Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2020 May 10

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May 10

Citing a site that displays content based on javascript

Recently ran into an issue trying to add a citation to an article where the site uses javascript to display the text in question. The website is the official source for the laws of the country in English, but Korea likes to roll their own solution for everything. When you load this[1] page it's just a list of results. Clicking #44 (criminal act) loads the current copy of the criminal act. There doesn't seem to be any way to load the criminal act directly. it doesn't load the text in a frame, so you can't try the "show this frame" trick to get a direct address. Any ideas?--125.129.16.99 (talk) 02:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

I have seen references that include instructions on where to click when they can't provide a direct link. For example, see the last reference in Touch Me (The Doors song). GoingBatty (talk) 03:59, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Please recall that the citation is to the law itself. Even if the law were not online at all, or even if it were available only in Korean, it would still be the actual reference being cited. The URL is a convenience to let interested readers more easily check the reference. In your case, a plain URL won't work, so you will need to use GoingBatty's approach of giving the interested reader additional directions. -Arch dude (talk) 04:39, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

In such situations, I Google pieces of the text to find an alternate source. In this case, I found:

• KLRI
• WIPO
• NLIC

The last one is on the same law.go.kr site (needs verification to ensure it's the exact revision of the law/act that you're looking for). —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 08:47, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Google was failing me a bit earlier on finding an alternate source and kept recommending that site with the javascript.--125.129.16.99 (talk) 12:37, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Pending revisions

I notice that my edits are subject to "pending revisions" review on articles configured with this feature (e.g. at 5G), whereas previously they always seemed to be automatically accepted on such articles. What changed? Alexbrn (talk) 04:40, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Copyvio? on some information I moved? Maybe verifiability problems

Is it possible there may have been a copyright violation on a page I edited recently? I didn't consider it at first; I just deleted the content from Wikipedia and moved it to WikiBooks because it wasn't encyclopedic. Now I have searched for a source and I have been unable to find one. In a few years it will be public domain if it was created in 1930, but I don't have evidence it was created in 1930. It could be completely fictional for all I know; I don't know that it's verifiable. And if it's a copyright violation, I need to go remove it from Wikibooks as well. Thank you for any advice, Ikjbagl (talk) 07:10, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

If this history was indeed "compiled by the Oklahoma History class at Woodford High School in 1930 (unpublished manuscript)", it's my understanding/misunderstanding of this that it will be copyright till 2047. OTOH, I also have no pressing reason not to think that it's just a hoax. -- Hoary (talk) 07:30, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@Hoary: Actually, now that I have examined 17 U.S.C. § 302(c), I think it will enter public domain in 2025 if it is indeed verifiable as published in 1930 (which remains to be seen). It would fall under the category of anonymous/unknown author and would therefore be eligible for either 120 years of protection from the date or 95 years of protection from the date of first publication, whichever expires sooner; here that would be the first publication because presumably it was published (in the legal sense; not in the encyclopedic sense) in 1930 when it was written. So, it seems like it may not yet be public domain, and I cannot verify it; I can't find the text from a google search. What do I do about that? Ikjbagl (talk) 07:51, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand. If we believe the description, this is an "unpublished manuscript" that was "compiled [...] in 1930"; how can you presume that it was "published [...] in 1930"? Incidentally, "unpublished" hardly seems to be a typo, as this material was added (by the long-disappeared user "Cartographer1973") with the edit summary "Added History section and included a transcript of an unpublished historical document, as well as other related information." (And copyright problems aside, I wonder why you're bothering to store this anywhere: to me, it seems a mildly interesting attempt by schoolchildren, but no more than that.) -- Hoary (talk) 09:15, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@Hoary: I'm referring to the term "published" in the legal sense (referring to dissemination of the work to other people, not "publication" in the sense of published in a reliable source). It was likely disseminated to other people in 1930 when it was completed as a school assignment. As for why I think it's worth storing, I thought it might have some useful (and possibly notable) historical information (such as early land ownership, early companies/industries in the region, post office locations, etc.). Ikjbagl (talk) 15:21, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

