Daniel Carrero

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List of animation and graphic art works with LGBT characters: Haruhi

I didn't revert you right away because I like what you're doing combining the lists because it gives me less to watch, but this inclusion feels like synthesis to me. I don't think there are any reliable sources that confirm that statement, and her behavior in the series contradicts it. I suspect the intention of that line was to mean she wasn't interested in normal humans, not that she didn't want to date them. If you find a reliable source though, I could be convinced to accept it. What do you say? --Tarage (talk) 08:25, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

I understand. I removed Haruhi from the list per what you said. I'll let you know if I think I can find any reliable sources in the future to readd it. Thank you for saying that you liked what I did, combining the lists. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 16:04, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

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Trunkpeople

I'm not sure this should be included. It kinda falls in that "one-off" zone where it's used mostly for a joke and not for a long lasting character or plot element. Rather that just revert I thought I'd talk to you first. --Tarage (talk) 23:59, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

OK, removed. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 22:19, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

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• Hi, you'll need to tell us the IP address. If you wish to keep the IP address confidential, please use WP:UTRS.

  @Boing! said Zebedee:: OK, here it is: 177.33.210.237 --Daniel Carrero (talk) 00:01, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thanks for taking on the effort to reorganize List of video games with LGBT characters. -- ferret (talk) 12:34, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. :) --Daniel Carrero (talk) 15:20, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

List of films with LGBT characters

Hi Daniel Carrero (talk), Thank you for your many recent constructive edits to this page. I have responded to your earlier edits and accompanying well-considered and very reasonable points with a full reply and apology to you and another editor on my Talk page. You are more than welcome to respond to the reply I gave you there. However, I must say that I disagree with your edit today in which you have deleted all the country links, and consequently I have reverted that deletion. The reason is that Wikipedia editorial guidelines require only the FIRST link for each country/territory to be made, not for every mention of a country to be linked again. Consequently, only one link for each country/territory in the right hand column was made. All such links had already been made, prior to your edit, and so they have been brought back. Incidentally, I do agree with you that it is not necessary to describe Hong Kong as an S.A.R. of China in each labelling, so I have retained your edits on that, too. Also, as Hong Kong and Switzerland were more important to the production of the film Soundless Wind Chime (2009) than was China, I've placed them in order of importance to the overall production process - notwithstanding the fact that Lu Yulai, one of the film's two most important actors and its scriptwriter, is a Chinese national. Hope all the above points are clear, and that you concur! Thanks again and all the best to you —- Tai kit (talk) 12:27, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Series

To be completely honest, I'm not that hard-pressed on the whole thing, but I think it'd be better if the animated series were seperated by decade. If anything else, because there are just too many examples. Splitting them into four sections by decade would make it easier for readers to navigate it and for editors to make changes. And considering that the stake of the list isn't that good—like really, "rumored gay"?—and lacking citations for many of the examples listed, editors could use all the help they can get. --PanagiotisZois (talk) 15:52, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

I removed the "rumored to be gay" character. I created a new discussion there, feel free to comment if you want: Talk:List of animated works with LGBT characters#Decades. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 18:16, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for seperating them based on decade. It makes editing much easier. I also wanted to inform you, I noticed that while the series are grouped together based on year in chronological order, shows within the same "cluster" don't actually take premiere date into consideration. I fixed that for shows that premiered in 2010 and plan on doing so with the other 2010's series. Additionally, I started using the "201X" template in the dates. That way, when someone uses autosort through "Year(s)", the shows will be listed in chronological order. I noticed that without it, using 2010 again, shows that premiered during that year are seperated into two sections: 1) shows that only aired during 2010, and 2) shows that continued past 2010; and they also go using alphabetical order. I guess I'm just curious, what's your take on the whole thing? PanagiotisZois (talk) 15:57, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

@PanagiotisZois: It's alright, thanks for letting me know. I think ordering the rows by their premiere date was a good idea. It was also a good idea using that template to list shows in chronological order using autosort too.

Maybe the full premiere date for all works should be shown on the table. For example, Kuttsukiboshi's date would be shown as "August 16, 2010 – May 11, 2012" (as opposed to just "2010 – 2012").

