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Serial Experiments Lain

edit
See sorting old FA archive errors. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:19, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Self-nomination. This article has been made GA a month ago and has been improved since. This place seems like the right one to get more feed back on how to improve. --SidiLemine 17:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note, I am listing this orphaned nom on WP:FAC now. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Please, do not consider this statement as means to assure your vote if I nominate MADLAX. ^^; The article is well written and features a whole lot of sourced explanations of the more incomprehensible aspects of the story, which makes it extremely useful and informative. On the other hand, for those, who have not watched the series, it'll be hard to understand just WHAT was the story about, in other words, the plot summary is very superficial. But then, I agree, it is hard to summarize in words (which should probably be stated more explicitly in the article). And that's my rationale for supporting the nom. --Koveras ☭ 15:04, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional support. It would be nice to see some references from books and more serious academic research. See Google Print for suggestions.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  23:30, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object-- First of all, I commend your bravery in taking on the incredibly daunting task of writing about this intricate series. There are still some problems, though.
    • The controversy section states that the creator considered the piece as a criticism of American culture, but doesn't establish who exactly took issue with this. Who specifically found this controversial?
A link has been added to back this. The fact that Ueda says in an interview that he has had a lot of questions about that might be a hint too. Should I rephrase to include that?--SidiLemine 19:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortuately, you're now citing a forum thread, which WP:V doesn't consider an acceptable source. Even if it did, the response still seems fairly minor -- a couple of dozen comments on the subject on a fan forum is not that notable. Was there really that much controversy about Lain? It seems logical that there'd be some American fans annoyed by the creators' anti-American remarks, there doesn't seem to have been a very significant negative reaction. -- Bailey(talk) 17:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Althought I understand your concern about the verifiability of forums, I couldn't find anything specific on WP:V. The fact that this is a 2002 thread should help assert that I didn't make this up myself. I added two online chats and an interview where Ueda is specifically asked about this statement, and each time this is the only past statement he is asked about. Does this qualify as a controversy? If not I'll have to change the term.--SidiLemine 16:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I changed the term just in case.--SidiLemine 14:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • There seem to be some unsourced statments (and/or original research) in the article. As attested by the difficulty to find a game review online, the game drew little to no attention from the public is a big one; also Somewhat unusual for anime, the opening song is performed in English begs unusual according to who?
OK, these two have been deleted. Please point out if there is still more lurking around.--SidiLemine 19:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Much better, thanks. I will reread throughly and get back to you here, but in the bit about Lonliness as a theme, Friendships turn on the first rumor; even God is said to need believers in order to continue to exist seems like original research. Although this is sourced the the series itself, the idea that these examples relate to an overall theme of lonliness should be advanced in a reliable secondary source or not at all. Similarly A key debate to all interpretations of the series is to decide whether matter flows from thought, or the opposite. looks like it needs to be sourced, and The Be, with the blue "B" and the red "e", is the original logo of Be Inc also. -- Bailey(talk) 17:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if there is a necessity to source stuff that is not stated, like the examples relating to the theme. What would that be based on? I added a ref to the logo of BeOS (not Be, inc., btw).
I am quite sure that there is no practical way to source implicit statements.--SidiLemine 14:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

**I'm not certain about this, since I don't have access to the Animerica article you cite, but the discussion of major themes appears to contain original research, as well. There doesn't seem to be an inline cite for Communication, in its wider sense, is probably the main theme of the series for example; all of the statements of theme should be explictly cited.

