Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 April 17

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April 17

New page not showing views, but has edits.

Hi. Can anyone explain any technical reason why several editors have visited my newly created page at Protection Court in order to make edits, yet the page counter still shows 0 views? Also, several links have been made to the page, so there is some indication it has been viewed by more than just those who edited so I'm wondering what the heck is wrong... Huggums537 (talk) 00:57, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@Huggums537: Page views aren't transferred after moves. There are views at the former title Draft:Protection Court.[1] It takes some time for page views to be registered in page information. It was moved 23 hours ago and the views since then haven't been registered yet. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:30, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Wow. I didn't realize it hasn't even been a full day yet because so much has already been done. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I guess I need to take a Wikibreak... Huggums537 (talk) 01:38, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Mobile view

Please fix editing in mobile view on Firefox on F-Droid, it doesn't work with or without JS and I have to use the cringey desktop view. I had to input everything twice because I kept getting the "Request URI too long" message and it would wipe out the content of the editing window when I went back. 46.188.145.191 (talk) 02:49, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi there! I believe Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) would be the best place to ask for assistance with this issue. Good luck! GoingBatty (talk) 03:36, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

This was a software bug, it should be fixed now, see phab:T334797 163.1.15.238 (talk) 12:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Better logo for GitHub article

i want to replace the current logo in GitHub's article with this one.

GitHub Invertocat Logo

this logo is more prominently displayed in their website and app and elsewhere. Pritam Shaw🍀 (💬 • 📝) 03:43, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@Pritam Shaw: You can be bold and make the change by editing the GitHub article, going to the infobox and replacing |logo=GitHub logo 2013.svg with |logo=GitHub Invertocat Logo.svg and adding |logo_caption=GitHub Invertocat Logo. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 03:53, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Are the licenses for Invertocat logo correct? Should I instead of uploading in commons, go for uploading it in Wikipedia as fair use? Pritam Shaw🍀 (💬 • 📝)

@Pritam Shaw: No, the licenses are not quite correct. From https://github.com/logos, the logos are not free at all (for instance: Do not modify the permitted GitHub logos, including changing the color, dimensions, or combining with other words or design elements. is absolutely incompatible with CC-BY-SA). Hence, the Invertocat cannot be uploaded to Commons at all (I see it has been nominated for deletion). A raster graphics version (e.g. png) at low resolution could be uploaded to en-Wikipedia as WP:NFC tagged as {{Non-free logo}}, and then used at the article GitHub (probably not in other articles though).

On the other hand, the GitHub logo consists of the word "GitHub" in a not-too-fancy font, so it is most likely below the threshold of originality in US law. As such, it could be uploaded as public domain (and tagged {{PD-textlogo}}). Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 09:09, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

september 11 2001 attacks

I'd like to complain about the content for the above wiki page that contains a high level of disinformation and unproven theories, in fact conspiracy theories. 202.86.32.122 (talk) 04:37, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: September 11 attacks. The best place to make your complaint is the article's talk page. Maproom (talk) 07:16, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Issue with the "Torture" Page

 Courtesy link: Torture

Not a question. The "Torture" page on wikipedia has an innapropriate preview. 97.126.3.16 (talk) 04:55, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Meaning photo? Then I don't get it. I support Western neoliberalism but it is good to remember that "our side" was not always beyond reproach.

Thinking that US can do no harm is puerile. tgeorgescu (talk) 05:18, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

TL;DR: Wikipedia is not censored. It is a weird picture, yes, but it's appropriate for the subject. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 08:11, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@97.126.3.16: The statement at the top of this page — "This page is only for questions about using Wikipedia" — is at odds with your comment "Not a question." If you want to comment on an article's content, do so on its Talk Page, such as Talk:Torture. Bazza (talk) 08:13, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

The OP may be referring to the text that appears when you hover over the word Torture which has strange wording. It looks like it's been vandalised, but I'm not sure how to edit it. Turner Street (talk) 10:29, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

A null edit has fixed the preview text, at least for me. -- John of Reading (talk) 10:35, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Looks good to me now. Turner Street (talk) 10:40, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

How do you add hyperlinks?

They appear in blue text, once you click them they appear purple. They automatically bring you to another wikipedia page. How do you add those, given that I have the link of the Wikipedia page I want to make into a hyperlink? Ichliebepolska (talk) 06:30, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

See H:WIKILINK.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:52, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Publishing my Draft

Hi there, I am a little confused about a draft that I submitted last Wednesday. I have had no feedback on it yet (normally I receive it within in a few hours) and no updates as to when it will be approved to be published. Maybe it is because it is in German. Can anyone help? Sam Tucansevb (talk) 06:47, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Tucansevb. German language drafts must be submitted to the German Wikipedia. This is the English Wikipedia. They are two separate projects. Cullen328 (talk) 06:54, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi there,

This makes sense now. Thanks fro clarifying.

How can I transfer the content on the german wikipedia without the content and citations being messed up?

