Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2006 November 1

Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current Help Desk pages.

November 1

wikipedia statatics

While back i saw a page which had all the keywords used to get to wikipedia ... aka search queries from google. But i can't find it now ... someone help?

Redirect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Im_not_dead_tour When I go to this page, the redirect link does not work correctly... can anyone help? Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.46.162.204 (talk)

The link you posted was a double redirect. (It pointed to I'm not dead tour, and not I'm Not Dead Tour.) I've corrected the redirect so it points to the correct article. Phydaux 23:57, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Listing Book ISBN numbers

I've been surfing the Wikipedia directions all day and now I can't find my way back to the the correct way to link to ISBN numbers for books. Is there a Wikipedia editing search page? Thank you very much in advance! Freedompress 01:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

To my own great surprise, I immediately found it here: WP:ISBN. :-) --Tkynerd 01:21, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! I am immensely grateful to all of you on the help desk.Freedompress

Reference Link Editing

Hello..

In regards to this article -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Note

I was wishing to add these sites as a reference to it http://www.death-notes.com/ http://forums.death-notes.com/index.php But i'm unsure as to whether this is allowable or not. If possible may i find out whether i can add these as reference links or could you add them if you have time?

Looking forward to your response.

Speaking as someone who has no knowledge of the subject: I thought that first link was commercial, but on further examination it doesn't seem to be selling anything, so as long as I'm right about that, it should be OK. The second link (which of course is to the forums on the same site) should be OK if (1) the site really is non-commercial, or (2) the forums aren't to any substantial degree tools for the site to flog products. --Tkynerd 03:14, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

viewing maps of places

how can i find a place on a map in wikipedia ? 61.2.169.210 02:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not the best resource for this type of search. I'd suggets Google Maps. Hyenaste ^(tell) 02:50, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Hidden characters?

There's a "-->" at the beginning of the article for Major Harris that I can't find to delete. What is causing it? Clarityfiend 03:52, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems to have something to do with the template {{Infobox NFL player}}. -- Natalya 04:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

A riddle wrapped in an enigma - The pipe character in Template:Infobox_City

Regarding lines 5-6 of {{Template:Infobox_City}}:

.
.
.
5> {{#if:{{{image_skyline|}}}| 
6> {{!}} colspan="2" style="text-align: center; padding: 0.7em 0.8em 0.7em 0.8em;;" {{!}} [[Image:{{{image_skyline|}}}|{{#if:{{{imagesize|}}}|{{{imagesize}}}|250px}}|none|{{{image_caption|Skyline of {{{official_name|}}}}}}]]{{#if:{{{image_caption|}}}|<small>{{{image_caption|}}}</small>}}
.
.
.

Indented for logical structure like this:

50> {{#if:{{{image_skyline|}}}|
60>  {{!}} colspan="2" style="text-align: center; padding: 0.7em 0.8em 0.7em 0.8em;;" {{!}}
61>  [[Image:{{{image_skyline|}}}
62>   |{{#if:{{{imagesize|}}}|{{{imagesize}}}|250px}}
63>   |none
64>   |{{{image_caption|Skyline of {{{official_name|}}}}}}
65>  ]]
66>  {{#if:{{{image_caption|}}}
67>   |<small>{{{image_caption|}}}</small>
68>  }}

And transcribed into pseudocode like this:

500> If image_skyline <> null
600>  {{!}} colspan="2" style="text-align: center; padding: 0.7em 0.8em 0.7em 0.8em;;" {{!}}
610>  DisplayImage (image_skyline, size, float, caption)
620>   If imagesize <> null
621>    Let size = imagesize
622>   Else
623>    Let size = 250px
624>   EndIf
630>   Let float = none
640>   Let caption = {{{image_caption|Skyline of {{{official_name|}}}}}}
650>  End DisplayImage
660>  If image_caption <> null
670>   Display <small>{{{image_caption|}}}</small>
680>  EndIf

If my analysis above is accurate (if it is not, please explain), I have three "throw away" observations:

• The If at 500 is not closed with an EndIf (at least not in this portion of code - but this is not my main concern tonight).
• The second ; of ;; in 600 is superfluous (and most likely harmless).
• The sense of lines 64-67 escapes me ( - again, not a big concern tonight; just "clearing the decks").

Now for what I really want to know:

• What is the difference between {{imagesize|}} and {{imagesize}} as they are used in {{#if:{{{imagesize|}}}|{{{imagesize}}}|250px}} in line 62 above?

• Is the pipe character really necessary in {{{image_skyline|}}} in line 61? In {{{official_name|}}} in line 64? Or {{{image_caption|}}} in line 67?

• I understand that {{!}} is converted to a pipe character on transclusion, but is there a good reason why line 600 is the only place {{!}} is used in this segment?