done.--SidiLemine 19:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • More sources may be needed in order to approach comprehensiveness. You're not using Visual Experiments Lain or Scenario Experiments Lain as sources; both contain in depth discussion of production, story, and design directly from the creators; also, there's a officially licenced guide to the anime called the "ultimate fan guide", and Anime from Akira to Princess Mononoke: Experiencing Contemporary Japanese Animation by Susan Napier, contains a fair amount of scholarly discussion of Lain and its themes.
Unfortunately, I am not fortunate enough to possess these works. Is there a requisite to use every single source on a subject? If there is unaddressed points covered by these, fine; if not, they may wait.--SidiLemine 19:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Using every source available on the subject isn't a requirement, but particularly when you're taking about critical response and critical commentary, it seems that using the best sources available is directly relevant to the comprehensiveness FA requirement. Don't get me wrong -- you've done well with what you've used -- but some of the sources you're using seem weaker, and most likely less in-depth, than some of the other books available, particularly with regards to theme. Lain is a complex series. It bothers me that discussion of the theme of communication, for example, is limited to two sentences, citing only one non-professional online review. If you told me you'd read the other books available and they'd had nothing new on the subject, that would be different, but it seems like an oversight to not look into books with thoughts from the creators of the series, and in at least on case, thoughtful analysis of theme from a professional academic (If I'm remembering correctly, Susan Napier has actually written a number of academic articles largely about Lain and its themes apart from the book I mentioned above). I also think more could be said on production/influences, particulary visual influences (the character design section is rather short) -- Visual Experiments Lain and Scenario Experiments Lain seem like they would help here. -- Bailey(talk) 17:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I see what you mean perfectly. However, I would like to point out that while Visual Experiments Lain is a beautiful artbook, it is just that: an artbook. With tons of screenshots, original drawings, concept art, but practically no functional data. As the name puts it, it is conceived as per se material. On the same level, Scenario Experiments Lain is a collection of episode original scripts, in Japanese, with no annotations. As such, it is useful, but not more than the episodes themeselves. I am reviewing An Omnipresence in the wired, by ABe, to see if there is anything useful to lengthen the character design section. You are still right about Napier, thought. She has some pretty good material, and I'll try hard to get a hand on it.
Visaul Experiments Lain has been used; two anime anthologies, and three essays. "Eva and Lain" by Napier will be added tomorrow.--SidiLemine 14:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Lastly, I'm not sure why there's not a seperate article on the Lain Playstation game, but lumping these together seems odd. It seems as though it would make more sense to have a seperate article on the game and briefly address the game here in summary style. The anime is most notable, but there should be more than enough content to justify seperate pieces on both. -- Bailey(talk) 22:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is all the information I (or anyone I know) gould gather about the game, and I don't feel like it justifies a separate article.--SidiLemine 19:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
With regards to the game being its own article, I'd be willing to defer to whatever the CVG wikiproject thinks, but it seems that we almost always have individual articles for individual game titles even when they're obscure or spinoff of a larger franchise. Regardless, it seems like the coverage of the game presented here falls short of comprehensiveness. I'm concerned that you're only citing a single review -- possibly user submitted? -- from one seemingly non-professional website to cover the whole reception section. I realize the Lain game didn't attract much attention in English-language speaking countries, but to be fair, it was a text-heavy game that was never translated from Japanese. Its reception in Japan seems like it would be far more relevant then its reception, or lackthereof, in countries where it was not released and for which it was not translated. Also, the gameplay section could easilly be expanded; you haven't really described the unusual "Web browser" interface, where you're guiding physically guiding Lain to walk and jump toward media files to select them; discussion of plot could also be more in depth, considering that the creators seemingly thought of the game as a equally important chapter of the story they were telling -- most of that could be sourced to the game itself. -- Bailey(talk) 17:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Given the amount of information I have, I'd be more than happy to cut it off. But what should I include to preserve the comprehensiveness of this article?--SidiLemine 16:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The game has been cut off.--SidiLemine 14:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I've just read through the article, and done some spelling work on it. Some bigger things that need cleaning up are "the assumption that everything flows from human thought, memory, and consciousness ("if there is no record of it, it has never existed")." - Is this a philosophical school? Postmodern, perhaps? Are there any analysises (not a real word, I know) about Serial Experiment Lain's place in philosophical/psychological thought? A further analysis of the schools of thought in Lain would be brilliant.

I never found one, so that would probably have to be OR.
When the Machines Stop: Fantasy, Reality, and Terminal Identity in Neon Genesis Evangelion and Serial Experiments Lain and also Problems of Existence in Japanese Animation by Susan Napier address this; probably Anime from Akira to Princess Mononoke: Experiencing Contemporary Japanese Animation, too. Also Serial Experiments: Lain as a Reflection of Modern Japanese Anxieties in the Digital Era by Mitchell Tribbett comes up via google scholar, although I can't seem to find the full text. -- Bailey Note - the full text of "Serial Experiments: Lain as a Reflection of Modern Japanese Anxieties in teh Digital Era is available here: http://www.corneredangel.com/amwess/papers/lain_essay.doc (talk)
Gee. I see myself cornered. Thanks a lot for the good refs. As said above, I'll try to get them (aaaargh no library in Mauritania!!!)--SidiLemine 16:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Consistency in capitalisation of The Wired (the Wired, the wired?) needs to happen.

Done

Wording - "only actual friend" - her only true friend?

Done

Find kanji and romanisations for the other characters too. Which episode is Image:Lain hacker small.jpg from? It's in the episodes section.

Moved. Will put more appropriate one.

Misspellings in quotes need to be followed by (sic).

Is this part of a guideline? I couldn't find it at WP:MOS.

"It is then no surprise that influences are scarce at best." - could be "It is then no surprise that concrete influences are scarce at best." (or acknowledged, or clear, or something that means specific).

