Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 November 6

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November 6

Table help

How can I make the letters D and I and S and I to have equal spacing in between each other, half way down the next box.--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 02:25, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

P	Name	Portrait	Birth	Marriages	Death
I	Magnus I Olafsson Magnus the Good 1035–1047		c. 1024 Illegitimate son of Olaf II and Alfhild	Never married	25 October 1047 Zealand
D
S	Magnus VII Eriksson August 1319– 15 August 1343 (deposed)		c. 1316 Norway or Stockholm only son of Eric, Duke of Södermanland and Ingeborg of Norway	Blanche of Namur 5 November 1335 Bohus Castle two sons	1 December 1374 Lyngholmen aged 58
S	Haakon VI Magnusson 1343–1380		15 August 1340 Sweden second son of Magnus IV and Blanche of Namur	Margaret of Denmark 9 April 1363 Church of Our Lady one son	11 September 1380 Akershus Castle aged 40
I

I've done it, by replacing "I" etc. by a no-break space, a linebreak, "I", a linebreak, and a no-break space. This is a bit of a bodge – maybe someone knows a more proper way. Maproom (talk) 11:18, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

P	Name	Portrait	Birth	Marriages	Death
I	Magnus I Olafsson Magnus the Good 1035–1047		c. 1024 Illegitimate son of Olaf II and Alfhild	Never married	25 October 1047 Zealand
D
S	Magnus VII Eriksson August 1319– 15 August 1343 (deposed)		c. 1316 Norway or Stockholm only son of Eric, Duke of Södermanland and Ingeborg of Norway	Blanche of Namur 5 November 1335 Bohus Castle two sons	1 December 1374 Lyngholmen aged 58
S	Haakon VI Magnusson 1343–1380		15 August 1340 Sweden second son of Magnus IV and Blanche of Namur	Margaret of Denmark 9 April 1363 Church of Our Lady one son	11 September 1380 Akershus Castle aged 40
I

Where Were You on the Night Batman Was Killed? > Batman: Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?

there is a link as titled above on this page ----> Batman: Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? & nothing for it to go to..... why?

Here is a possible source of information! http://www.comics.org/story/name/Where%20Were%20You%20On%20The%20Night%20Batman%20Was%20Killed%3F/sort/alpha/ StefanBren (talk) 03:48, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The link works fine for me. What error are you seeing? RudolfRed (talk) 03:14, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

--Having just signed up i now have a different page (one that says Creating Where Were You on the Night Batman Was Killed?) before it was telling me Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for Where Were You on the Night Batman Was Killed? in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings. So my query is such, why is it linked up with nowhere to go? Is it simply waiting for someone to create the article is that why it's linked? StefanBren (talk) 03:48, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that's what a red link means. If someone does write an article on "Where Were You...?", this link is ready to find it. While it's red, maybe someone able to write that other article will see the red link and be nudged to do so. It's a reminder that Wikipedia will never be complete! —Tamfang (talk) 05:23, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

A red link means that an article hasn't been written about that topic. When someone isn't signed in, they can't create an article. So the page that they see is just a search page. When someone is signed in, they can create the article and are given the option to do so. See more at WP:REDLINK. Dismas|^(talk) 05:34, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Nineteenth-century end-times cult

I'm looking for a book I saw once about a man who led a missions movement overseas in the latter half of the nineteenth century because he believed he was helping to usher in the second coming of Christ in his generation. A lot of people on his team ended up dying and he was brought back to America to be tried for manslaughter. Does anyone know the name of this book, or the man about whom it was written?

