13:58, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
- Well, I've just thought about those Italian names attached to the places only because of fascistic occupation in WWII. How many German names are there in Belgium, French places? Zenanarh (talk) 15:06, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
- How many German names of French or Belgian places? Millions. Have a look at Names of European cities in different languages. You'll have a tough job showing any "Italian names attached to the places only because of fascistic occupation in WWII", I'd say. I just think we ought to be consistent, and firm, if we want to put an end to this Zadar/Zara Rijeka/Fiume nonsense. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 15:22, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
As far as I'm concerned, I don't see a problem with city or regional names in Italian or whatever being mentioned in the lead. Anything less might be interpreted as bias and we might lose credibility as NPOV users when applying the policy. In my view, historical use from any period besides the WW2 occupation is reason enough for the inclusion of the name in the lead. This applies, however, only to towns, cities and regions that existed during those periods, and not for modern-day municipalities and counties (Županije), unless of course they are officially bilingual and/or have a noticeable minority (only Istria County, I think). --DIREKTOR (TALK) 17:01, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 17:22, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
I need editorial help in editing "my version" of this article. It is possible to see that all statements which are under "question" now have links.--Rjecina (talk) 03:13, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
- I am NPOV wiki fundamentalist. Please see article about Rudolf Höß commander of Auschwitz concentration camp and Miroslav Filipović commander of Jasenovac extermination camp. I do not see in article about Rudolf Höß any "eyewitness reports" from any book. Because of that in my thinking writing "eyewitness reports" from any book in Miroslav Filipović article is POV--Rjecina (talk) 14:17, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Buddy, here's a little light reading for you in the summer holidays: http://www.safaric-safaric.si/knjige/Veliki%20finale%20na%20Koroskem.pdf
- Thanks :) --DIREKTOR (TALK) 10:50, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
- You're welcome :-) It's the only detailed source on the military side of May '45 that I've found. There's plenty of (mostly over emotive) stuff about Bleiburg/Operation Keelhaul, but only this that details which Partisan units were in Koroška, names, dates, places etc. Pity it's only available in Slovene. BTW, I'm sure you've seen GG's been firmly escorted to the exit - Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Giovanni Giove (5th)... AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 11:01, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
- You have to be pretty fanatical to blatantly ignore your restriction immediately after it was imposed... the freaky thing is, he probably blames me for his block :P We don't have to worry about missing him, though, he'll be back. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 11:04, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi mate, how's things? The IP you've reverted today [34] isn't Bruno. It's this guy that turned up here User_talk:AlasdairGreen27#Pio_again trying to say he was Luigi 28 but wasn't PIO.
When you've got a minute you might want to have a look at Zen's and my comments at User_talk:Jesuislafete#Non-English_place_names. We need to get every article standardised in my view. Lastly, re: dear old Bruno, I've thrown your suggestion over to AN at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Question_-_Ban_for_multiple_sockpuppeteer.3F. Have a good weekend :-) AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 12:00, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
- Oh yeah, we definitely need to stick to policy here. I removed some Italian names in articles about municipalities, because there is no need to add any foreign names unless the administrative unit is bilingual (like Istria County) or has an Italian minority.
- That's not Don d'Ambrosio?! Damn, there's so many of them... I can't believe you can keep track! :) Nice work reporting the Don, if you need any help just ask. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 13:40, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Very interesting, I meet a Croat who is sympathetic to an anti-nationalist Croatian atrocity. I see that World War II lists September 2, 1945 as the official end, but was that not simply a date when "state of war" ceased to exist between Germany and the Allies? Had not the war been declared over from April 1945? In any case, what is the lowest estimate? Evlekis (talk) 21:42, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Look here, if you wish to join Croatian nationalists here, the choice is yours! Not Adam's! I never would have attacked your character if you were; I actually accept these people, nationalists of all backgrounds. Without a hunger for self-determination, no nation would have survived. Sure you and I would be here today, but we might have called ourselves Italians or Turks, depending which neighbouring predator race proved the more influential down the years! Likewise, we also dissimilated many great populations of the past, such is the course of nature. Self-determination in turn can only be established once the scholars of a nation have concluded what is to be their territory, and who are its citizens, and who are not. They may be the cause of the world's suffering, but without them, it would only be someone else; either that, or the whole world would be of one identity, one faith and with one language, I think you'll agree that this would be boring. Besides, my aim in life is to make friends, not alienate people, so I accept you however you are, pro- or anti- nationalist. But it's not fair for either of us to call it "petty."
Down to business, I sort of agree with you about the events of two days later still being affected by the actions of 48 hours previously. But at the same time, one event leads to another. There is no cut-off point. Czechoslovakia carried out the Sudetenland explusions of its German population in 1946; Russians invaded them later in 1968 and removed people; everything is losely connected. The point is that western media want to spread the word that Srebrenica was the biggest act of mass murder since WWII, then that should mean precisely that - since the time in question, otherwise they should say "since May 1945". Since you stand by September 2nd as the official end date, I accept it, so I altered the intro slightly before I began this message. I hope it sits well with you as it is at the minute. Evlekis (talk) 22:55, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
In response to this.
Did you take a look at the problem my comment was addressing? It was one of bad faith on the part of the 'editor', a guy hellbent -to the extent of sockpuppeteering- on removing non-Albanian names from all Albanian articles, even when their inclusion was warranted (you should read the comments left by one of his sockpuppets...the inclusion of a couple Greek names apparently "questioned Albanian sovereignty" to paraphrase him), not one of lack of "common sense" (that was in reference to my not reading the guidelines which supported, as explained by a helpful editor, the inclusion, anyhow; I guess guidelines=/=common sense always which is encouraging ;). Btw, I'm from the Balkans as well (the opposite end, roughly, since you're from Split) so why wouldn't I want higher standards for my own neighborhood, at least as far as "good faith" is concerned (I'm guilty too)?! Cheers. 3rdAlcove (talk) 01:11, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
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