Done.

"Yoshitoshi ABe confesses to have never read manga as a child, as it was "off-limits" in his household,[1] so he didn't have manga influences generally expected from anime and manga artists. " This last part needs clarifying, I think. I've done a possible re-write below. Yoshitoshi ABe confesses to have never read manga as a child, as it was "off-limits" in his household,[2] so it is unlikely that he had artistic influences from other manga artists, as would be the norm.

Done.

"Close the world, Open the NeXT" is the slogan for the Serial Experiments Lain Playstation video game. NeXT was the company that produced NeXTSTEP, which later evolved into Mac OS X after Apple bought NeXT. At the end of episodes 1-12 the screen says "To Be Continued." The Be, with the blue "B" and the red "e", is the original logo of Be Inc.. - These seem to stand awkwardly, without connection to the rest of the paragraph.

Done

The Lain franchise was originally conceived to connect across several forms of media (anime, video games, manga). - Is this part of a wider trend?

It is considered "not unusual" by the producers. does that warrant mention?
Update: Included "not unusual" in (removed to own article) game section.--SidiLemine 10:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In the themes section, you mention Rein, Lein and Lain - can you please provide links to more information about who they are, exactly? Even people who have watched the whole series through may get confused.

I never found official sources specifying that - but I could probably enumerate the three personnalities - Malkinann 09:16, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please see answers above in bold.--SidiLemine 11:31, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object 3rd level headings, single subsections (4.1, 5.11) which cause a lopsided ToC. Excessive bolded text. Align images to the left at the beginning of a section. The "Serial Experiments Lain (PlayStation)" infobox should be at the beginning of the section, not the end. Images should be a consistent size. Suggest u do not use a set px value. =Nichalp «Talk»= 03:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
All demands have been met. Please advise if any other.--SidiLemine 18:35, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It still looks messy with the bold text. I'm sorry about the left align, I meant right. =Nichalp «Talk»= 13:37, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I've removed all bolded text. All images aligned to the right. --SidiLemine 14:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is this part of a guideline? I couldn't find it at WP:MOS. - it may not be - that's just something that I've always seen. take a little look at Sic. It is considered "not unusual" by the producers. does that warrant mention? - Yeah, if you can quote it. I'm thinking a little of the .hack series, where it's a multimedia giant - that'd be part of establishing a connection to the wider world? I never found official sources specifying that - but I could probably enumerate the three personnalities - Maybe Lain herself (selves?) should have their own article? Also, just doublecheck that all the links are relevant and non-red. - Malkinann 01:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the tip. As I thought, sic doesn't apply to all citations between brackets, but to citations with unusual or surprising spelling in them. I'll check for those and apply.
I'm not sure I get what you mean about the .hack series. Can you explain?
Well, a separate article for Lain is an idea, but I'd still lack sources linking names to personnalities. I'll enumerate the personalities in the article, thought.
Links checked.--SidiLemine 09:32, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In .hack, there have been many permutations of the story throughout various media. I think it's been called part of a wider multimedia trend, that has become more apparent recently. I thought that the multimedia of Lain could maybe have been said to be part of this multimedia trend? If you can manage to find something that says this, it would be like a comment on the multimedia of Lain as part of a wider trend.
Also, why does the List of Serial Lain Experiments episodes simply duplicate what's in the article already? Do you really need the separate list if it fits in the main article?- Malkinann 10:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Right. I've included the comment from the authors about it being common in Japan; I'm still looking for something to link it to .HACK or else. About the episodes, I need to delete the List article; at first it was way too long for the main article, but now it's OK.--SidiLemine 12:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I love the idea of Lain as an FAC, so I'll try to help here.
  • This section seems extremely comma-happy and is somewhat difficult to read for that reason. Simplified
    • ("if there is no record of it, it has never existed")
  • Source this to the episode where it is from (using an inline citation). Done
    • Instead of the traditional linear events depiction, the series consists more of a collection of philosophical themes (episodes are named layers), and a cross-reflection on all of them.
  • The comma in this sentence is incorrect IIRC, and the parenthesis are very awkward. Try to integrate facts into the sentence rather than separating them with parenthesis. Done
    • It is asserted that if this was to be linked to a system that enables unconscious communication between people and machines without physical interface (eg. using the Schumann resonance)
  • Same as the above. Integrate the parenthesis statement into the sentence and explain a bit more. Someone unfamiliar with what Schumann Resonance is and its relation to Lain would have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Well, I tried :). Is it OK or should I explain some more?
    • as the sum of all consensus.
  • Explain this further. Reality would be the sum of all consensus of what? As someone who saw Lain, I know what you mean, but it is not reader-friendly. Developped, added link.
    • It is explained that he included pirate code to give himself total control of the Wired (through the system described above), then managed to “upload” his consciousness into the Wired, and died a few days after.
  • "Pirate code"? Again, avoid parenthesis. I think the last comma is incorrect also. Rephrased
    • At some point, Masami explains that Lain herself is the artefact by which the wall between the virtual and material worlds is to fall, and that he needs her to get to the Wired and “abandon the flesh” (as he did) in order to achieve his plan.
  • Parenthesis again. OK
    • In the end, the viewer sees how Lain, after much introspection, realises that she has absolute power over everyone's mind, and so, over reality itself. Her dialogues with different versions of herself show how she feels outcast from the material world, and how she is afraid to live in the Wired, where she has the possibilities, but also the responsibilities, of a goddess.
  • You are very, very comma happy here. OMG I didn't realise.
    • The key designer of Protocol 7. While working for Tachibana Labs, he illicitly included some pirate code enabling him to control the whole protocol at will, and "embedded" his own consciousness in the protocol. Shortly after, he was fired for this by Tachibana Labs and soon found dead on a railway.
  • "Pirate code" again, along with the comma after "at will". Done

