Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 January 13

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January 13

Request for comment and appropiate topic area

I'm trying to file a request for comment regarding a dispute that's been going on for over a year regarding the placement of a genetics study within the demographics section of Argentina. But I can't figure out which selection is the appropiate.
The options are the following;

Issues by topic area
Biographies	(watch)	{{RFCbio}}
Economy, trade, and companies	(watch)	{{RFCecon}}
History and geography	(watch)	{{RFChist}}
Language and linguistics	(watch)	{{RFClang}}
Maths, science, and technology	(watch)	{{RFCsci}}
Art, architecture, literature and media	(watch)	{{RFCmedia}}
Politics	(watch)	{{RFCpol}}
Religion and philosophy	(watch)	{{RFCreli}}
Society, sports, law, and sex	(watch)	{{RFCsoc}}

Likeminas (talk) 19:33, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

linking articles

Resolved

I am trying to make the name of the sportsman Robin Mcbryde on the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_athletics_in_the_United_Kingdom_and_Ireland, link to his wikipedia page. I did try, thought I did it right but I don't think I did, I can't make head nor tail of the instructions on linking articles. Any help/advice will be appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jymbo04 (talk • contribs) 01:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind it is working now.

Uploading photo

Hi,

I'm having trouble uploading a new photo to a pre-existing wikipedia page. could you please contact me to help me resolve this?

thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cali12345 (talk • contribs) 00:45, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

What sort of problem are you having? —teb728 t c 01:04, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Your account needs to be autoconfirmed (10 edits and at least 4 days old) before you can upload images. – ukexpat (talk) 01:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

You could submit a request for the image to be uploaded at WP:IFU. Matt (Talk) 03:02, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Alternately, if you own the rights to the photo free and clear, and are going to be uploading it for free distribution under the GFDL liscence anyway, then perhaps you could join Wikimedia Commons instead. There are no autoconfirmation requirements there, and any files uploaded at Commons are free to use at ALL Wikimedia projects, not just English Wikipedia. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 06:49, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

KenConklins Page on Hawaiian Epistomology and Native Hawaiian Education

My name is Kamealoha Hanohano-Smith and I am a Native Hawaiian Educator, who teaches at a Hawaiian Language Immersion School on a Hawaiian Homestead (similiar to an American Indian Reservation)in Hilo, on the Big Island of Hawaii. As I was doing research for a professional development course I am taking, I came across a page in Wikipedia that writes about Native Hawaiian Education written by Mr. Ken Conklin. As a Native Hawaiian I take great offense to pretty much everything in his article, because he paints what I do as a language teacher as racist. What I also note about his page is that there isn't any way that I can edit what he says, most of which are his personal insights that not widely accepted notions of Native Hawaiians and our educational system in Hawaii, the US mainland, and across the globe. I believe he made it this way because he wants to promote an agenda of hate because of his number of negative encounters with native peoples. That's too bad because while there are many natives still living, most of us are of mixed background and have family members that are not ethnically Hawaiian. We truly are a people who have for years been one of inclusiveness. Intermarriage in Hawaii was happening back in the 1800's, years before this idea was acceptable in America and many people who are not Hawaiian speak our language and employed in our immersion schools. There is much in our history and many examples which disprove any assertions made by Mr. Conklin. The idea that are Hawaiian-focused charter schools are exclusive and we only teach kids to play in taro patches is not only not true but really shows that Mr. Conklin at best has a superficial understanding of our native traditions and doesn't appreciate the hardwork we do to teach the children in our schools to be both bilingual and bicultural. We, like any other school in Hawaii have to meet the state performance and content standards; students at our school take these state monitored assessments in both Hawaiian and in English.

If Mr. Conklin is unwilling to open up his page so we can provide comments or counter-arguments, like seems to be the case, I was hoping that Wikipedia would be open to the idea of "us" Hawaiian Language/Culture (not all Native Hawaiians)creating our own page to counter all the negative stuff Mr. Conklins says about Native Hawaiian like myself. Freedom of expression is important and in the past I found myself intriged by many of Mr. Conklins articles because they presented a different view of looking at my people, but lately all of his articles have centered on attacking all that is good that is happening in our community. I know he says alot and writes alot of negative things, but he himself doesn't have a command of the Hawaiian language and to the best of my knowledge doesn't participate in anything in the community to provide solutions to things he see's as problems. He sits behind a computer and just writes nasty things. His article in Wikipedia is no exception. I suppose that if people were to have the ability to edit his article in Wikipedia you would in fact end up with an entirely different page. You and the rest of the world would not be able to recognize the article because there would be so many challenges to everything that he wrote.