• If a document was created and published in 1930, or anywhere near that date, it would have required copyright renewal after 28 years, and if this was omitted, the work fell into the public domain in 1958 (for a 1930 publication). See this well-known chart. If this was UNpublished, then the 120 year rule would probably apply, or possibly the life+70 years rule. The relevant destination of "published" seems to be that a work is considered published when copies of the first authorized edition were placed on sale, sold, or publicly distributed by the proprietor of the copyright or under his authority.. Distribution to a small private group din not in 1930 constitute "publication" for copyright purposes. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 18:29, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Problem with editing infobox

I edited infobox of Austria-Hungary (re official and other spoken languages of this former state) but after I did it, infobox displayed in totaly wrong way, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria-Hungary. I dont know what can I do with it. Please help me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1028:919D:9726:340E:68F7:A986:39E0 (talk) 07:35, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

 Fixed by Sammimack.   Maproom (talk) 07:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

How to report a misleading edit.

Drakesdrs1 (talk) 08:26, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Drakesdrs1. In most cases, there is no concept of "reporting" an edit. If you think an edit is wrong, you have basically two choices: either revert it (if it's the most recent edit to an article, you can undo it easily: pick "History" on the article, and you will see an "undo" button next to that edit - make sure you give a helpful edit summary); or you can begin a discussion about it on the article's talk page, explaining why you think the edit was wrong, and trying to reach consensus. (It is a good idea to ping the editor who made the edit). Which to do is your call, depending on how sure you are, how controversial the subject matter is. If you revert an edit, the editor who made might well start a discussion anyway (they're not allowed to simply reapply it - that's called edit warring, though new editors may not be aware of this rule), so unless you think it is a really bad state to leave the article with their edit, it is often best to start the discussion yourself instead of reverting them. See BRD for how this works in genral. --ColinFine (talk) 09:02, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Linking to a category, and a more specific question

I'm not sure where to ask this question, so this seemed a good place to start. The short story is, that I was looking for a suitable link relating to the kind of aggregator services offered by Trove and other services represented in the "Aggregation-based digital libraries" ("Digital libraries that are primarily based on aggregation or harvesting of other digital libraries or repositories") category. Then I was trying to see if I could add some value to the Aggregation and Aggregator DAB pages. Not finding a suitable article relating to the type of aggregation these articles are about, I thought that adding the category to the See also lists on both of those pages might be useful to people searching for such things. I can't seem to create a link to the category - presumably for a reason - but wondering if anyone can offer any ideas on anything related to this topic... Laterthanyouthink (talk) 11:01, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Write colon in front to make a wikilink to a category: Category:Aggregation-based digital libraries. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:13, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, and the same trick lets you link to a file (example). -- Hoary (talk) 11:15, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Ah, great, thanks PrimeHunter and Hoary. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 11:26, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

question re viewing some individual data for other editors

Hi. could you please tell me how to view the individual preference for an individual editor, as to which gender pronoun (if any) that they prefer to use for themselves? I know how to select this option for myself, in the interface for "Preferences." However, I have no idea how to view this information for other editors, and actually I have no idea how other editors are able to view this information in reference to myself. Any help or information on this would be greatly appreciated. thanks!! --Sm8900 (talk) 12:23, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

I have just discovered Template:They. "This template will expand to one of "he", "she" or "they" depending on what the specified user has set in their preferences." TSventon (talk) 12:47, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups displays an icon (and many other things) when you hover over a userpage link. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:00, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Bulgaria

Is pubs and nightlife open in sunny beach Bulgaria — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.105.184 (talk) 13:09, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

This Help desk is for asking questions about Wikipedia. You might want to try reading COVID-19 pandemic in Bulgaria to find out about any stay-at-home orders. GoingBatty (talk) 14:44, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Use of Congressional Record.

1. ) Is it considered a RS for non-controversial information. (Happy 100th birthday wishes to person X by a congressman, who basically gives a short biography of the person stating that he belonged to a specific fraternity and that he was member of a specific State legislative house from date X to date Y)
2. ) Which cite template to use: cite book, cite journal, cite magazine, something else?Naraht (talk) 15:14, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Those items from the Record are notoriously unedited and should not be relied upon for any but the most superficial of items. Cite the Record as you would any other journal. --Orange Mike | Talk 00:48, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Orangemike I'm not sure that these bios quite count as "superficial", but I can respect the description. Template:Cite Journal didn't seem quite correct, but I did see cite journal used for the Republic of the Philippines to the Congressional Record. Thanx for the help!Naraht (talk) 13:39, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't mean that your articles were going to be superficial; but rather that you should not reply on stuff crammed into the CR for anything of substance, because there is nothing less subject to editorial judgement or fact-checking than whatever Congressman Bloviator of YOURSTATENAMEHERE decides to read into the Record. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:47, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Starting Fresh