I might go through the rest later, but this is what I found at a first glance (up to the character section). — Dark Shikari talk/contribs 22:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that, looking forward for the rest. Any insights on how to easily includes interpretations of the show by various scholars?--SidiLemine 13:50, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe have a section called 'Critical reception', or something? Maybe it should be paired with the Themes section. "Serial Experiments: Lain as a Reflection of Modern Japanese Anxieties in the Digital Era, by Michael Tribett. Anthropology of Japan, Reed College.</ref>" - this reference is broken. "Close the world, Open the nExt" I'm pretty sure was used in the anime as well as the video game... Is MiB a fan term or used in the series? - Malkinann 21:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gonna read through some of the rest now.
    • Alice/Arisu Mizuki (瑞城ありす, Mizuki Arisu?): Lain's classmate. Her only true friend throughout the series, Alice is a devoted friend and has a simple, sincere personality. She secretly has a crush on one of the teachers at her school.
  • You used "friend" twice in an awkward way. Better word choice. replaced by confident
    • At a certain point through the series, her consciousness is seriously damaged by a set of violent hallucinations when she asks Lain about a strange scene she witnessed that afternoon in Shibuya.
  • Explain this further. It sounds like you're going somewhere... and then you don't.developped and explained through citation
    • This top executive from Tachibana Labs has his own agenda that he carries through the use of the Men in Black. He looks forward to the arrival of a real God through the Wired, and he also orchestrated the death of the Knights.
  • Turn this into "...God through the Wired. He also orchestrated the death of the Knights.", I think.tweaked a little: He looks forward to the arrival of a real God through the Wired and orchestrates the Knights' mass assassination for obscure reasons.
    • The authors have been asked recurrently
  • This seems like an attempt to get a wiktionary link in there. Recurrently doesn't seem like the right word, for some reason. removed
    • Serial Experiments Lain is not a conventionally linear story, but "an alternative anime, with modern themes and realisation",[26] with themes ranging from the theological to the psychological, and are dealt with in a number of ways, from classical dialogue to image-only introspection, passing by interrogation of imaginary characters.
  • Holycrapohmygodthecommasarepainful! Multiple sentences, or at least dump some commas! sentences splitted, commas removed
    • wanted to show the audience (preferably between 14 and 15)
  • This seems somewhat disconnected... integrate the parenthesis into the sentence as before. tried: "... feelings". Director Nakamura wanted to show the audience - and particularly viewers between 14 and 15 - "the multidimentional...
    • dialogues between Rein, Lein, and Lain
  • Explain this a bit more--who are Rein, Lein, and Lain? We don't know at this point in the article.Expanded, explained, added two refs and an image. As I said before, I can't tell who's Rein or Lein, but I think it sheds enough light on the business as is.
    • Update Removed specific names and left only kanji/katakana/latin.
    • The distance with traditional games is made even bigger
  • Horrible writing, should be easy to fix though. Lain distances itself even more from classical games...
    • Opposite to the anime, the game drew little to no attention from the public.
  • "Unlike the anime" maybe?OK
    • There was also a short manga produced, but like the game it was only released in Japan.
  • Could be written in a somewhat more sophisticated manner. "There was... but like...," etc.A manga was also produced, and like the PlayStation game was only released in Japan.... Don't know if it's much better, but if someone wants to take a go at it I'd be glad.
Thanks a lot for all that. The text is much, much better now.--SidiLemine 12:32, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How does "Rein", "Lain" and "Lein" - the english fan names, I assume - correspond with Kanji-Lain, Katakana-Lain, and Roomaji-Lain? You might also want to put the entire article through a spellchecker, and get someone experienced to copyedit it. - Malkinann 00:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Object. 1a. I shouldn't easily be able to find flaws such as:
    • "The video game, that share with it only the themes and main character, was never released outside of Japan." (In the lead, no less.)
    • Again in the lead: " her inexpressive older sister Mika, her cold-as-ice mother, and her father obsessed with computers"—Make the grammar in this list consistent (see this for hints on listing technique). "computer-obsessed father" is what you want.
    • Lead: "Serial Experiments Lain relies heavily on philosophical subjects such as Reality, Identity, and Communication and focuses on Lain Iwakura, an adolescent girl living in suburban Japan." Two quite different ideas uncomfortably jammed into a single sentence.
    • "The whole story is primarily based on the assumption that everything flows from human thought, memory, and consciousness. [3][4] Given this setting, events on screen can be considered as hallucinations of Lain, of other protagonists, or even of Lain making up other people’s hallucinations. Furthermore, hoaxes are central to the plotline, so even the offscreen voices or narrations' information cannot be trusted." An assumption is a setting? "Furthermore" should be removed, because it doesn't effectively link the last sentence to the previous statements: it's just not flowing logically, or assumes too much background knowledge, or both.

