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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1980 World Snooker Championship/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 30 May 2023 [1].

1980 World Snooker Championship

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Nominator(s): BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:08, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the year that Cliff Thorburn ground his way to the world title. Coverage of the final was interrupted by the broadcast of live footage of the Iranian Embassy Siege, which caused numerous viewers to complain to the BBC. I'm happy to provide reviewers with the relevant extracts from any of the offline sources. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:08, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments
  • Terry Griffiths and Ray Reardon are not linked on their first mention in the body
  • Higgins is not linked on first mention and his forename is missing
  • Meo is not linked on first mention and his forename is missing
  • "From 10 to 10" - is this a score? If so, why is it shown differently to all the others?
  • "featuring "brilliant" potting, according to Clive Everton" => "featuring "brilliant" potting, according to commentator Clive Everton" (or similar descriptor)
  • Wikilink The Times

Coordinator comment

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Three weeks in and just the single general support. Unless this nomination makes significant further progress towards a consensus to promote over the next three or four days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:54, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski

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I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.

Lede
  • Thorburn won the match 18–16, to become the first world champion from outside the United Kingdom in the sport's modern era. Probably wise to state what Nationality he was to compliment this. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:50, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Prose
  • world championship to pot black balls after each of the fifteen red balls during a break.[43] After running out of position on the fifteenth black, he managed to pot the yellow, - cuegloss for the coloured balls on first use. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:50, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Additional comments

Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 09:41, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Lee Vilenski: - do you still intend on reviewing this one soon? I tend to agree with Gog that this nomination is in danger of stalling out. Hog Farm Talk 19:52, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I had planned to make some comments tomorrow, of course it's up to you when you believe there is not a suitable amount of comments in general. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:54, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Go ahead, tomorrow is fine. Hog Farm Talk 23:20, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Took longer than expected, apologies. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:50, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks, Lee Vilenski. I replied to each point above. Let me know what you think. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:09, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nudge... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 17:44, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by HurricaneHiggins

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  • Some clarification may be needed around this sentence: "The World Snooker Championship is an annual professional snooker tournament organised by the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association (WPBSA)." While this was true in 1980, the tournament is now organised by the sport's commercial arm, World Snooker (rebranded as the World Snooker Tour in 2020) of which the WPBSA owns (I think) 26 percent. So the article shouldn't suggest that the WPBSA continues to organise the event.
  • I seem to recall that snooker articles should not comment on the difficulty of shots, as this can be subjective. Maybe rework sentences like "Thorne was on course to make a maximum break in the first frame, but missed an easy black ball", "From 11 to 11, Reardon missed some easy shots", and "Thorburn led 16–15, and missed an easy brown ball".
  • I might also place the sentence "Higgins and Thorburn had an ongoing rivalry during their playing careers and were perceived as adversaries" at the start of the Final section rather than at the end, to give context.
  • "Thorburn had become the first player to reach a second final at the Crucible." I might suggest changing "had become" to "became" and (optionally) mentioning that he lost to Spencer in the first final played at the Crucible in 1977.

Otherwise, happy to support.

Media review

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Source and second image review