I would really like the opportunity to present information on the same topic from the point of view of the Native. There is alot of stuff we need to do better in our Hawaiian-focused Charter Schools. I am the first to admit this, but if Mr. Conklins pages are allowed to stand uncontested, that would be a huge disservice to all the hard working parents, children, teachers, and community members across the nation that have put so much into creating schools that meet the needs of all students, Hawaiian or otherwise.

Me Ka Ha'aha'a (with humility and resolve),

Kamealoha Hanohano-Smith Hilo, Hawaii—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.212.165.182 (talk) 00:59, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I found an article on Conklin at Kenneth R. Conklin, but I cannot find the articles to which you are referring. Would you please post links to them? In any event the best way to deal with issues like this is to discuss them on the talk pages of the relevant articles - click on the "discussion" tab on the article's page. Thanks. – ukexpat (talk) 01:19, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Are you referring to Conklin's own Wiki? If so, that site is not connected in any way with Wikipedia, although it does use the same software. You will have to take up your issues with Conklin directly, I am afraid we cannot help you here on English Wikipedia. – ukexpat (talk) 01:24, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Check an edit, please

Could someone check the validity of the claim made in this edit? I'm at work and don't want to follow the link to check. Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 02:43, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The site works for me. –Capricorn42 (talk) 02:51, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 03:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Quality / Important Scales - How to edit?

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 03:51, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

An article I'm interested in editing has the following in the banner of the talk page:

??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. 

Is there a way to specify the quality or importance of a particular article or is this done by some automated process?

Thanks! 173.71.219.50 (talk) 03:24, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you can do this by editing the banner appropiately. Exactly how to do this will depend on the banner in question, so you'll have to tell us what article you're looking at if you need more information. Algebraist 03:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have included in my original question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Computer-assisted_dispatch 173.71.219.50 (talk) 03:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Replace the code {{Disaster management}} with {{Disaster management|importance=foo|qualityclass=bar}}, where 'foo' is 'Top', 'High', 'Mid' or 'Low' and 'bar' is 'A', 'B', 'C', 'Start' or 'Stub' as appropriate. See Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment for details. Algebraist 03:36, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Excellent! Thanks for such a quick and concise response. 173.71.219.50 (talk) 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Minor change: {{Disaster management|importance=foo|class=bar}} 173.71.219.50 (talk) 03:52, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Duplicate article - what to do?

Resolved

 – Redirect now deleted ukexpat (talk) 03:02, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

An apparently misguided user created the page Ida Ljungqvist Playmate. They did this after I took out some of the non-relevant info that they added to the Ida Ljungqvist article. I guess they thought that the second article belonged to me and they would have to create their own article about the same person. I've copied the singular bit of info that wasn't in the original article from this user's new article. And I've created a redirect out of the Ida Ljungqvist Playmate article to point to the original. Is there anyway to get that redirect page deleted? There's no point in keeping it around. I don't see any CSD justification for deleting a duplicate article, so would this have to be prod'd? Dismas|^(talk) 03:43, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Ukexpat has requested speedy deletion under WP:CSD#R3. Algebraist 03:53, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah! I see. I didn't think that anything applied. Guess I was wrong. Dismas|^(talk) 03:57, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Tabs and other whitespace

How do I display a random number of spaces at a random place in a line? I wan't to do things like this.
The quick brown fox ^jumped over the lazy dog.
When I wrote this, It had six spaces before the word jumped and six more after it. How did I lose them and how do I get them back? Phil_burnstein (talk) 09:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Can be done with HTML or CSS markup. Here is one solution...

The quick brown fox      ^jumped      over the lazy dog.

And here is another...

The quick brown fox ^jumped over the lazy dog.