I won't read further. What I've seen thus far indicates that the whole article needs a serious re-write. There are good WPian writers in this area, and you need to enlist at least one to bring this vaguely within the ambit of Criterion 1a. Definitely not there yet. Tony 12:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose on criterion 1a as per Tony. This article needs at least 3-4 copyeditors; its scenerio rivals ANH. I'll be willing to help, but I can't do it alone since I've never seen the series. — Deckiller 01:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also, why a spoiler warning in a section labeled "plot"? — Deckiller 02:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks a lot for the copyedit. I see how it is necessary now. I'm trying to get around to get good editors to help. The spoiler warning, if not mandatory, seems like a curteous thing to do. The thing is that this plot explains the whole series to the very end, and some might think it's just a synopsis as sometimes seen, with the first episodes and the general story outline.--SidiLemine 12:46, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • No problem; I just wanted to make a few fixes to show how it can be improved. Outside copyeditors who have never seen the series (like me) are key, because it's such a complex project. I recommend finding another two or so copyeditors to finish the article up, then it should be ready for FA status. As for spoilers, yeah, it's used in some projects, but not in others. — Deckiller 13:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: It is one of the more interesting anime series, the article is well referenced, well formatted, and it has relevant images. I would love to have this as a featured article, but it is currently undergoing substantial changes as a result of this FAC, making it too unstable to evalute right now. After substantial content changes has been made, it needs to be copy-edited. Is it possible to put this FAC on hold for a week, or does it need to be re-submitted? --GunnarRene 15:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • comment Actually, seeing how messed up this nom is getting, re-submission doesn't seem like a bad idea at all...--SidiLemine 17:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • revision of comment The last demand is for a good copyedit. There might be some adding of reference afterwards or in the meantime (like for the design of lain's hairstyle and bear pyjamas, or adding Napier's main lain article to the reception), but that should hardly be a reason to oppose. I don't know if it's better for the process to renominate or to put on hold.

Comment: Maybe the Character Design section needs more stuff in it? Certainly about Lain and her other personalities, and the god of the Wired, if no-one else. Napier's Lain/Evangelion article has been removed from the journal's website by her request, so unless someone's got a backissue, it won't be possible to use it as a source.- Malkinann 20:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, we can use it as a source, although it's less convenient. It does still exist in a scholarly journal although it's not available on the website. --GunnarRene 21:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and ordered it via my university library. No telling how long it will take though. --GunnarRene 21:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have received it. User:GunnarRene/Sources#Science fiction --GunnarRene 14:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Can you please be a little more specific? - Malkinann 22:15, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Message left on talk page.--SidiLemine 11:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There are sections without references, and there is at least one {{cn}}. I hold references to be very important for featured articles. Hurricanehink (talk) 14:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Withdrawal I am hereby withdrawing this nomination for the time being. The reasons are: 1) Possible rearrangements of article: merging of character andplot sections, movement of media to other article, addition of three new print sources, and major copyedit needed. Will re-submit when all have been attended to.--SidiLemine 10:10, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ "Anime Jump!: Lain Men: Yoshitoshi ABe". 2000. Retrieved 2006-09-16.
  2. ^ "Anime Jump!: Lain Men: Yoshitoshi ABe". 2000. Retrieved 2006-09-16.
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