Thanks bunches : ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.87.167.235 (talk) 06:03, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

You'll have better luck asking at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities. —Tamfang (talk) 06:52, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The man was probably Frank Sandford. There is a bibliography at the end of the article which may be of assistance in locating the book. Hack (talk) 07:16, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

no complete content as a list

i searched for list of appellations around the world,like the list for other topics, there is no list for this topic which is hard to gather info about. so please try to handle this topic asap. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martinvml (talk • contribs) 06:35, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not sure what sort of list you are looking for. If you are looking for appellations like AOC, we do have an article titled Appellation which does lead to certain lists such as List of Appellation d'Origine Contrôlée wines which covers French wines alone. I don't think Wikipedia, as yet, has a complete list of every protected appellation for every single foodstuff in every single country in the world. I don't think there's anything wrong with eventually having that level of coverage at Wikipedia, its just that none of our volunteers (we're all volunteers, by the way) has created it yet. If you have an interest in this area, you are certainly invited to help out. We could certainly use it! --Jayron32 06:49, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

NetZealous LLC

Dear MathewVanitas, Thanks for your review of my article on my company, NetZealous LLC. Honestly, I didn't quite understand the reason for which it was selected for speedy deletion. I request you to please let me know what is Line 23 that is mentioned in your comment. Is it the 23rd line of my contribution that needs to be edited? If yes, I would be very grateful if you let me know what is wrong with my references. If you feel that my company's url, NetZealous.com has to be deleted, I will do it. If that is the only part that is to be changed, I will do so immediately. Looking forward to another quick response! Regards, Ravindra G. Rao — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ravimanz (talk • contribs) 07:25, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Are you asking about your draft article at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/NetZealous LLC? It was not deleted, but it was declined in its present form because "This submission's references do not adequately evidence the subject's notability—see the guidelines on the notability of organizations and companies and the golden rule." See those links for what we are looking for. You ask what is wrong with your references: a major part of what is wrong with the draft is that there are no references at all. —teb728 t c 07:35, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

As well as the references problem, it is basically an advertisement masquerading as an article.--ukexpat (talk) 13:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Definitive fact, referenced fact, referenced opinion

I would really love some help with an issue that has infected two separate talk pages (Talk:Ubuntu (operating system) and Talk:Adware).

In my mind, there are three types of statements we make on Wikipedia.

1) Definitive facts, which are true by definition, internally self-consistent with the uncontroversial WP definition of that term. Example: "A is the first letter and vowel in the ISO basic Latin alphabet", in A (letter). No reference is required for these.

2) Referenced facts - facts which are not ipso facto true, so a reference is required. Example: "The earliest certain ancestor of "A" is aleph (also called 'aleph), the first letter of the Phoenician alphabet", in A (letter).

3) Referenced opinion - subjective facts which are open to debate. Example "Time has stated that the issue of bodily privacy is "the core" of the abortion debate," in Abortion debate.

Many articles combine all three. Generally most articles open with statements of class 1, elaborate with a mix of class 1 and 2, and then offer a few notable statements of class 3.

Innocently, I made an edit to Ubuntu (operating system), describing it as adware, since it fit what I thought was the uncontroversial definition of the term. Numerous editors took me to task over this - it seems that the word "adware" has pejorative connotations, so the term is only appropriate to be used in a class 3 statement. Fine, I conceded that, but was then forced to link to the generic advertising entry which gave readers no specific information on the rendition of advertising in software user interfaces, its history, reception, etc. That to me is a failing of the encyclopedia. So how to fix it? I proposed renaming adware to a neutral term, and limiting the use of the "adware" term to a section of that article that makes clear the contentious nature of the term. But that was roundly rejected.

Leaving it lie for a while, now someone is modifying adware to eliminate all reference to anything negative, yet still using the word adware. I suggested this was not consistent with the consensus criticism I received at the Ubuntu entry, and now I am copping resistance to that, too!

I'm honestly ready to throw my hands up and give up on trying to create a self-consistent, neutral, verifiable encyclopedia. I must be missing something. The issue now spans two entries and in any case no-one on those pages seems interested in constructive discussion. It's all just "no no no".

We need something better than having a) nothing more specific to definitively link to in sense 1 other than the generic advertising, and b) an entry (adware) which purports to be a neutral and definitive term yet will be trashed by editors any time it is linked to in sense 1, and so will only ever really be able to be used in sense 3.