Look at the edit to see how I did it. Hope that helps. JBarta (talk) 10:04, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

As to why, it is an HTML feature: basically HTML will not display more than one space character. Jbarta used non-breaking spaces, another way you can do the same is with the {{pad}} template and specify the number of spaces. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 12:45, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Removing watermarks from images

I've gone through a number of images from Category:Images_with_watermarks removing watermarks and I'm a little confused about all the various copyright licenses. "Public domain" I understand... no problem removing a watermark from those. But the others? Can someone familiar with the issue give me a simple plain English summary of which watermarks can be removed and which should stay? I'm happy to remove them here and there when I can, but I don't want to create problems. If the issue is complicated or full of gray areas, or depends on this or that, etc... I'll just stick to the public domain images and keep things simple for myself. Any guidance would be appreciated. JBarta (talk) 09:46, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• What kind of information do these watermarks contain? If it's a giant circled C it indicates the image is copyrighted and that it's probably not free. - Mgm|^(talk) 10:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Dan Carey Lacrosse

Just noticed that Dan Carey has an American flag beside his name. He was born and raised in Peterborough Ontario Canada. He is a Canadian Citizen. Hope the flag can be changed at this point. Thank You. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.243.102 (talk) 13:49, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• The article about Dan Carey is correct and hasn't changes since 24 December last year. What article or list are you talking about? - Mgm|^(talk) 13:54, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Searching Wikipedia with Google for: "Dan Carey" finds a few instances of the lacrosse player, for example:

• 2008 Colorado Mammoth season#Roster - which shows an American flag icon next to the name
• 2007 Colorado Mammoth season#Roster - ditto
• 2006 Colorado Mammoth season#Roster - ditto; there may be more, someone can check the rest

Search Wikipedia with Google for: "Dan Carey" lacrosse - may be a more refined search, since there is another Dan Carey.

Note to questioner: when you see a problem on a page in Wikipedia, the Help desk volunteers have no magical way of knowing what page you were looking at, unless you describe it clearly. The best way to describe a page is to link to it. Unfortunately, this is not something that a casual Wikipedia reader would know how to do, as it requires some knowledge of how to edit. --Teratornis (talk) 20:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The Brand Union

Hello,

Today I have attempted to create a wikipedia profile of The Brand Union - the global brand agency that I work for.

We are disullisioned as to why our attempts are imediately deleted when we notice our competitors profiles: Wolff Olins and Landor Associates appearing in a way which we feel has a much more promotional tone than ours.

Please explain why this keeps happening and what changes you suggest we make as it is getting very frustrating!

Many thanks,

Sally Mair

<email removed> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sally Mair (talk • contribs) 14:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello! I've tagged your article for deletion because it does not indicate why your company is notable. The best way to show this is to list independent reliable sources that provide in-depth coverage of your company. Also, please be aware the Wikipedia discourages editors from working on articles where they may have a conflict of interest. Finally, simply because there are other articles that need improvement has no bearing on your article. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 14:46, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Clean-up work has commenced on the articles that you mentioned. --Cameron Scott (talk) 14:47, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Placement of footnotes

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 03:00, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

In the opening paragraph of an article, The Road to Samarcand, I write a sentence which needs two citations, as I see it: "Notable as an example of the author's story-telling ability, it is especially directed at teenage boys." I did not place the footnotes in this sentence, but instead used them later when I returned to the points in the "Plot summary," where the statements were given more detail. Should I have placed the footnotes in the opening paragraph instead? (Please leave notes on article talk page if desired.) Thanking you in advance, Hammerdrill (talk) 15:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

See WP:REFNAME. You can name your ref tags and then use them in more than one place. --Teratornis (talk) 20:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Beautiful! Thank you. Hammerdrill (talk) 22:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Watchlist

Resolved

 – User:Turb0chrg

Hey there! Quick question about the watchlist. For example, I have this entry on mine:

(diff) (hist) . . Talk:Smart grid‎; 12:53 . . (+409) . . Turb0chrg (Talk | contribs) (→gov policy section)

What exactly does the (+409) mean? Is it the difference in bytes of the changes? Couldn't find anything, even on Help:Watching_pages to help me out. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Turb0chrg (talk • contribs) 17:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

That means Turb0chrg did a net addition of 409 characters to the article. –Capricorn42 (talk) 17:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