Reasons for the suggestion above: 1) it seems reasonable to show that information, since the rows are ordered that way, 2) to make it clear that this is the order intended (because some people might wonder: "why are the rows ordered this way? is it a random mess? or is there some logic to it?") 3) to fix mistakes easier if any row is added at the wrong place in the future.

One more thing: currently on the LGBT table, Darker Than Black's date is "2007-2009", but Candy Boy's is "2007–2009". The difference is: one uses the hyphen-minus (-) and the other uses the en dash (–). Maybe we should use some template to show only the en dash everywhere, not the hyphen-minus. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 09:54, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

I did consider adding in the premiere dates but I wasn't sure whether that'd be a good idea or not. But yeah, that would definately clarify things even more. I'll do it. As for the dashes, I believe the second one is better. PanagiotisZois (talk) 12:31, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Asian animation of Batman Beyond

Why removing Japan from the country cell in the infobox? There's one thing you misunderstood from the end credits of Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, the first and only feature-length movie from the TV series Batman Beyond (also known as Batman of the Future in Europe and Australia). After pre-production and before post-production, Warner Bros. Animation outsourced the TV series to the South Korean animation companies Koko Enterprises and Dong Yang Animation. But on the other hand, the Japanese studio TMS Entertainment did the animation services for Return of the Joker. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.224.57.136 (talk) 08:25, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

Avatar / Korra

Oh, I don't have a problem or anything at all. I know that Korra and Asami are bisexual. It was both confirmed by the creators and shown in Turf Wars. It's just that those characters are in Korra. which started in the 2010's, not Avatar, which started in the 2000's. I guess what we could do is seperate Kyoshi and include just her in the Avatar section. --PanagiotisZois (talk) 15:44, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

OK, I agree with you. That seems like a good idea to me. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 16:05, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Animated works with LGBT characters

Hi Daniel. I already wrote this on the talk page but I just wanted to reiterate my statement. Your ideas definitely seem preferable. Even if we separate the page by medium, we will still have around 100+ series left with LGBT characters. Separating them by century is a possibility. But to be honest, I still have some reservations because multiple "obstacles" appear. For one thing, should we even separate them by decade. I mean, the List of dramatic television series with LGBT characters dates all the way back to the 1970s, and it still hasn't been split. And if we do split them by century, because otherwise they'd be too large, shouldn't we do it by decade instead? Similarly to List of 1970s American television episodes with LGBT themes; then 80s and later 90s. Because even if we split it by century, the 21st century list would still be huge. And if we take into account 2020 up to 2099, it will be enormous. Heck, I'm sure that it will be enormous as early as 2025. Anyway, sorry for writing so much / venting. I just feel unsure about how to handle the page and you seem the editor most familiar with it. PanagiotisZois (talk) 21:54, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

@PanagiotisZois: Hello. Thank you for splitting the LGBT page into animated series and animated films. In my opinion, this was an improvement.

I get your point, there really is a tendency for that list to grow as you said. I guess we can't just split by century for the reasons you mentioned.

We probably can't just split by decade either, because the 20th century lists per decade would be too small. The current results would be:

• List of 1960s animated series with LGBT characters = 1 series
• List of 1970s animated series with LGBT characters = 1 series
• List of 1980s animated series with LGBT characters = 8 series
• List of 1990s animated series with LGBT characters = 39 series
• List of 2000s animated series with LGBT characters = 138 series
• List of 2010s animated series with LGBT characters = 180 series

Maybe we can use arbitrary dates like these instead:

• List of animated series with LGBT characters: 1960–2000
• List of animated series with LGBT characters: 2001–2010
• List of animated series with LGBT characters: 2011–2020
• and so on as needed. (it doesn't have to be these dates exactly, this is just a suggestion)

Plus, I'd like to repeat that my preference is for splitting between Japanese and non-Japanese, because of the quantity of Japanese works listed there. The worldwide total is 367 animated series, 284 (77.4%) of which are Japanese, so this already basically looks like a list of Japanese animated series in my opinion.