I've heard enough of people telling me what we can't do. I've tried to craft solutions but all I get back from 50 different angles is "no no no". I am not trying to push a particular point of view other than that the encyclopedia should be as comprehensive, specific and useful as possible. All of my suggestions have been rejected but no-one has put up a decent alternative. Will someone just tell me what to do, so we can go ahead and get on with the job of creating a decent encyclopedia? --Russell E (talk) 08:44, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Help adding Geo-coords for Butts Bridge in List of bridges on the National Register of Historic Places in Connecticut

Hi all,
Bing Maps says "41.651199 -71.970901". How to add that to the list (and the article) is proving well beyond my abilities.
Help!-- Shirt "not good with numbers" 58 (talk) 09:51, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

How about {{coord|41.651199|-71.970901|type:landmark}}? That gives 41.651199°N 71.970901°W / 41.651199; -71.970901. See {{coord}} for more options. —teb728 t c 11:24, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)  Fixed You were on the right track. The code would be {{Coord|41.651199|N|71.970901|W|name=Butts Bridge|type:landmark}} (since you got the coordinates in decimal format, you don't need all the vertical bars (|) in between the numbers. Since the display on the list is inline, the right parameter would be display=inline (inline is default, so it does not have to manually be specified), but in the article it should be display=title. I went ahead and added it in both places for you.

Anonymouse321 (talk • contribs) 11:26, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I improved the precision to hit the bridge (you were 15m south), and changed the coordinate format at http://geographiclib.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/GeoConvert.[1] PrimeHunter (talk) 11:38, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The infobox had coords, which were set to display inline and in the title, but doubled up the title display. However, the two sets do not match. I assume someone who recently worked on this knows which one is right.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 18:47, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

 Fixed The OP gave me a coordinate and I added it, but PrimeHunter made the coordinate more precise. In Butts Bridge I added the coordinate to the top of the article manually, PrimeHunter fixed the coordinate, but Doncram added an infobox with my slightly inaccurate coordinate.

So basically, the later coordinate (PrimeHunter's) is the correct coordinate. Anonymouse321 (talk • contribs) 19:26, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Ask about semi protection

I'm one of the users in the Korean Wikipedia. In English Version, do users set semi-protection on the candidates until the election ends? In Korean Wikipedia policy, the semi-protection could not be set by the reason that the article only has expectation of damages. Is it a policy to set semi-protection on articles of candidates, which can easily harmed(?), until the election? --위키백과당! (talk) 12:12, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

It seems to me that the English Wikipedia doesn't have such a rule. WP:SEMI doesn't mention it and I am not aware of any such rule. As far as I know, EN Wikipedia only semi-protects articles which are the subject of ongoing vandalism or disruption. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 12:20, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

So, 'expected' vandalism cannot be semi-protected article? How did the Obama and Romney articles are in semi-protection? --위키백과당! (talk) 13:26, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The page protection policy specifically states that "protection should not be used as a preemptive measure against vandalism that has not yet occurred". We do not protect pages pre-emptively; however, in the case of Barack Obama and Mitt Romney, past vandalism was sufficient to warrant indefinite protection of both pages. Yunshui 雲‍水 13:41, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

 Confirmed thanks for the answers --위키백과당! (talk) 13:52, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Title formats

Hi, I'm just looking at titles and wondering what the correct formats are. On St John's Hospital we see a number of similar articles but different formats for the title where the place name is either separated by a comma as in St John's Hospital, Livingston or by braces as in St. John's Hospital (Springfield, Illinois). Is there a correct way, and if so which one is it? Thanks! Philipjohn21 (talk) 16:42, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Oddly, WP:NCDAB seems to imply that both are technically correct... as this is a hospital, and not an actual geographic location, I'd say that the (Springfield, Illinois) method is the more correct. I'm not sure, however; this may be best discussed as part of a requested move discussion for one or the other. Hersfold non-admin^(t/a/c) 18:35, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Chateau Marmont Wikipedia revisions

Hi,

I am writing with questions pertaining to Chateau Marmont's wikipedia page.