Please resist the temptation to refer me to the Wikipedia documentation on the matters of hash functions, parameters, and the pipe character, etc. I've already read all of it I could find. It's far too 'legalistic' and verbal without sufficient practical illustrations and examples to be much use to me and my lopsided (left-sided? right-sided? I forget which is which.) brain.

Thanks.

--RalphThayer 04:38, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

• {{{imagesize|}}} has a blank default, so that if no parameter is given it becomes a blank string. In line 62, the blank string is then detected by #if: to check whether the parameter has been given or not. {{{imagesize}}} would return {{{imagesize}}} with no parameters; for instance, the Help Desk doesn't have any parameters, so they appear as and {{{imagesize}}}. (The first version, with a | at the end, won't show up at all.)
• The pipe characters in lines 61 and 64 are unnecessary. The pipe character in line 67 hides the caption if none has been given.
• {{!}} becomes a | character, as you say. It's used to generate table markup inside the infobox (which also uses the | character), because a literal | would have a meaning inside the if; the table markup isn't generated anywhere else in the segment.

For the benefit of people reading this from the archives, the documentation is at Wikipedia:Template namespace, m:Help:Template, m:Help:Parser function, and m:ParserFunctions. --ais523 08:42, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

searching

I am searching for a page that I do believeis on this wiki thing what I'n looking for is a Don McLean page that when you get there there is a melodious music not vocal that on the bottom of the page there is a button that says write Don I need that page for both the music and the address button so if you could tell me how to get there I would be very appriciated thanks and please send your response to my address at <email removed> and once again thank you!

military brats

I am working on editing a page military brats. At the end of the page there are number of famous military brats. This list is pretty long and cumbersome. I was wondering if there was a better way to do this? I was thinking of columns or tables of some sort? Any advice on how to improve this section?Balloonman 08:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The most important thing this article needs is sources. There isn't a single one (except an informal reference to a conference speech)! Also the "possible military brats" section should be removed immediately as speculation (if the people are living). Notinasnaid 09:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I didn't capitalize correctly.

For my entry on Faruq Z Bey, I didn't capitalize the Z or Bey. Is there any easy way to correct entry headline?

goto the page at the top there is a tab that reads "Move." Use the move button and give it a new name.Balloonman 09:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course, if you've only been here a very short time you won't have the "Move" tab at the top of the screen just yet, in which case someone else will have to move the page for you. You can request that it be done at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Though, I'll just look and see if it's done and if not, I'll do it for you. Dismas|^(talk) 09:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Now that I've looked at the page though, are you sure it shouldn't be "Faruq Z. Bey"? Notice the period after the "Z". The first sentence leads me to believe that the Z is his middle initial, am I correct? Dismas|^(talk) 09:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Country Code

why is that .ch country code for Switzerland?

take a look at the article switzerland where it is explained in the second paragraph.Balloonman 09:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Or even .ch! -- Chuq 12:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

As a note, knowledge questions not pertaining to the use of Wikipedia belong at the Reference Desk; even if we can answer them here it's often a better idea to place them there where more knowledgeable editors will be able to help you, and to help other people find your question and avoid repeats. —Keakealani 15:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

How do i

How do i Create my Own Userboxes (I love entei 09:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC))

There are instructions at Wikipedia:Userboxes. --ais523 09:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

"Unpopular" sources

In trying to help with a content dispute, I find myself in need of more information on how to deal with unpopular sources. By that I mean sources, which seem to be reputable, but which express a conclusion that the mainstream might not agree with BUT where no published rebutals exist (so creating a rebutal would seem to be original research). These must be common in fields like archaeology or literature where novel conclusions may be drawn from primary sources. What I'd like to see is some good examples of articles which include references to such sources which still maintain NPOV, while at the same time are more than a collection of assertions from research. Notinasnaid 09:42, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Can you either tell us the article at issue and the specific content of the dispute, or describe an analogous situation? I at least find it difficult to understand exactly what you mean in the hypothetical.--Fuhghettaboutit 15:41, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I haven't looked at the claims in detail (I'm trying to avoid getting into detail), but suppose it was like this: an ancient artifact is found. A study (in a journal) suggests it is a very early form of printing. No known source repudiates this, but an editor argues it is clearly nonsense. They might be right, but the source presumably is there. Let's create a possible analogy: a Shakespeare scholar has just published their work showing that Hamlet was really written by Shakespeare's previously unknown evil twin. This is in a peer reviewed journal, and is new. There is no other source available on this claim. How should it be presented? (Note that I am not saying that the evil twin theory is wrong, but we can expect it to be roundly criticised in time). Notinasnaid 21:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