--Daniel Carrero (talk) 17:14, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

I guess if we want to split them by decade(s), it would probably be 1960-1999 and 2000-2009. Because if it ends at 2010, then we're entering a new decade. But yeah, thinking more on it, I would say it's might be preferable to split them by Japanese vs. non-Japanese series (and can I just say, wow, I can't believe you did the math). I mean, when it comes to live-action TV shows with LGBT characters, we do have them split by genre, such as drama, comedy, soap operas and so on. Splitting them by country of origin is definitely more objective, unlike drama where we have some overlap between lists and shows. Is there like a group or something we can bring this discussion to? As to whether we should split them by year or country? PanagiotisZois (talk) 12:16, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Hmm, I just reread my first comment. The drama list goes all the way back to the 70s and still hasn't been split. But it's also about a specific kind of television programming. If we use that way of thinking... aren't anime considered separate from cartoons / western animation? Now that I think about it, splitting them by anime vs cartoons continually seems more and more preferable. It could be split into List of cartoons with LGBT characters and List of anime with LGBT characters. PanagiotisZois (talk) 12:23, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

@PanagiotisZois: I think the word "anime" is fine. I'm OK with using a page title like List of anime series with LGBT characters.

However, I think we probably can't fit everything into either "anime" or "cartoon". For instance, it may be controversial to use either word for some Chinese animated series, like Dinosaur Baby Holy Heroes.

I'm aware of the anime style, but Western works using that style (Avatar: The Last Airbender, W.I.T.C.H., The Boondocks, RWBY, etc.) are still not commonly described, listed, or categorized as "anime" here in Wikipedia. These Western works don't seem to be often found in "anime" places like List of anime series by episode count and Category:2018 anime television series. These works are relegated to places like Category:Anime-influenced Western animation instead.

Here in Wikipedia, the common practice seems using "anime" as a shorthand for "Japanese animation", even when it deviates from usual anime style such as Crayon Shin-chan, Mind Game, Cat Soup and Hello Kitty (various series).

From what I see, "animated series" is the standard term to use around here in categories and lists for most countries. (as in Category:1990s American animated television series and List of animated television series of 1990) Japanese works are the exception, which are often referred to as "anime" (instead of "animated series"), but the "anime" categories are still subcategories of "animated series".

Maybe we should avoid using the word "cartoon" altogether in the article titles discussed, which may arguably evoke a "wacky", humorous style like SpongeBob SquarePants. After all, even SpongeBob and other cartoons are often found in "animated series" categories.

I previously suggested creating Japanese / non-Japanese lists. Expanding on that thought, there are 66 animated series from USA in the LGBT list already. At some point, I'd like to suggest creating a separate USA-specific page like List of American animated series with LGBT characters. That live action page you mentioned above—List of 1970s American television episodes with LGBT themes—may be seen as a precedent for that, because it's about American works as well.

Maybe the system could be like this:

• List of animated series with LGBT characters (with all works, except those found in country-specific lists below)
  • List of American animated series with LGBT characters (which may either be created now, or later when we have more American works listed)
  • List of anime series with LGBT characters

The logical conclusion would be eventually creating pages for various countries if possible like List of Brazilian animated series with LGBT characters, List of Chinese animated series with LGBT characters, etc. but we don't seem to have much material per country at the moment.

These are just some ideas. Feel free to talk about different ideas if you want.

One more thing: You mentioned how large is List of dramatic television series with LGBT characters, but I think it should probably be split at some point. I'd like to avoid using it as a precedent to think it's OK to have very long lists. "Articles should be neither too big nor too small.", to quote the guideline page you linked earlier.

If you are looking for other places to discuss this, maybe some WikiProjects listed in the talk page of that article such as Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies and Wikipedia:WikiProject Lists look like good places to start. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 01:14, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

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Bakeruno Shōgakkō Monogatari moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Bakeruno Shōgakkō Monogatari, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Boleyn (talk) 21:03, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

@Boleyn: I understand. Thanks for moving the page and letting me know. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 08:37, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, good luck with it, hopefully it'll be ready for mainspace soon. Boleyn (talk) 20:15, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

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