As Capricorn42 says, the number indicates the number of bytes added or subtracted to the article in question. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 17:19, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks guys! And I see my Talk page has some new stuff on it, cool! Turb0chrg (talk) 17:30, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Purple links

Why is there sometimes purplelinks on pages I haven't visited? 92.25.199.151 (talk) 18:16, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

If they're purple, that means they are in your browser's history. One way or another, your browser has requested and downloaded that page. For what it's worth, I wouldn't worry about it too much. JBarta (talk) 18:19, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Why

Why the h**k do Images have a side-side bar that, if you keep on moving, shows nothing? 92.25.199.151 (talk) 18:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• That is not just restricted to images. It's on all pages. It ensures that people with varying screen sizes can actually scroll through the entire side bar which wouldn't be possible if the side bar stayed in its place while the rest of page was scrollable. Besides, it's cleaner to have a short bar than a large one with all sorts of nonsense links just to have the sidebar filled. - 87.211.75.45 (talk) 19:15, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

By the way... you can say "heck"... it's not one of the seven words. JBarta (talk) 01:58, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Editing a page but not showing it

I want to work on a page but not publish it right away, how do I save the changed without going live? It seems my only two options are preview and save.

JJ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.53.183.73 (talk) 19:33, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

You can copy the whole text of that page to your talk page and edit/save/work on it there without anyone's interference. –Capricorn42 (talk) 19:40, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Note though that this will still be publicly viewable, it just won't be formally part of the encyclopedia. Algebraist 20:14, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Another thing to keep in mind, if you wish to edit an existing article, other editors may be making changes to the article proper while you are editing a copy of it on your userpage. If you then take your version and paste it in to the article, you may wipe out all the recent changes made to the article by other users. JBarta (talk) 20:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

A user talk page isn't the best place to put it - that's where discussions and warnings are meant to go. Better to put it on the user page, or a subpage thereof. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 22:27, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Right - but it has to be a subpage of the User talk: page because last I checked, IPs can't create a userpage or its subpage. –Capricorn42 (talk) 22:35, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

peculiar character

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 03:08, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi. How do I create a "D" with a line through it? The line crosses the vertical of the "D" but does not extend to the curve on the right hand side. I think it's Hungarian (the name is "Dokovic"). Best, Robinh (talk) 21:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Have you looked through the characters listed underneath the edit window? Below the place where you enter your edit summary, there should be a dropdown box. By default, it's set to "Insert", but there are other options. Is the Dokovic listed there? TN‑X-Man 21:11, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Also see D with stroke. TN‑X-Man 21:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi TnXman. Never noticed that! (I searched WP:markup with no luck). Yup, it's there (as are the other weird symbols in this chap's name). Watch Hadamard matrix over the next few hours! Best wishes, Robinh (talk) 21:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Engineering Economics

I am currently enrolled for my first semester in a community college in Florida. I am wondering what are the required courses and G.P.A. if I wanted to tranfer as a junior to M.I.T. for my bachelors in engineering economics?

Thank You, Carrie Small <e-mail redacted>—Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.139.222.5 (talk) 22:07, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but it isn't Wikipedia's responsibility to list that sort of information. Try a Google search. Xenon54 22:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Your best bet may be to contact your school's registrar. Registrars are usually helpful and can probably point you in the right direction. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 22:42, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Etiquette for article talk pages.

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 03:48, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

at this page, I read "Editing another editor's signed talk page comments is generally frowned upon, even if the edit merely corrects spelling or grammar." to mean that article talk pages should not have sections and comments removed. I ask because I noticed that entire section(s) were removed from an article's talk page with the edit note "THIS IS NOT A FORUM". While I do plead guilty to being new, the discussion revolved around what should and should not be included in an article. Is it really appropriate to delete other editor's comments from the "talk" page of an article. Thank You. Ched (talk) 22:33, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Which page are you talking about? Xenon54 22:57, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

As a general rule, yes it is acceptable to entirely remove inappropriate talk page content. It is editing a comment while leaving it in place that is frowned upon, since this gives the impression that the user said something that they in fact did not. There's more information at Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#Editing comments. Algebraist 23:01, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

