Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2019 November 28

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November 28

Info incorrect

Season 6 episode 16 winner last name is Caston not Cass — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrcaston (talk • contribs) 04:06, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Also asked at the Teahouse, regarding the TV show Forged In Fire. RudolfRed (talk) 04:38, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

About wikitext

Note: Situation involves wikitext and complex-ish template creation.

I'm trying to make a template that does something similar to this statement: If 1 exists, text is 'had'. If 1 does not exist, text is 'have'. I know it might involve something with the {{#if:}} function, but I haven't got it able to work yet — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dibbydib (talk • contribs) 06:08, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

@Dibbydib: by "1 exists", do you mean an article with a certain pagename? Help:Conditional expressions describes {{#ifexists:}} that does that. DMacks (talk) 06:33, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

​ Sure. I'll see how that works. Thanks! dibbydib ^💬/_✏ 07:45, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Update: Still not working. This is the piece of code {{#ifexists:{{{1}}}|This user has|I have}} if that helps ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ dibbydib ^💬/_✏ 07:48, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Well it all depends what {{{1}}} is...that's just a variable-name for some string that the caller of your template passes along. I see #ifexist itself functionally working on lots of {{Sockpuppeteer}} invocations. Could you tell us your actual conceptual use-case, and an actual page and template you are using to test it? DMacks (talk) 09:42, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

@Dibbydib: By answering "Sure" you apparently confirmed that you want to test whether a certain pagename exists. {{#ifexists:}} does that as DMacks said. But looking at [1] it appears you actually want to test whether a parameter is defined and non-empty in the template call. Use this for that: {{#if:{{{1|}}}|This user has|I have}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:56, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter: Thanks, this worked out great :D dibbydib ^💬/_✏ 07:26, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Notable alumni of schools

Does Wikipedia have a policy about who does / does not get listed as "notable" alumni of schools? For specifics, see Xaverian High School. I listed Robert Eric Wone in the list of notable alumni. Another editor said that he is not notable because the link (Murder of Robert Eric Wone) is a piped link about his death / murder, and not about him per se. I think that's a distinction without a difference, for these purposes. It's akin to saying that Kitty Genovese is not a notable "name" (i.e., that she is not a "famous person") ... because the article is called "Murder of Kitty Genovese" ... and is about her murder, not about her per se. If someone is the victim of a notable murder, then they are also "notable" ... at least "notable" enough to be listed as school alumni. Any input? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:59, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

WP:ALUMNI states: "When alumni have their own articles in mainspace, it is not necessary for their notability to be referenced." This indicates that a person can still be "notable enough" to be included in an alumni list, while not necessarily having "his own article" in mainspace. For example ... Kitty Genovese. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 07:18, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

You are not making a claim that the person is notable. You are simply attempting to link him because he was the victim of a notable crime, which you wrote an article about. See WP:ALUMNI, part of WP:WPSCHOOLS/AG.. "Alumni to be included should meet Wikipedia notability criteria". Simply being involved in a notable incident does not necessarily make the person notable. Notability is not inherited. Meters (talk) 07:10, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Neither Robert Eric Wone (a young lawyer) nor Kitty Genovese (a young bartender) are notable. They were ordinary, utterly non-notable young adults. Being a victim of a notable murder does not make a person notable. It is the crime that is notable. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:26, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

I am not making the claim that they are "notable" to have their own article. I am making the claim that they are "notable" to be listed as alumni. There's a difference in the two. They are not "one and the same". Why does the WP:ALUMNI states: "When alumni have their own articles in mainspace ... ? This implies that some other alternative method occurs, when alumni do not have their own articles in mainspace. In other words, one does not necessarily need an article in mainspace to be considered a "notable alumni". Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 07:28, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

And, in fact, Kitty Genovese is listed in the "notable graduates" section of the article Prospect Heights High School. She has been listed since 2013. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 07:36, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Please don't insert responses out of order. Your quote for WP:ALUMNI does not that mean what you say it does. It simply means that if there is a wikipedia article about s:omeone, then we do not need to add references to the school alumni list to prove the person's notability. Only under rare circumstances will an alumnus be accepted without an article If the sources clearly show that the person is notable enough to qualify for an article if one were written then we accept the person as notable without an article. Generally this means that the person must be shown to qualify as a presumed notable person (certain sports professionals, very senior military personnel;l, etc). And yes, they do need to be notable enough for an article to be included on an alumni list.