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Images, placement, licences and ALT seem OK to me. I don't think Google Books links need archives. Some newspaper articles have an author and/or a link to the article, others don't - just to give examples, The Guardian for example is sometimes linked and sometimes is not and The Times sometimes has an author named and sometimes doesn't. Likewise, there is no consistency on which articles have the access date and which don't. It seems like source #3 says that snooker spread through India, not necessarily that it was founded there. Likewise source #6 says that China is at the forefront of popularizing it in Thailand, not necessarily that they already succeeded. I guess that #11 supports the article content. I am not sure I see the pricing information in the article in #13 and #14. Where in #15 does it say that the number expanded from 16 to 24? Where in #35 does it say 97 and ninth frame? I note that #38 seems to give Davis a 16-10 win over Thorburn which I don't see in the article. I don't see 3-6 in #39. #49 and #63 seem to link to different articles than the titles say. Where in #54 does it say 23th frame? I don't see any obvious reliability issues, but then I am not familiar with the sources of this topic area so take this comment with care. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:46, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I've reworked the Overview section, added references, and removed some of the text about the expanded popularity, as that only happened later in the 1980s. so, on relection isn't really relevant here. @Lee Vilenski: and @HurricaneHiggins: - would you mind having another look at overview as it's changed quite a bit; some of the issues above may be relevant in other snooker articles too.
  • For The Times articles, I've stated the author where it's given in the source, the others have author=<!--Staff writer(s)/no by-line.-->. There were a couple of other news or magazine sources where I've added this parameter.
  • access date: this is there for website versions of news outlets; I've removed where it was given for links to clippings.
  • Pricing: Source text for the former ref 11 ("Hurricane' has four-year itch") is "Higgins is only seeded 11, but the bookies know better. They have made him third favourite at 7-1 behind 3-1 joint favourites Terry Griffiths and Ray Reardon." The other references there are to support the descriptions of Griffiths and Reardon.
  • 97 break is supported by the other source given ("Champion finds himself on his knees"). Source text: "Willie Thorne (Leicester) led the Canadian champion Bill Werbeniuk, 5-4 after winning the last two frames of the first session yesterday. He made a break of 97 in the ninth frame."
  • Former #38 ("The Crucible Curse – Champions who have failed to defend first title in Sheffield") - the reference to Davis's 16-10 win against Thorburn refers to the 1981 World Snooker Championship, not the 1980 one.
  • {tq|Where in #54 does it say 23th frame?}} - it's from "15-7 at the interval" (22 frames) and "delivering the knockout with a break of 114 in the evening" Unfortunately, I couldn't find a clipping that states this very clearly; so I added an extra clipping but also an offline source.
  • Regarding topic area sources, Snooker Scene (the magazine and website) is usually regarded as definitive. Downer's Almanac, though self-published, is also highly respected. (e.g. "A major undertaking for Downer, whose efforts should be applauded. The almanac has become indispensible during the championship and is as comprehensive a reference resource as any sporting event could hope for." Dave Hendon, Snooker Scene, September 2010; Snooker HQ; The Sportsman; World Snooker Tour)
Thanks Jo-Jo Eumerus. Does that mean that the image and source reviews are both a "pass"? Gog the Mild (talk) 15:30, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, unless someone more familiar with snooker sourcing has objections to the sources. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:30, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Sammi Brie

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I see User:Sammi Brie/Commas in sentences commas that need removal:

  • The tournament was the 1980 edition of the World Snooker Championship, and was the fourth consecutive world championship to take place at the Crucible Theatre since 1977.
  • The competition was promoted by Mike Watterson, and received 70 hours of television coverage by the BBC in the United Kingdom...
  • The tournament was a ranking event, and was sponsored by cigarette company Embassy.
  • Thorne was on course to make a maximum break in the first frame, but missed a black ball after potting eleven reds and ten blacks.
  • Pat Houlihan, playing without his contact lenses due to conjunctivitis, compiled the only century break of the qualifying rounds, 108, during a 9–6 victory over Joe Johnson, but lost 1–9 in his following match to Tony Meo. It's the last comma that's in question, but this should really be split different. Pat Houlihan, playing without his contact lenses due to conjunctivitis, compiled the only century break of the qualifying rounds—108—during a 9–6 victory over Joe Johnson; however, he lost 1–9 in his following match to Tony Meo.
  • Fagan had led 2–0, but from 5–6 lost four of the following five frames Should be Fagan had led 2–0 but, from 5–6, lost four of the following five frames
  • Meo was 5–4 ahead of Higgins after their first session, and at 9–8 was a frame away from winning before Higgins took the last two frames with breaks of 77 and 62 to progress. Should be Meo was 5–4 ahead of Higgins after their first session and, at 9–8, was a frame away from winning before Higgins took the last two frames with breaks of 77 and 62 to progress.
  • Wilson ... won the first frame against Doug Mountjoy on the black as part of a 66 clearance, and took a 4–1 lead before finishing the first session at 5–4.
  • Edmonds had replaced his cue tip the night before the match, and playing with the unfamiliar tip, lost the first four frames, then went 2–7 behind David Taylor before losing 3–10. Change to Edmonds had replaced his cue tip the night before the match; playing with the unfamiliar tip, he lost the first four frames, then went 2–7 behind David Taylor before losing 3–10.
  • Defending champion Griffiths lost the first seven frames against Steve Davis, and ended the first session trailing 1–7.
  • Higgins won six of the eight frames in each of the first two sessions against Perrie Mans, and eliminated Mans 13–6.
  • Thorburn led 16–15, and missed a brown ball that let Higgins in to make it 16–16.

