Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of The Elder Scrolls video games/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 14:21, 25 February 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of The Elder Scrolls video games

Nominator(s): — ΛΧΣ²¹ 04:53, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Elder Scrolls (abbreviated as TES) is an action role-playing open world video game series developed by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks. The Elder Scrolls games take place on the fictional world of Nirn, on the continent of Tamriel, a large landmass divided into nine provinces. The actual Elder Scrolls play a very limited role in the storyline of the series, serving only as framing plot device, and are rarely referred to in-game, or even in the in-game literature. The first game, The Elder Scrolls: Arena, was released in 1994. It was intended for players to assume the role of an arena combatant, but development shifted the game into a role-playing game (RPG), beginning a tradition that persists throughout the series' history. The first nomination failed because after two users opposed based on a misleading interpretation of the forking criteria for featured lists, I decided to withdraw the nomination and focus on other things. As I think it meets the criteria (or its very close to it), I bring this back again to FLC. Thanks. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 04:53, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Status 04:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Status:

"abbreviated as TES" → I don't see a point in this. It isn't abbreviated as such later on in the article.
- Removed.
"on the fictional world of Nirn" → "in the fictional world of Nirn"
- Fixed,
Why is it important to say when Skyrim was announced?
- Removed.
Publisher → Publisher(s)
- Fixed.
Release date → Release date(s)
- ~~Uhmmm. Not yet.~~ Done. Added "Release dates" when multiple dates exist.
I wouldn't say listing the genre is important, as it's the same for every game.
- I have, just in case a game with a different genre is released.

— Statυs (talk, contribs) 03:57, 28 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't look like you've implemented any changes in response to Status' comments yet. I agree with all of them except the thing about Publisher and Release date. The fix you made during the Crystal Dynamics FLC to detect the number of publishers and react accordingly is cool and you should keep it. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:49, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I haven't yet, yes. I will take a look when I have time. Regards. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 00:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Status 04:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Axem Titanium (talk) 15:56, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

;Comments from Axem Titanium

I'm curious why you decided to make a new list entry template (Template:ListEntry/VG) instead of using the more popular Template:Video game titles? It seems slightly inefficient to list out platforms visually like that and also have the platform-specific release dates under bullet points elsewhere. Not necessarily a criticism, just curious.
- This design is better for this type of games and developers (western). The template was discussed during a previous FLC I had (that was promoted) and no issues were raised. I just like this colour-oriented design :)
  - I took a look at your other FLC (I'm assuming you're referring to Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Crystal Dynamics video games/archive1) and it looks like at least 4 people raised issues with it, including an administrator and a FLC director. I'm not going to raise a stink about it here but I would highly recommend taking NapHit's advice to "discuss the merits of each template at the relevant wiki project", in this case, WP:VG. I wasn't the one who took the initiative to write this list, so I'm not going to impose my preferences on it, but please do open the discussion. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:49, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - I will diligently start a discussion sometime in the future about it. Thanks for your thoughts about this matter :) — ΛΧΣ²¹ 20:16, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      - Template:Video game titles should be speedy deleted due its ugliness tbh (kidding, of course). Status 04:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm confused about the way refs 8-23 are placed. Are they citations for the name of the game? They appear to have multiple "sub"-references in each and it's not clear why. I'm guessing they're for the different release dates by platform? If so, it would make more sense to simply place the individual citations after the release dates themselves so readers can check the correct one for each.
- Hmm, The individual bullet-listed refs are packed becase they provide a more easy way to see which refs are supporting which game; it provides order. Having individual citations after the releasde dates will make the table look like a citation farm, which is ugly. This style of citation was approved on my previous list-game FLC.
  - I'm worried that clarity in citation is being sacrificed for aesthetics here. I look at ref 21 and I see 6 bullet points to 6 different places and I don't know which one is citing what. It's difficult for me to verify the information that you're presenting because you're not saying where you got which piece of info. If you're worried about organizing references in an orderly way by game, consider converting to WP:LDR format, which was designed for this exact purpose. User:PleaseStand/References segregator is a good tool for this as well. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:49, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - I added the correspondent platform at the title of the reference and in parenthesis (e.g. "game Name (PS3)"). Of course, I would have no problem in adding the specific platform at the start of each bullet to make identification more easier. Any idea you have in mind will be greatly appreciated, as long as you don't ask me to to split the bulleted lists into separate ones u.u — ΛΧΣ²¹ 20:16, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      - Yeah, at the start of the bullet might help. You generally have to assume nothing from the reader and make it as obvious as possible. I notice that for some of your bulleted refs, they're cited multiple times because of the notes section (e.g. ref 10, 18, 19). I would definitely separate the citation for the notes in question into their own ref names. When I click ref 19 for note c, I have no idea which individual link is the correct citation for "The Xbox 360 version of The Elder Scrolls IV: Knights of the Nine is only available through Xbox Live Marketplace". Axem Titanium (talk) 16:25, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        Okay. I will do this today :) — ΛΧΣ²¹ 16:50, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        Whenever you get around to this, I'd be willing to support. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:05, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        Done, I think. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 05:51, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The lead feels a bit long and essentially repeats the information contained in the list itself, i.e., the names and release dates of every game. I would much rather hear more about the gameplay advances between games (some of which is already there) and the common elements of the setting. I think this can be done in two paragraphs. See also some of the other WP:VG featured lists for lead-writing inspiration.
- I don't know. I will take a look. I think that given the long list of games the series have, a lead like that was grantes, but I can chop it down.
  - I have chopped down the list to two paragraphs. Take a look. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 02:23, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - I like it much better. :) Axem Titanium (talk) 03:07, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      - Yay! — ΛΧΣ²¹ 03:13, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Axem Titanium (talk) 01:55, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Expanded some answers. More to come, I guess. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 20:16, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Axem Titanium (talk) 15:56, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Per 3.b I am not convinced that the tables cannot reasonably be included at the end of Development of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Nergaal (talk) 20:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- How can a table of all games released for a series be included at the end of an article of the development of only one of those games? This makes no sense. 3b has no weigh here, Nergaal. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 20:10, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - ^ What he said. Status 04:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - As I've said before, I really do prefer Template:Video game titles to Template:ListEntry/VG, but it's an aesthetic choice. I'm also fine with the multi-citation refs you have; it's not as immediate what goes with what as it would be if you stuck each ref in the appropriate table cell, but it's honestly not much different than sticking them all in a "ref" column. My one comment- seeing as there are two books and can only be a handful of albums, have you considered expanding the list into "List of The Elder Scrolls media"? Not required, but I think it would work well. --Pres N 18:41, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I may expand it later. I was thinking about it, but given that I won't have much time soon, I thonk I won't be able to expand it anytime soon. Cheers. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 03:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would also like to see this whenever you get a chance. Axem Titanium (talk) 15:56, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quick comment – In refs 9 and 10, there are books that use pp. for a single-page cite; those should be p. instead. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:16, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 01:06, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.