I noticed three postings for edit suggestions by wiki-editors The Banner, Comatmebro, and Mr. Ollie. All three cited the article was too promotional based and had excessive name dropping. Mr. Ollie actually did delete the material he did not see fit.

All the information provided on the Chateau Marmont's page was correctly referenced by reliable sources as advised by Wikipedia. The large list of famous guests who stayed at the hotel was not name dropping but part of the hotel's history. I have researched similar hotel pages such as The Sunset Tower and The Beverly Hills Wilshire which both do include lengthy lists of previous guests as well.

I do realize that Wikipedia is not a promotion based site and therefore understand some cleaning up some of the very descriptive adjectives and phrases.

Would there be a way to include the famous guest and their historic stories while following Wiki guidelines? Maybe adding a famous guest section toward the end that list the names of people who have stayed at the hotel.

Thank you and I look forward to your suggestions! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nsteriov86 (talk • contribs) 17:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Such information would be more appropriate for Wikimedia Travel Guide, which will be created soon. Ruslik_Zero 18:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Page Taken Down

To Whom it May Concern,

I was validating and citing information for Paul Summerville's page when his page was deleted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Summerville). There has been some attacks on the page claiming biased and non-cited text (a problem I was trying to resolve)when immediately prior to it being deleted. Could you please restore his page to the form it was at 10:30AM PST November 6, 2012. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nbaumgartner (talk • contribs) 18:54, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Since that deletion came about after a deletion discussion here, you will need to make that request through deletion review, though if you just want a copy of the page to work on in your userspace, you can also make a request to the deleting administrator. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 19:07, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Is this WP:OUTING?

IP editor 109.65.216.37 pointed out that the user Chovesh had made COI edits to the article WheelTug and included a link to the user's Linkedin profile.[2] Chovesh had posted his name in a past talk page edit years ago,[3] but never directly disclosed an affiliation with the subject. Would this count as outing? If so, should that edit be redacted? Thanks. --Drm310 (talk) 19:16, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

No - as recently demonstrated on WP:ANI, if someone reveals their true name, they can't be outed by anouther user, as that information is already kicking around. Mdann52 (talk) 19:23, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Punte Balurte vs. Mullau Viaduct

Hello!

This is message is regarding the incorrect information on the Millau Viaduct article.

It is not the tallest bridge in the world. The tallest bridge is the Puente Baluarte located un Durango, Mexico.

Please correct that information for me. Than you!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.121.253 (talk) 19:27, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source for that?--ukexpat (talk) 19:39, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The Millau Viaduct is the tallest, with the highest point of the structure being 343m above the lowest point. The Baluarte Bridge is the highest, with the road being 403m above the bottom of valley; but it is not as tall as the Millau Viaduct, as no part of it is in the valley. See List of highest bridges in the world for more details. Maproom (talk) 19:45, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The List of highest bridges in the world actually gives that honor to the Sidu River Bridge. --Onorem♠Dil 19:47, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

False Postings

If someone posts false information I know it can be removed which has been done - what recourse is there if the poster continues to repost it? Can I put a warning on the site stating that action will be taken action the poster if this continues? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GaryRichardson4110 (talk • contribs) 19:52, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The first (and best) thing you can do is talk with the user on either that user's talk page or the talk page of the article. If that is unsuccessful, you can try the WP:3rr noticeboard. If THAT is no help, there is always WP:ANI as a last resort. Livewireo (talk) 19:56, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The material in question was unsourced contentious information about a living person which was, whether true or false, properly removed under the BLP policy. I've left a warning on the talk page of the user who was posting that information. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 20:22, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

PS: If the material is reinserted, feel free to immediately remove it and report the matter to info-enwikimedia.org. Do not make any legal threats towards either that user or towards Wikipedia itself, however, as doing so will almost certainly get you immediately blocked or banned under Wikipedia's legal threats policy. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 20:28, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Problem, someone keeps changing my entry