Whether Kitty Genovese should be listed is a different question, but I will say that that there is a very large difference in recognition between her and your addition. Meters (talk) 07:39, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Whether Kitty Genovese should be listed is the exact same question. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 07:43, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Notable for an article and notable for an alumni list are functionally equivalent. Of course, a red link on an alumni list is perhaps appropriate, if it is cited to multiple reliable sources that devote significant coverage to the person and mention their attendance at that school. Those would be the building blocks for an acceptable biography of that person. As for Genovese on that list, I would not object if an editor removed her name. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:45, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Both of you are contradicting yourselves within your own replies. I'd like others to weigh in. Thanks for your input. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 07:47, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

WP:ALUMNI is an essay, no more, trying to guide us into being helpful to our readers. For people remembering that someone at who had been to Xaverian was murdered but not remembering their name, a link would be useful to let them know we have an article about the murder. However, for other people reading about the school generally it is probably distracting clutter. In this case? My own view is it depends on how closely the school and murder are associated. Not too closely so far as I can see. But the strictures of WP:ALUMNI are largely irrelevant here and essays should not be scrutinised word by word to seek some absolute law. Thincat (talk) 08:28, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

I agreee this link would be distracting clutter. The person is not notable and there is no other close relationship between the school and the murder. MB 19:04, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I really wanted clarification on the policy, in general. And not to get distracted with this particular example. So, I will post the question again, in some altered form. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:32, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Unable to log in

Hi, I'm trying to log in and I keep getting an error message of There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Please resubmit the form. You may receive this message if you are blocking cookies. How do I get rid of this error? I can log in using a private browser. I'm on Brave Version 1.0.1 Chromium: 78.0.3904.108. Anarchyte (talk | work) 09:35, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Still not sure how to resolve it properly, but I just imported my settings from a different browser into this browser to log in. Anarchyte (talk | work) 11:38, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Did you try lowering your shields for Wikipedia? – Teratix ₵ 01:36, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes. Anarchyte (talk | work) 02:45, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Edits to City Lit page

Hello, I've been having some difficulty in adding info to the City Lit website which has resulted in our account being blocked. I had used 'City Lit' in the user name to be transparent about who was making changes, but I now understand the point about edits not being attributable to institutions so will not do that again.

In the comments regarding all the changes being deleted it mentioned that information about Fellows is 'promotional'. Other academic institutions listed on Wiki have sections about fellows/alumni/notable attendees so I'm unsure as to why the addition to City Lit is seen as promotional when it's not for other educational establishments?

thanks for your help — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.185.195.49 (talk) 09:38, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

@31.185.195.49: Courtesy link City Literary Institute. User:City Lit was blocked because Wikipedia username policy does not allow user account names which represent an organization rather than an individual. As explained on User talk:City Lit, you should read the Wikipedia conflict of interest guideline and avoid promotional editing. Additionally, if your contributions to Wikipedia form all or part of work for which you are, or expect to be, paid, you must disclose who is paying you to edit.

The guidance on paid editing recommends that paid editors should propose changes on talk pages by using the {{request edit}} template rather than editing the article directly. The edit summary when User:Fences and windows reverted the edits was "Revert before COI edits, some copyvio" so the issue was that the edits had not followed the conflict of interest guideline and appeared to include some copyrighted material, probably from the City Lit website.

I hope this explains why the edits were reverted, if you have more questions you are welcome to ask them here. TSventon (talk) 11:50, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

@31.185.195.49: The concerns were explained at Talk:City Literary Institute, but I will expand here. I appreciate your wish to improve the article and I'm sorry you've not had an easier introduction to Wikipedia, but:

This isn't the first account to make such edits on behalf of City Lit, I blocked and reverted another in June.

