Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2019 December 20

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December 20

A recalcitrant book title

I am trying to cite a book. On the title page, the title is given as "In the beginning was the apeiron". I assume that I should capitalize "beginning" and "was", even though they're not capitalized on the title page. Right? Now, how about apeiron? The word is italicized on the title page because it is a transliteration of a non-English word, the ancient Greek term ἄπειρον. If I use {{cite book}}, the title will automatically be italicized; do I somehow preserve the author's typographical distinction between apeiron and the rest of the title? Further, should apeiron be capitalized? Should I use the {{lang}} template for a foreign word, even though it is transliterated? If so, what is the language code for ancient Greek? Peter Brown (talk) 00:38, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Peter M. Brown: We won't have guidance for such a special case, so you will need to use your own editorial judgement. I personally favor "In the beginning was the apeiron",(i.e., only the leading cap) as this is what other places on the web seem to use, and leave out any funny language templates. -Arch dude (talk) 00:55, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Peter M. Brown: If you are unhappy with that, remember that the {{cite book}} template, like all other templates, are merely conveniences for the editor and you do not have to use them. You can construct a ref without a template that displays exactly what you want it to display. -Arch dude (talk) 00:58, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

I think that 'was' is one of those words that is lowercase in title case and apeiron would be capitalized. In {{cite book}}:

{{cite book |title=In the Beginning was the ''Apeiron'' |first=Adam |last=Drozdek |publisher=Steiner |date= 2008 |isbn=978-3515092586}}

Drozdek, Adam (2008). In the Beginning was the Apeiron. Steiner. ISBN 978-3515092586.

Do not use {{lang}} in cs1|2 template parameters because use of that template will contaminate the metadata produced by the citation template.

{{lang|el-Latn|apeiron}} → apeiron

—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:01, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Arch dude; Worldcat.org uses lower-case for the title. Schazjmd (talk) 01:05, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Go with the title page of the book. Worldcat is, like Wikipedia, crowd-sourced and full of errors. DuncanHill (talk) 11:56, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: Per MOS:CT, "was" and other forms of "to be" should be capitalised like other verbs. Hence It Is the Law, He Was a Friend of Mine, etc. Obviously that doesn't apply if the whole title is in sentence case though. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 12:32, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Stop nagging me for donations after I have already donated.

I donated. Way more than $2. Set a f'n cookie and stop bothering me if you want any further donations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.79.115 (talk) 01:37, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Since you are just an IP address, Wikipedia has no way to identify that it was you who donated (and in fact it doesn't keep a list of editors who have donated), but if you WP:Create an account, then you can switch off the requests. Dbfirs 02:23, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Help with footnotes

Hello! There is a problem I've been encountering for a while and would like to know how to fix it. When I use Footnotes on an article and then add a template which contains other footnotes, all notes stack at the {{notelist}} linked to the template instead of the one made for the article.

For example, at the 2019–20 Al Ahly SC season article, all footnotes in the article are stacked at the CAF Champions League group stage section where a template is using a {{notelist}} for its notes; while the notes section can be found empty with errors. Is there any solution to fix this error except for changing the notes format from </efn> to group=note?

Thanks in advance! Ben5218 (talk) 08:57, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

The article pulls in the table from the template {{2019–20 CAF Champions League group tables}}. The template generates the tables using the {{#invoke:Sports table|function}} module. That module automatically adds the Notes section if there are notes in the table. So what's happening is that the notes section is being inserted to catch the notes in the table, but is also catching notes from earlier in the article. Hope that explains it. - X201 (talk) 10:07, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@X201: Hello, and thanks for the reply. Apparently I didn't clarify what do I mean exactly. I understand what causes the problem, but I was wondering if there is a way to avoid it and prevent it from occurring. Ben5218 (talk) 12:21, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Ben5218: One possibility is to change all the {{efn}}'s in the article to {{efn-ua}}, and the {{notelist}} to {{notelist-ua}}. This will keep them separate from those in the table. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:06, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks guys, both you. I was wondering if it's possible to keep it in that format and prevent the notes from being inserted into the notelist generated by the template, but apparently it's not possible. So, thanks again! Ben5218 (talk) 15:27, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Translation

Hello,

I'd like to translate the biography of a person that I represent into English and Turkish, from German. How can I do that?

Best regards, Burak — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mburakerol (talk • contribs) 13:46, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Mburakero1 See Wikipedia:Translation. Since you say you represent the person, see also WP:COI and WP:PAID. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:52, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Mburakerol: Please be aware that the separate Wikipedias are different projects with possibly different rules. This means that we do not speak for the Turkish Wikipedia. It also means that the existence of the German Wikipedia article as no bearing on whether or not we would accept the article here, and in particular the subject must be notable by our definition. See WP:N. We need references to what we define as "reliable sources" (WP:RS). Note that we do not require that those sources be in English, so that may simplify your task. However, it will be harder for our reviewers to assess notability if your sources are not in English, and this might delay a review by our already-overworked volunteers. -Arch dude (talk) 21:15, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Why bulleted?

In Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos article there are bullets (•) present in the infobox. These bullets are of no use, space consuming and against Wikipedia's rule. Can anyone remove those bullets? Both Wikipedia pages are protected so I can't do this. Thanks. (223.230.173.137 (talk) 16:38, 20 December 2019 (UTC))

Could you point us to which rule they are against? They are put there using {{hlist}}, a template which is used on 130,000 pages, often in infoboxes and navboxes. I'm not sure why there would be such a widely used template for something that is "against Wikipedia's rule". ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:48, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@ONUnicorn: This has been brought here as a result of a discussion at Talk:Shamsheer Vayalil#Needs review where it has been disputed that the infobox at the Shamsheer article should contain bullet points; I think, in relation to educational facilities. Editors have said to the OP (our regular Shamsheer edit requester) that the points are not required and they have then gone out of their way to find articles with the bullets and now are trying a different tack. Eagleash (talk) 17:02, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Eagleash: Are those bullets in Jeff and Bill articles necessary? Are those bullets not wasting spaces? I think it's not about bullets but only matter of discrimination with us and Indian articles.Many things has been removed by you all from Shamsheer Vayalil's article without any reason or say on sake of fake wikipedia's rule which is not applicable to all articles.I think wikipedia should make a different help desk to post betterment queries related to Indian articles. Feeling really disappointed 😔😔. Thanks. (223.230.173.137 (talk) 03:48, 21 December 2019 (UTC))

Using those little "interpuncts" is a pretty standard practice. Not sure how they waste space? Its not like we have to make articles as small or efficient as possible. The one or two extra bytes of data they add is inconsequential compared to the enormous size of Wikipedia. I get the feeling that this is not about the interpuncts however. You seem to have a much deeper concern/resentment about this article. Folks editing the article seem to be trying to improve it. What about their edits are you unhappy about? Why have you been unable to resolve this on the talk page? Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 06:36, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

S. I. Hiyakawa

please create a page/information about the late Mr. S.I. Hiyakawa, a former U.S. Senator from California (circa 1960’s/70’s), former President of San Francisco State College (circa 1960’s), and contributor to studies in General Semantics……… — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrgexcellency (talk • contribs) 17:16, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Mrgexcellency: You can post your request at WP:RA, or you can do it yourself by following the guidelines at WP:YFA and using the wizard there to create a draft for review. RudolfRed (talk) 19:31, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Mrgexcellency: Did you mean S. I. Hayakawa? -Arch dude (talk) 21:05, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Using Maps from Commons in a Novel?

I've been working on a historical novel for just about forever. I'm finally getting to the point where I'm close to sending it to a publisher or maybe just publishing myself. It's a novel about WWII in the Pacific and the USNs role in some specific battles. I really need a couple maps so readers appreciate the basics of which forces were coming from what direction. I've found a couple of maps in the commons that look pretty good. My question is, if I use those does that mean that the whole novel then has to be freely available? Or would that be fair use since I wouldn't be charging (making a huge leap of faith and assuming I'm able to get anyone to pay to read it) for the maps but the text, but I'm afraid that may still not be within the boundaries of open source use. Is that correct? If I can't use maps from the commons does anyone know of sites where there would be simple maps for major WWII naval battles in the pacific that are in the public domain and that I could use? They don't have to be flashy with lots of colors, those old time maps that look as if they were drawn by hand and are in just black and white would fit right in with the theme of the book (it's fiction but I'm trying to be as historically accurate as possible). Thanks for any feedback, if there is another forum where I should ask this question, please let me know that as well, wasn't sure, this doesn't seem to really fit the Tea House or the Help Desk so I thought I would try here. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 21:57, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@MadScientistX11: You can use the material, you just need to provide attribution for the source. If you click on the description of the file at Commons, it will show what the license is and you can see what the attribution requirement is. RudolfRed (talk) 22:03, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

(ec):See WP:REUSE and c:Reusing content outside Wikimedia Meters (talk) 22:06, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Meters:Thanks so much! That was exactly what I needed to know. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 19:47, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Carol lake

How do I create a reference regarding this author winning the Guardian newspaper fiction prize in 1989 in an article about her? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.108.34.52 (talk) 22:24, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

First, find a reliable source (WP:RS). This should be fairly easy in this case. Then, go read Help:Referencing for beginners for how to format your reference. then, edit the article using your newfound knowledge. If you are timid, just slap your reference into the article's talk page and ask another editor to format it or come back here, but there is no harm (and much good) in trying to do it yourself, because if you mess it up you (or someone) can undo it and try again. And thanks! -Arch dude (talk) 23:39, 20 December 2019 (UTC)