You and the removing editor apparently viewed the comments differently. We cannot evaluate the situation without knowing the page. Comments by others should generally not be altered but it's sometimes appropriate to remove them. Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#How to use article talk pages says "Irrelevant discussions are subject to removal". WP:NOTFORUM says "talk pages exist for the purpose of discussing how to improve articles; they are not mere general discussion pages about the subject of the article". PrimeHunter (talk) 23:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Finally found the page, Talk:MS Antivirus. It seems the only section that was removed was a section titled "FYI" that detailed the ways that the malware (that is the subject of the article) spreads - a perfect example of what "to" remove from talkpages. Xenon54 (talk) 23:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. The edit summary actually said "Removing FYI section - THIS IS NOT A WP:FORUM" with a wikilink to precisely the section WP:NOTFORUM I quoted above. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The problem with leaving forum-type stuff is that it attracts replies and can turn into a slugfest. I've seen replies to discussions that started three years previous. Also a good reason to archive talk pages. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 23:33, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok .. Thank you for the input. I didn't want to mention the article because I didn't want to bring attention to any other editor without first talking to them. Since it appears that it was appropriate to remove the sections, I sure don't want to make a point of anything. That's why I wanted to read and ask before I said anything. I appreciate your input, there's a lot to learn here. I thought the text was on topic for the article, and just wanted some clarification on the matter. I wasn't trying to make anyone chase after anything, I just wanted to understand procedure. Thank you all for your input. Ched (talk) 02:14, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Trying to upload a team logo

Resolved

 – TN‑X-Man 14:16, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello. I have been working on the wikipage for the Tennessee Valley Tigers. Specifically, I would like for the logo to appear in the table to the right hand side of the page, similar to how the logo appears in the table being used for the Clarksville Fox. I saw a question earlier where my account has to be confirmed before I can upload photos. Is this what is causing the problem for me with the logo? I admit to being a Wikipedia newbie and not sure what I should do to get the logo loaded. Thanks, Carson Wakefield —Preceding unsigned comment added by CrmsnTydGrl (talk • contribs) 22:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

You need autoconfirmed status to upload images, and you need two more edits to be autoconfirmed. Then head over to WP:Upload and follow the instructions. Algebraist 22:43, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your help!

CrmsnTydGrl (talk) 13:52, 14 January 2009 (UTC)CrmsnTydGrl

Changing article titles?

I'd like to make some changes to the wikipedia entry titled "St. Mark's Poetry Project." The primary change that I'd like to make is to the title itself which I can't figure out how to alter. The name of the organization this article is describing is "The Poetry Project" not "St. Mark's Poetry Project." The organization is housed in St. Mark's Church in New York City which, I guess, is the source of the confusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PoProj (talk • contribs) 23:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

To change the title of an article, you have to move it by clicking on the appropriate tab up the top. However, you will only be able to move articles once your account is autoconfirmed - which currently happens when it is 4 days old and has made 10 edits. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 23:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Note Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Avoid the definite article ("the") and the indefinite article ("a"/"an") at the beginning of the page name. The Poetry Project website writes "the Poetry Project" and not "The Poetry Project" with capital 'T' in running text, so "Poetry Project" seems a better title. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Changing image licenses

I uploaded some photographs taken by a friend, but didn't credit him for them. How do I change the licenses? Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 23:46, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Go to the image page and click the edit tab. There are lots of sourcing and licensing templates, so if you need more information you'll have to tell us which images are involved and what new licenses you want. Algebraist 23:53, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

They're File:Mick nolan.jpg, File:0493 shellhq 18may.jpg, File:8806 greens2s 21nov06web.jpg, and File:Davidnorris.jpg. Can you tell me where I can find the other templates? Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 09:21, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

The first file in your list seems to have been uploaded by someone else. Might you have intended instead one of these? File:Garda victim.jpg, File:3527 greensdail31jan06web.jpg, File:Michaeldhiggins.jpg, File:Martinferris.jpg, or File:Joehiggins.jpg. The other three files in your list (and all the files in my list) have been uploaded to Commons; so you would have to modify them there. To do so click on the links in “The description on its description page there is shown below” on the Wikipedia description pages. If you need more information you'll have to tell us what new license(s) you want. —teb728 t c 23:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)