Hello. For more than a decade, I have been trying to created a Wiki page but without any success!! You continue to delete my postings!! Is it possible to remove/delete ALL previous pages/postings, including your deletions, and start over by creating a new profile page? Page titles: Yahya R. Kamalipour and yrkamali — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yrkamali (talk • contribs) 15:42, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not have "profile pages". It has articles about subjects which are shown to be notable. If you want to create a profile page, I suggest you use a social media site, such as Facebook. Maproom (talk) 15:56, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@Yrkamali: Please do take the time to read some of the links (the blue-underlined words) in what's been posted (repeatedly) to your talk page at User talk:Yrkamali, including links to pages like WP:AUTO and WP:PROUD. Editors don't just arbitrarily nominate an article for deletion, and Wikipedia's well-experienced administrators do not arbitrarily delete such articles, especially when it happens repeatedly for years. Wikipedia has a well-defined purpose – it is an encyclopedia with articles that discuss what reliable sources independent of the subject have written at length about. If you (or better, if the article is about you, someone unaffiliated with and unprompted by you) write an encyclopedic article with proper citations to those reliable sources, it would not be deleted. If such sources cannot be found and verified, the article will not be allowed to remain. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 00:38, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

How to publish and sustain my Company's information on Wikipedia?

Dear Concerns,

I'm writing to you with the concern that whenever I publish my company's information on Wikipedia, it gets deleted within 24 hours. I would be grateful to you if you could tell me why it's happening? Is it due to content or something else? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 111.88.11.174 (talk) 16:07, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi. I apologize about your articles being deleted, however, Wikipedia has strict rules about what can and cannot be written about. A quick summation can be found here Help:Your_first_article#Things_to_avoid. In the short version, you cannot advertise your company and it must be notable. Galendalia _{CVU Member} \ ^{Chat Me Up} 16:18, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hello, IP user. I'm afraid that the simple answer is that you don't: that is not what Wikipedia is for. If your company meets Wikipedia's criteria for being notable (most companies in the world do not), then we could have an article about it. You are discouraged from creating that yourself, but not actually forbidden, though you will be required to disclose your status as a paid editor. But once such an article is written and accepted, it will not be your article, it will not necessarily say what you want it to say, you will not have control over its contents, and most of its contents should be based not on anything you have said or published but on what people who have no connection with your company have chosen to publish about it. Your involvement will be limited to making suggestions for changes on the article's talk page. Please use a business directory or social media to advertise your company, not Wikipedia. --ColinFine (talk) 16:20, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

blue crawfish/crayfish

You have blue crayfish and throughout the article, you say crayfish. In each of the states that you list that the blue crawfish lives, no one calls it a crayfish. That is incorrect. It has always been called crawfish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.48.104.138 (talk) 16:39, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Crayfish are commonly called crawdads where I come from, but that doesn't mean that I want to change all of Wikipedia's crayfish articles to say "crawdad" rather than "crayfish". The title and text of Blue crayfish call the critters what they are called in the reliable sources cited in the article. You might find Crayfish#Terminology interesting. Deor (talk) 16:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

You are welcome to discuss the topic on the article's talk page: Talk:Blue crayfish. Be sure to provide a reliable source as well. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 17:51, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

When you discuss it there, remember that English spelling might be called permissive. Yes, "crawfish" is a widely encountered spelling, but this isn't a compelling reason why /krɔfɪʃ/ shouldn't be written "crayfish" or why "crayfish" shouldn't be pronounced /krɔfɪʃ/. -- Hoary (talk) 22:06, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Contradiction

What is difference between Paigham TV, Labbaik TV, Haq TV, HadiTV and others Islamic TV channels, why Madani Channel article not acceptable?Obaid Raza (talk) 17:05, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