I did an entry in subject: Prezrenje ; Its my village Somebody keeps deleting it, 2 ppl, first one had a right because i wrote about my selfe not just the village, second one had no right He said i had no refrence source, whats that soposed to mean it my village i live there i am the source So i write in references its a word spoken reference from my grandfather to me And he deleted it anyway i mean cmon Its my village i live here, my gradfater and everybody here knows the story, so its not written in a book we got 24-30 houses in our village who is gonna write about us I just ask you can i protect the page or something couse some ppl have too much time on their hands, if he wants his day in court with his refrenc folder i wouldnt be surprised, couse this cantb be his job couse his doing it badly Say to him go to work, work for your country not hores inosent ppl with this bull***

I promis you story about my village is trou, and why would i wont to write a lie, its nothing special, its just something about my village i want to share with other.. is that so wrong?? If he wants a referenc go and find it you tell him (he has allot of time), inocent until proven quilty

Thank you for your time, pardon for any typos

Regards, Mitja — Preceding unsigned comment added by MitjaBene (talk • contribs) 20:00, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but "spoken word" is not a reliable source for Wikipedia purposes. You will need to find a reliable source that supports your edit.--ukexpat (talk) 20:05, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

As the expat said: we only allow articles with verifiable sources, which means reliable, published sources with a neutral point of view. Your personal recollections, verbal accounts and the like do not meet our minimum standards. Look at articles like Maple Works, Wisconsin or Deanburg, Tennessee to see what we need. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:08, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Suggest article

I've been trying to suggest an article about layers mash/pellets (chicken food), but can't work out how to do it or find a suitable category. Please help.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.13.199.23 (talk • contribs)

You may make such suggestions at articles for creation. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 20:31, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Chicken feed currently redirects to Bird food, which is a brief article that has only one short paragraph about chicken feed. Roger (talk) 21:13, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

As someone who both edits Wikipedia and has chickens, I don't see why we need a separate article for chicken feed. Dismas|^(talk) 00:39, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

As someone who grew up on a chicken farm, sort of, I'm stunned that we don't have an article on chicken feed. I would have expected a dab, with one link to the colloquialism and another to a proper article.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 18:41, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I've created an article at Poultry feed. We must not be chickenist here. Ducks are poultry too, and it is crucial that we do not forget the ducks. It's currently a stub, but I'm planning on expanding it for DYK.--xanchester (t) 21:46, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Need to redirect to disambiguation page

Hello, I recently created a disambiguation page for Renaissance Party here: Renaissance Party (disambiguation)

However, when the term "Renaissance Party" is searched on Wikipedia it redirects instead to this page: Renaissance Party

When the term is searched for, there should be a redirect to the disambiguation page instead. Thank you,David O. Johnson (talk) 20:50, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Unless a friendly administrator sees this and makes the appropriate move, you will have to request it as a technical move at WP:Requested moves.--ukexpat (talk) 21:06, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

• Another thing that you could do is add a Hatnote, that links to the disambiguation page, to the "Renaissance Party" page. LittleBen (talk) 06:00, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Specifically, you would use {{Redirect|Renaissance Party}}, which yields:

"Renaissance Party" redirects here. For other uses, see Renaissance Party (disambiguation).

Does that help? - Purplewowies (talk) 06:13, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

It looks like someone has already done exactly that. Thank you for your help. David O. Johnson (talk) 07:09, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Maybe the Redirect hatnote only appears when you search for "Renaissance Party" and land on the page, whereas the About hatnote that I linked to is always displayed.   LittleBen (talk) 07:23, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

There is clearly no primary topic here so I have edited the redirect at Renaissance Party to point to Renaissance Party (disambiguation), rather than to Ennahda Movement.--ukexpat (talk) 14:13, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

And I changed the hatnote at Ennahda Movement.--ukexpat (talk) 15:07, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:Navboxes using background colours

Does anyone know the purpose of this Category:Navboxes using background colours? Is there some rule against using background colors and if so, is there some expectation to remove the BG color from all these navboxes (over 41,000 at the time of writing this note? Thanks Illia Connell (talk) 22:38, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

withdraw question Illia Connell (talk) 02:52, 7 November 2012 (UTC)