Madeinslovakia

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October 2011

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Slovak opinion polling pages

Hi. Yes, that's precisely the problem. situation which may change voters' preferences - change of the leader of party, constitutional crisis, parliamentary crisis, government crisis, the foundation of a new party is a very flimsy concept whose determination is subject to WP:NPOV and WP:SYNTH concerns. The vast majority of opinion polling articles throughout Wikipedia do not include them, and those few that do limit them greatly. I can't speak for the others, but for the UK (in whose consensus discussions I've frequently participated) events are limited to by-elections/local elections and leadership changes in the major parties, and even for those there was a great opposition to it. All other events are summarily removed when added.

The issue is precisely on the "what may change voters' preferences". This is an assumption of something that is very difficult to prove respecting WP:V and not entering outright WP:OR territory. Firstly: how can you be sure that event X may change voters' preferences? Secondly: what can be considered as a "voters' preferences" change? 1 percentage point? 5? 10? In the end, we would be required to add every minor event, ultimately depending on editor's own thoughts. So that would be outrightly against SYNTH.

this is going to be removed and I am planning to collect similar events as stated before and include them to 2020 page. No, this is greatly discouraged, per the reasons above. This is why many opinion articles are instead opting for a different approach: to add links to other articles where such events may be shown in full in the "[year] in [country]" format. For example Austria, Portugal or UK, to list some examples, do that. In the case of Slovakia, this can be done by improving the 2020 in Slovakia and similar articles. This would allow you to have separate lists for all relevant events in the country without unnecessarily crowding the tables nor making any direct implication ourselves as to which event has an impact in polling and in which degree, allowing readers to make up their own minds without the need to be artificially pointed to a conclusion that we ourselves made. Impru20^talk 08:52, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Leadership changes may or may not be significant, but automatically assuming that they are could be pushing into WP:SYNTH territory too much, because leadership changes do not necessarily correlate to a change in opinion polling (sometimes they do by having a bumping effect in the specific party, but some other times they have a negligible effect). As you correctly state, that is in your opinion: Wikipedia cannot depict information based on mere opinions. That there are no articles in Wikipedia about leadership changes for Slovak parties is not by itself a reason for adding those events in an opinion polling table; that would be a reason for being bold and create such articles instead. I do not see the correlation here because, as said, opinion polling tables are not timelines of events; there are other articles for that (and if these aren't there, just create them).

Government crises or ongoing scandals may indeed attract much media attention and can have plenty of sources to be found, but that's not the issue here: the issue here is that these are being added to a table on opinion polling, thus automatically assuming they are correlated to it. Again, entering into WP:SYNTH territory. They may or they may not; opinion polling tends to be very unstable from pollster to pollster and from time to time, and the short or long-lasting consequences that an event may have on opinion polling are just too complicated to simply be resume in a simple row in a table that, ultimately, is not designed for events.

I don't have any interest in editing Slovak-related articles because that's not my field of knowledge and I already have a lot of work left in my own field: I prefer to leave that to users who are more aware of Slovak politics and can more properly build those articles. However, opinion polling is one of my fields and one in which I've a lot of experience already, so I'm well aware of the SYNTH/OR/NPOV issues that can be involved in those. That's why I noticed your edits since I've the Slovak opinion polling articles in my watchlist. I don't know what's going on with that other user, but if you think they are engaging in disruptive or vandalic behaviour you should probably try to discuss the issue with that user first and, if it doesn't work, you may require to denounce the issue in the proper venues instead. Impru20^talk 10:15, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Slovakia

Hi,

I've seen your edits last July subsequently removed by Impru20. While I agree with the consensus of having very few events in the polling tables, Impru20 probably doesn't know the good practice of moving that list of events to the "[year] in [country]" articles. We can then add above the table: For events during these years, see 2020 in Slovakia , as in the UK page, and many other ones now.

Which is what I've done.

Also, since you seem to be Slovakian, I'd be very interested to know more about party differences in Slovakia in order to best represent them on an axis. Feel free to edit my sandbox. I'll add the colors.

Kahlores (talk) 01:37, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer on Slovakia.

I created this table in my Sandbox last year (this is why it still has #Siet and not Za ľudí).

The goal is to help find a logical arrangement over one axis, as we can quite easily do for Sweden, France, Germany, Finland and many others. But for Slovakia it's quite difficult.

1. First, there are two Magyar parties.
2. Second, because in Eastern Europe social conservatism and nationalism may not be right-wing stances, but also left-wing as you confirm.
3. Third, because of 'oddities' such as SaS whose article says is both 'liberal-libertarian' and 'euroskeptic', which is unusual. Hopefully you've just added that it isn't a truely Euroskeptic party.

I didn't know that OLaNO was a big tent coalition of liberals and conservatives.

Also, it seems that although almost all parties are pro-NATO, there are visible diplomatic differences.

I will make another updated version that includes your comments.

Kahlores (talk) 15:14, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your answers,

I've made a little update to the table, based on your remarks. I still have to add OLaNO's satellite parties.

Kahlores (talk) 02:06, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

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