You may find it useful to read WP:Articles for deletion/Madani Channel, and the link to WP:Other stuff exists. --David Biddulph (talk) 17:20, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@Obaid Raza:, Madani Channel currently redirects to Dawat-e-Islami, which is its parent organization, because it is not independently notable. The parent article needs some work. Please feel free to edit that article to improve it, being very careful to maintain a neutral point of view (WP:NPOV) and to cite reliable sources (WP:RS). If you are associated with the subject, please follow our COI guidance (WP:COI) and make suggestions instead of directly editing the article. If during the course of your improvements, the section on the Madani Channel becomes too large, and if you have found sources that establish its separate notability, then you may propose moving that section out of the parent article and into its own article. -Arch dude (talk) 17:39, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Help:Cite errors/Cite error ref no input

I updated the Willie Wright (Musician) page to show the correct birthplace, which was previously in error. I added the web reference, but not a tag, and now can't figure out how to do that, or what it should look like. The previous reference was retrieved in 2013, the new one is current. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karmu2 (talk • contribs) 17:57, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

FYI

 – combined sections for same issue. GoingBatty (talk) 18:42, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Error message now on page I edited

I edited the Willie Wright (Musician) page to show his correct birthplace, and put a URL under references to show the source of the updated info, but now there is an error message because I did not ad a "tag" which I'm not sure how to. PLEASE ADVISE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karmu2 (talk • contribs) 18:00, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

There were two problems. Firstly you had an empty pair of ref tags (<ref></ref>) near the top of the article before the first section heading. The second problem is that you had added your additional reference at the start of the line with the References section heading, whereas it ought to have been placed immediately after the text which it supports, which is presumably the first sentence of the Background and career section. Another editor corrected the first error but also removed your added reference entirely. I have put back your added reference, but in the right place, and with further information (such as a title and access-date) in the citation. --David Biddulph (talk) 18:23, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Usage of the pronoun "it" without a particular noun it's referring to

Could anyone please tell me if it's all right to write something like "he broke his bones and never recovered from it"? The pronoun "it" refers to an injury that isn't described in noun form earlier, so I wasn't sure if "it" was acceptable in that context.--Thylacine24 (talk) 19:58, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@Thylacine24: From that context, I understood that "it" was the injury of breaking his bones. The fine folks at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors may be able to give a more nuanced answer. Of higher importance would be what the independent reliable source says about the injury. Did his bones never heal properly, or was it a psychological issue, or something else? Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 21:26, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

GoingBatty It was an example sentence that I made up, but inspired by two real examples from Wikipedia articles. Thanks for responding, though.--Thylacine24 (talk) 21:43, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Thylacine24 In your example I think that the "from it" is all right but you could (and probably should) omit it without changing the meaning. Another example could be "She taught for 10 years but never really enjoyed it". Here "it" is also fine and means teaching. TSventon (talk) 22:06, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

TSventon I'm confused – could you please tell me if I should omit "from it" or keep it (on the basis that "'it' is also fine")? Sorry not to understand you.--Thylacine24 (talk) 22:55, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Thylacine24, I find "he broke his bones and never recovered from it" completely normal English. --ColinFine (talk) 23:10, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

ColinFine Thanks, but I'm not sure if it's good, formal English for Wikipedia, though.--Thylacine24 (talk) 23:54, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Importing a Wikipedia XML dump into a MediaWiki 1.34.1 website

Hi, I wanted to import an XML dump of Wikipedia (about 75 Gb) into a website running MediaWiki 1.34.1. I read that MWDumper can't be used with MediaWiki 1.31 or later.

I also tried installing older versions of MediaWiki (e.x. 1.32 and 1.30), but when I do, I get this error in the installation process. (Notice: compact(): Undefined variable: digitGroupingPattern in C:\wamp64\www\mediawiki\includes\cache\localisation\LocalisationCache.php on line 530), and when the installation is complete, it does not read the "LocalSettings.php" file even when it's downloaded.

Can someone tell me the easiest way to upload an XML dump using 1.34.1 - or how to fix the errors with older MediaWiki installations? (I'd also like to upgrade the older installations to the latest MediaWiki version once the XML is imported, if I had to do it that way)? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IBBishops (talk • contribs) 23:07, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@IBBishops: If you don't get an answer here, you'd probably do better to ask at WP:VPT or, better yet, the MediaWiki software site (sorry I don't know the exact help page at mw:MediaWiki). You'll also want to read WP:FORK if you haven't. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 01:23, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

It's mw:Project:Support desk. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:44, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks--IBBishops (talk) 01:45, 11 May 2020 (UTC)