Not a CinS comma but still unneeded:

  • Thorburn won the match 18–16, to become the first world champion from outside the United Kingdom in the sport's modern era.
  • ...with the top eight seeded players, from the rankings based on performance at the three preceding editions of the world championship being placed in round 2 of the draw.

Other issues:

  • This list contains commas in the list entries, so it needs semicolon separators: Qualifying rounds for the tournament took place at Romiley Forum, Stockport, from 5 to 18 April 1980; at the Redwood Lodge Country Club, Bristol, from 11 to 16 April; and at Sheffield Snooker Centre from 12 to 17 April. (The body version of this needs the same treatment)
  • Thorne, having led 3–1, took a 5–4 lead over Bill Werbeniuk with a 97 break in the ninth frame. and he led in the match until Werbeniuk, who compiled a break of 101 in the thirteenth frame, made it 7–7. The period after "ninth frame" should be a comma, or the sentence separation should be made clearer.
  • The failure of first-time world snooker champions to defend their title has become known as the "Crucible curse." Period outside of quotes.
  • overcame the "brittle, edgy side of Virgo's temperament." Period outside of quotes
  • In the evening, Thorburn played cards and drank alcohol with friends until 5:00 am, resuming the match by winning the first five frames in succession, and going on to win 13–10, Remove the second-to-last comma. Last comma should be a period.
  • Having lost the first two frames to Wych, Thorburn built a 5–3 lead at the end of their first session. and after having led 9–3 and 10–6, progressed 13–6. Should be Having lost the first two frames to Wych, Thorburn built a 5–3 lead at the end of their first session and, after having led 9–3 and 10–6, progressed 13–6.
  • their match report as "the best win of his career." Period outside of quotes
  • Their second session finished at 7–7, and Stevens made a number of mistakes during the third session, including missing a black from its spot when he was 8–9 behind, and the session ended with him 9–13 in arrears. Two ", and" in the sentence. Consider splitting after "at 7–7".
  • Thorburn was 5–3 ahead of Taylor after their first session, and having won eight consecutive frames to lead 10–3, was 11–4 up at the end of the second session. Move the comma after "session" one word back to after "and"
  • a claim that author and sports statistician Ian Morrison called "unfounded." Period outside of quotes.
  • Writing in The Times, Sydney Friskin described the match to this point as a contrast of styles: "the shrewd cumulative processes of Thorburn against the explosive break-building of Higgins." Period outside of quotes
  • In the final session, Higgins won the first frame then Thorburn won the next two, before Higgins equalised at 15–15. Try In the final session, Higgins won the first frame; Thorburn then won the next two before Higgins equalised at 15–15.
  • After the match, Higgins said of Thorburn "he's a grinder", Try After the match, Higgins said of Thorburn, "He's a grinder",
  • In the Snooker world rankings Is this capitalization intended?

This looks good if these grammar errors can be addressed. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 19:16, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comment

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