If it is presented at all, it should be presented as it is: the claim of a single person, i.e. "Johnson (2006) suggests that Hamlet was written by ..." There's a strong argument that it shouldn't be included, however, as WP:NPOV#Undue weight can be invoked ("views held only by a tiny minority of people should not be represented as though they are significant minority views, and perhaps should not be represented at all"). Ziggurat 23:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Agree with the above. And if the assertion by implication contradicts the vast majority of sources, even though those sources are silent with regard to the specific claim, it probably doesn't belong even in a mention, though it would depend on the prominence of the source. If the New York Times science section has an article on a controversial claim, then that might deserve a mention. However, if it did, then it is highly unlikely that the claim would not be contradicted in other reliable sources unless the article was published yesterday.--Fuhghettaboutit 00:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Boarding Accomodation

Can you please tell me if your school allows visitors to stay in your dormitaries during the school holidays. I am the manager of the North Harbour Under 17 Boy's Softball Team and we are looking for accommodation mid January 2007 12th - 17th we would require meals and laundry facilities. Mark Wallace My email address is [removed for your protection].

We are not a school. Can I ask you what makes you think that we are? Notinasnaid 10:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Ashoka the Great

I have browsed through the article on Ashoka the Great. It seems to be largely based on Strong's "The Legend of King Asoka". That book is "A Study and Translation of the Asokavadana", which is only once source of information about the Emperor. Although the article cites Romila Thapar's "Asoka and the Decline of the Maurya's", that work does not seem to have been used. In her book, Thapar, who is an eminent historian, sifts through all the legends to cull a credible history of Asoka's life. Her work should be the basis for any article written on Asoka. As it stands, your article is full of errors and makes little sense. By disseminating poor information, it is disservice scholars and the general public. The article has too many errors to correct. It would be best to start afresh.

Thank you for your comments. You would be very welcome to contribute to the article. I recommend posting your comments on the article talk page, in the hope of reaching a consensus with other interested editors. Notinasnaid 17:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia's being a b***h

For a half hour or so this morning pages loaded really slowly and failed to load a bunch of times, and since then, whenever I go to an article from my watchlist, then use the back button to go back to the watchlist, it's showing me a version of my watchlist that's two hours old. I've tried CTRL+REFRESH, and obviously just refreshing the page works, but since WP is still slower than usual it's a pain, and sometimes I prefer to go back to a version of my watchlist from a few minutes ago, rather than the most recent version. Any ideas? Anchoress 18:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Climate sections in state/country articles...

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but if not, I guess someone can redirect to the right place. Growing up, I always read a lot of paper encyclopedias, and one thing I always found in articles on states and countries was a section on climate. Now, I've been editing wikipedia for a while, and I notice there are numerous articles on states/countries/geographical areas which lack any sort of mention of the climate of the area. IMO, this is encyclopedic- I can see someone, say, going to vacation in New York wondering what to bring for clothing, looking up the New York article... and finding nothing. So I've spent a lot of time lately writing sections on climate for about half the states(and expanding several others- such as the climate section for Kansas which didn't even mention tornadoes).

But I am only one person, and I don't ave time to do all the research necessary to add sections to eery state and country. So I created this template:

in the hopes that this can maybe become more than a one man effort. My question is, should I slap this template at the top of every state/country article I find which lacks a climate section, put it on the talk page, or simply say on the talk page "This article could use a climate section." Obviously, if I put it on the top of every page which needs it (and in my opinion, this is a huge need), then chances are good it would be corrected quickly. But I've been here long enough to know that many are very protective of their state's/country's page WP:OWN, and want to proceed cautiously. Suggestions ? Feel free to comment here(I will be watching) or on my talk page.

Personally I think it's a great idea, but IMO it should go on talk pages. I'm sure there is a way to automate the application process, using a bot. Anchoress 18:54, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea to me too. I also agree with Anchoress that this should be a talk page template. I think it would be good to add into the template that the material should be added using reliable sources. Maybe: "Please add such information if you can citing to reliable sources!" or "Please remove this message once this section has been written using reliable sources." I think this topic would be a more appropriate fit for posting at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals). --Fuhghettaboutit 19:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Great idea. Terrific template. I would change just one thing. Instead of "ubiquitous" I would put simply "a must" or "a must-have". -GrahameKing 20:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

To open a new language wiki

hi; what i got to do to open a wiki in a new language?? thank you.--71.246.109.96 19:27, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

See m:Help:How to start a new Wikipedia. Jacek Kendysz 19:42, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Are "Tips" sites valid External Links?

The Wikipedia Gmail article listed several sites in an "External sites" section that linked to "Tips" sites that provide tips and additional information about the Gmail. These sites were included for well over a year, and now have been removed. The reasons given for the removal were:

"Wikipedia isn't here to provide tips to Gmail users"

and

"Wikipedia is not a list of links. External resource should have and *encyclopedic* value. Links to help page, hints are usually considered not relevant enough."