You don't need to give your real name, but you can't have a username like "City Lit" that implies you're editing as an organisation. I think you're now User:Buggiba.

If you're editing on behalf of City Lit as part of official role in a paid job, you need to declare this when you edit, see WP:PAID.

Some of the wording was in City Lit's voice, e.g. "our students". This is a problem because the text was probably copied from somewhere (see WP:COPYVIO) and Wikipedia is meant to be written neutrally, see WP:TONE. This is an encyclopedia, not marketing copy.

The sources are mostly from City Lit. It is better to use independent, secondary sources. See WP:SPS. Fences&Windows 12:27, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Move article from Draft and Sandbox to Live

Hello,

I am new to editing in Wikipedia and might have made a mistake creating a new article. I defined it as draft: and /sandbox in my userspace: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Anchor_(cryptocurrency)/sandbox However, I now don't know how to make it a live article.

The page is about a crypto project I am fond of (but not associated with), and I wanted to test article submission with it first, before move on to contributing to blockchain and crypto topics.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lysalana (talk • contribs) 09:39, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Lysalana. I have added a header to Draft:Anchor (cryptocurrency)/sandbox which includes a "Submit for review" button". (You don't have to submit it for review: you are allowed to simply move it to mainspace; but I don't recommend this for a new editor).

Two other points: 1) You don't need to use a sandbox when it's already in Draft space: Draft:Anchor (cryptocurrency) would have been fine. It doesn't do any harm, but it may confuse people looking for it. 2) On talk and discussion pages (such as this one) please sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~) --ColinFine (talk) 12:41, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Hi, ColinFine. Thank you, and happy Thanksgiving to you too. I have submitted it for review. I tried to submit it to the Draft namespace as well (it's the button I am now offered), but the system won't let me. Probably because I am a new editor. Let me know if there is anything else I should do, and what you believe will be the waiting time to be able to move the article live to Wikipedia. Lysalana (talk) 13:29, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Hello again, Lysalana. I have moved it to Draft:Anchor (cryptocurrency) (but the move leaves the old location behind as a redirect, so you can get to it from there as well). Your submission did take effect, it's just that the scripts were confused, presumably because the location ended /sandbox: I imagine nobody ever thought of the possibility of somebody creating a sandbox in Draft space (they're normally in user space, eg User:Lysalana/sandbox). In fact, I see you did have it there, and presumably copied it. It's almost always a bad idea to copy within Wikipedia - in this case, it leaves multiple copies around. I suggest you put {{db-author}} at the top of your sandbox, and an admin will come along and delete it for you.

It would help reviewers if you would format the references, rather than just leaving them as bare URLs. I always use the {{cite web}} template for this, but there are different ways, including using the WP:ProveIt tool if you have that in your chosen skin and editor. See WP:REFB for a general guide to referencing. --ColinFine (talk) 15:12, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Draft Jeremy Kidd

Hello,

first of all a HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO YOU!!!

Second, I was wondering if my draft about Jeremy Kidd is in review right now?

I submitted it two weeks ago, but haven't heard back from Wikipedia?

I know it can take up to three months, but I don't even know if you received it for review?

Thanks and enjoy this beautiful holiday!

Gulangyu2019 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gulangyu2019 (talk • contribs) 12:05, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Gulangyu2019. If you look at the bottom of Draft:Jeremy Kidd, you will see

"Review waiting, please be patient. This may take 3 months or more, since drafts are reviewed in no specific order. There are 3,537 pending submissions waiting for review."

. --ColinFine (talk) 12:43, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Colin Fine! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gulangyu2019 (talk • contribs) 13:01, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

How to publish an article for review and live view

Hello,

Looking for some guidance on how to publish an article for review and to be viewed live once approved.

Here is the draft link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Mark_Wysocki_(futsal_%26_soccer)

Best, Mark Wysocki — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mwysocki10 (talk • contribs) 16:12, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

​I've added a button on top you can click on to submit. You may also want to read WP:AUTOBIO. – Thjarkur (talk) 16:30, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Whitemouth River Campground Ltd.

Article-like content

Whitemouth River Campground is a campground located south of [Hadashville, Manitoba|Hadashville]], Manitoba. The campground has a variety of sites including RV, tenting and cabins and is located next to the Sandilands Provincial Forest where guests will find walking trails and interpretive signage. The main road coming into the campground is paved and owner's are on-site at all times. Website is www.whitemouthrivercampground.com Located south of the Trans Canada Highway 82 km (50 miles) east of Winnipeg, Manitoba. 45 minutes east from the east Perimeter ring road or 30 minutes west of Ontario/Manitoba border. On the Trans Canada Hwy #1 at Hwy #11 junction turn South and proceed 1 mile on the paved road. Please note, there is not signage at the Hwy 1/11 intersection, but this intersection is well marked and campground signs are along the south road. The campground is situated along the banks of the Whitemouth River and offers a quite retreat or overnight stay. A concrete ramp offers easy access for canoeing, tubing and kayaking, when water levels permit. The upper campground area offers forested RV sites and a group area amongst the trees.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.211.133.133 (talk) 16:50, 28 November 2019 (UTC) 

Hello, did you have a question about how to use or edit Wikipedia? Eagleash (talk) 17:00, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Article appears different on phone from desktop

Why would an article appear different on my phone than on my desktop? I edited the article on David Reich(geneticist) and now my edit shows up on my desktop, but not my phone. Am I dreaming?Tesint (talk) 18:22, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Your edit is visible on both desktop and phone. Perhaps your phone has cached an old version? --David Biddulph (talk) 19:55, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, David. I deleted my cache and I still don't see it, but if you see it, then it must somehow be something glitchy on my phone, somehow.Tesint (talk) 20:11, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

​It's not your browser's cache, but Wikipedia's server cache. If you're logged in, the servers try to give you a fresher version, but if you're logged out the servers are fine with giving you a more aggresively cached version. You can append ?action=purge to the title to force the server to render the page again. – Thjarkur (talk) 20:42, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

"Citation needed" advice

A quick sanity check requested. A "citation needed" tag has been appended to the following statement in the article on The Darkness (band), concerning their first album Permission to Land.

"The Darkness took inspiration for some of their work from the local north Suffolk area, including "Black Shuck" which mentions the nearby village of Blythburgh.^{[citation needed]}

I have the album (with printed lyrics) in front of me, having just purchased and listened to it (hence my interest in the article). The lyrics of "Black Shuck" (a legend with which I was already familiar), include the lines ". . . A nimbus of blue light surrounds a crimson paw / As he takes another fatal swipe / At the Blytheburgh [sic] Church Door." Elsewhere in the album, the song "Stuck in a Rut" references local roads called the Barnby bends, the Acle Straights [sic] and The Golden Mile (in Great Yarmouth). Do not the contents of a written text serve as their own reference, without the need for citation to a separate source repeating them? If so, should I remove the tag? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.217.209.178 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:48, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

"Took inspiration from" is an inference by the editor, unless you can find a citation for it. Change it to "some of their work refers to", and you can then remove the tag. -Arch dude (talk) 19:58, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Anchor template

This appears to be initially going to the correct line, and then for some inexplicable reason quickly dropping a couple of lines down the page, thus hiding the respective line data. DMBanks1 (talk) 23:21, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

​Could you point to an example of what you're talking about? If you're talking about fixing incoming section links to Guilford (railway point), British Columbia, you should move the {{anchor}} from the end of the paragraph to the header (so it looks like "=={{anchor|bla bla}}BLA==") – Thjarkur (talk) 01:30, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Hutton, British Columbia includes Guilford Lumber Co. that initially hits the right Guilford place, then usually drops to 3 lines below the "anchor|CHowarth" line.DMBanks1 (talk) 01:56, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

​Hmm, this is strange. It doesn't happen on Chrome but it happens in Safari. This appears to be caused by the maps in the infobox which at first are all shown but are hidden one second after opening the article, causing the text to flow differently. I don't have any suggestions for how to fix this other than to use Chrome. – Thjarkur (talk) 17:19, 29 November 2019 (UTC)