While I do understand the intent of the removal, I fail to see how listing these sites goes against the guidelines specified in the External links Help page. The links point to Web sites that provide more in-depth information that is not appropriate for inclusion in a Wikipedia article, but expands upon the Wikipedia content.

In fact, the inclusion of Tips sites and similar sites is completely consistent with the content of other "validated" Wikipedia articles, notably Featured Articles that have gone through extensive and rigorous Wikipedia validation. For example:

• In the Featured article about the Canon T90 camera, there is an external link to a Yahoo Group that is listed as "a useful source of T90 and other FD information"
• In the Featured article about OpenBSD there is an external link to "OpenBSD 101", an overview and information site.
• In the Featured article on Windows XP, the first External link listed is for a "Windows XP Tips and Tricks" site.

So what makes the Gmail article so different from other "featured articles" that include similar links, and can these linkes be reverted back in?

Contact the removing user.--Ac1983fan^{(yell at me)} 01:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

H3ll and Hell

How do I see the history of a deleted page? For example I read something that showed proof of admisistrative abuse and when I confronted him about it the admin quickly deleted the whole thing. So now I have no evidenceand cannot read the history. Please help.-- OK U 21:52, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Only administrators can see the history of a deleted page. // Pilotguy (Cleared to land) 22:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Linking To A Wikipedia Article/Partially Quoting An Article

Is simply linking to an article on Wikipedia allowed (as in a forum post, or an email), and are any additional links required, such as a link to the GNU FREE DOCUMENTATION LICENSE (which I currently don't know)? What about partially quoting an article? -- John R. Sellers 22:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Merely linking to a Wikipedia article from another site does not require any mention of licences. It's only if you reproduce any of the content that you would have to worry about additional requirements. More information is at WP:C. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 23:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

PDFs

What are the rules regarding uploading pdf format documents? I am currently generating some diagrams, which I create in pdf format, then export as PNG for uploading. I've released these to public domain, and I'm happy for users to have the pdf as well, if they want the original. Can I upload it as a file, and if so, will it display inline like an image, or can it then be downloaded? — Tivedshambo (talk) 23:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The PNG images are fine for diagrams. See image use policy, on the formats section it says PNG should be for diagrams and such. —Mitaphane _talk 01:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Can the pdf do something that the PNG can't (eg allow a typo in a label to be easily corrected)? If so, then I imagine that the pdf would be handy to have available.

Ideally all free images/files (including public domain ones etc) should be uploaded to the Commons, our free content repository. That way sister projects will be able to use the images simply. On the technical side, I think pdfs can be uploaded to Wikipedia or Commons (eg and Image:Einmaleins.pdf) and people can download them. I'm not sure if admin access is required, you can just test it out I guess. pdfs seem to display as a wikilink to the file description page, where it can be downloaded from. I'm not sure, but I suppose that if a pdf is useful Commons will want it, but you could ask at their Help desk.--Commander Keane 01:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Contradictory information

I was wondering what the convention is for handling contradictory info on a page. For example on the "Proconsul (genus)" page, it states that there are 4 species, then later that there are "at least 5" species. Also the chimp that this genus was named after is stated to have been "Consul", then later it is said his name is "Pronconsul"

As I don't know which is true I want a banner at the top of the page that says "this article contains contradictory information. If you are an expert on the subject, please edit" or something along those lines. How do I do this? Iffykid 23:45, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Simple simple simple. At the top of the article, place the {{Contradict}} template (just like I've written it there). Then start a discussion on the article's talk page about the contradiction. --Tkynerd 23:47, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

How do I post my article to Wikipedia

I have created an article (Primatte Chromakey Technology). I now want to post it to the Wikipedia. I find a lot of help pages but nothing specifically addresses this issue. Is it automatically posted after a bit when the Wikipedia index is updated? Do I have to remove the template ({{wikify|November 2006}}) indicator? Thanks, Scott <Email Address removed to prevent spam>

The article is already here - Primatte chromakey technology. The template indicates that the article still needs a bit more work - specifically, wikification. Someone will probably remove the template when it's been fixed up a bit. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 00:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

(after edit conflict) As noted above, the article is posted. Correct me if I'm wrong: what you are wondering about is why when you use the search button it doesn't find the article? The reason for that is that the search button only finds articles after the database is indexed, which can take up to a few weeks. By contrast, the Go button links directly to articles, so if you type the article name into the search field and click Go, you will reach the article. The wikify tag has nothing to do with any of this.--Fuhghettaboutit 00:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Page history

how can i find the person who wrote the information on a page? 68.42.164.161 23:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

You can look at the history tab. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 00:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)