Cheers Tucansevb (talk) 06:58, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Tucansevb, copy the raw wikicode from your current draft and paste it into the German Wikipedia equivalent of a draft page or your sandbox page there, publish your changes, and begin proofreading and copyediting your new German Wikipedia draft. Cullen328 (talk) 07:29, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Perfect, have made it work. Thanks for your help. Tucansevb (talk) 10:52, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Vandalism inside my talk

Could someone do something about the vandalism notice I received within my talk (I received a vandalism notice for the addition of a dot, which was correct, by the way), posted by a user who had just been blocked (at 11:35; UTC time) indefinitely (long-term abuse)? According to the rules, I cannot delete any messages within my talk. JackkBrown (talk) 11:39, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

It just got solved. JackkBrown (talk) 11:41, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Sofya Gerstle has the weirdest edit history I've ever seen. The account was created over six years ago, but made no edit until this morning. It then started reverted constructive edits and leaving vandalism warnings, managing 19 in eight minutes before being blocked. Maproom (talk) 12:21, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown Just for information, it is perfectly OK to remove messages from your own Talk Pages, with the limited exceptions mentioned at WP:REMOVED. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:57, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Submit my page for publication

User:PiersMid1 is my wikipedia page that I have created. I am fully aware that I am NOT supposed to create my own wikipedia page and could theoretically get blacklisted for doing so, however, there is no way anyone could give me a wikipedia page that does me justice because I have worked in many different locations around the world and I am the only one who knows what to look for etc. I am thus hoping you will look at my page, maybe edit it to your satisfaction (hopefully not too much) and publish it. I would like to think I now have enough references and achievements to meet your requirements. Please let know what you think... User: Piers Midwinter (talk) 13:27, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Ignoring for the moment conflict of interest issues, and the fact that a contributor's user page isn't the right place to create an article, your page doesn't even remotely provide evidence that you meet WP:ARTIST notability criteria. None of the sources constitute in-depth coverage, and many seem not to even mention your name. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:36, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback. The first article simply proves I am the son of John Edwin Midwinter (it mentions my name). The second proves I was employed by TU Dresden. The third is a website I created. detailing the festival. The fourth and fifth references are articles that mention my name. The sixth is a youtube video proving that a private view took place at the New York exhibition. The seventh proves I had a group show in Beijing and mentions my name. The eighth reference is a mistake. The correct link for the Beijing International Biennale is: http://www.bjbiennale.com.cn/en/ExhibitionNews/202112/t20211207_574751.html Information on the Saigon artists Fair can be submitted via a document (denoting where my space will be located). I must admit - I can't remember which exact 2005 issue of Raw Vision this picture was featured in - which is vague! The last reference is an art collection featuring an artwork of mine and thus mentions my name. How many references do you need? I am confident I can find more about the 2004, 2005 and 2007 Festivals in particular. User: Piers Midwinter (talk) 13:59, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@PiersMid1, what is needed is more references about you. In fact, that is the most important thing needed; everything else could be safely discarded. Remove all references that don't mention you. Remove all references which mention your name and go into no further detail. Remove all references which are based on information you provided, whether via interview or press release or in some other form. How many are left, and which ones are they? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:07, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I have just submitted proof of my entry at the Saigon artist fair with an image... User: Piers Midwinter (talk) 14:11, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@PiersMid1, have you read Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Creative professionals? Which criteria do you meet? Also, you should remove all inline external links from the body of your draft (and you should also move your draft somewhere other than your user page - either to an actual draft page or to a subpage/sandbox). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:17, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Piers. Like many people, you misunderstand what Wikipedia is. Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. ColinFine (talk) 14:00, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

OK. I will work on it! Slowly... LOL. Not easy to get this information! User: Piers Midwinter (talk) 14:12, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@PiersMid1 Here's a suggestion - forget everything you know about yourself. Imagine you are someone who has never heard about you before but has been told to find as much information as possible about an artist named Piers Midwinter and write a brief about them. Your website does not exist; and things you have written about yourself do not exist. The only materials available to you to learn and write about Piers Midwinter are materials that were produced independently of you. Gather as much of that kind of material as possible and make sure you keep careful track of which nugget of information comes from which source. Then write the article, citing the sources you have used. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 14:49, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@PiersMid1: Expanding on @ONUnicorn's suggestion: Gather the information and then look at Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Creative professionals and ask yourself "Does the information gathered demonstrate that Midwinter meets Wikipedia's notability criteria?" If not, then stop here. If it does, then you can follow the instructions at Help:Your first article to write a draft, citing the sources you have gathered. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 16:35, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I have been approached by at least three wikipedia writers all wanting me to pay them money for this service - which means the rules can be bent and that they know they could get me a page. It is indeed notable how some people with almost no credentials appear to get wikipedia pages as a result of this! I will continue to find references and put them on my profile and at some point, I hope Wikipedia will realise that I had to do everything myself compared to others who probably bought articles and contacted buddies in the press... User: Piers Midwinter (talk) 00:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Those were not Wikipedia editors, those were predatory scammers trying to rip you off. --Orange Mike | Talk 04:48, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

LOL. Thanks for that. Can you please send me the HTML code of the page you deleted. It has taken a long time to collate it. I am aware that I published my own page. I have no other way to get this information online. So, if it is against Wikipedia rules, I would like to at least have everything on my website... Thanks again User: Piers Midwinter (talk) 04:59, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

@PiersMid1 "They know they could get me a page". No, they don't -- they are claiming they can create an article about you, and they will happily take your money and submit or publish something. If they, or anyone, creates an article that doesn't meet WP's guidelines, it will be deleted. And the paid authors will very likely keep the money you paid. David10244 (talk) 05:56, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

The Wikipedia system is dependent on articles published. Someone who can get many publications, thus fits your criteria no matter how rotten or worthless they may be! That results in truly incredible people like Einstein being put alongside the likes of murderers, perverts and other infamous weirdo's. When you do that, kids could grow up thinking that infamous acts are somehow tolerated and/or normal!!!! That is the problem in a nutshell. It is my contention that we should be educating future generations what is right, etc. That would require a change in policy from judging according to articles published to one based on values. I don't expect you to admit that as it is contentious... Thanks to OrangeMike for sending me the HTML - by the way... User: Piers Midwinter (talk) 06:57, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not supposed to be a place of censorship, nor is it supposed to espouse any one particular viewpoint. If a subject is notable enough for the encyclopedia it will probably be on here sooner or later. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:23, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

I have massively re-edited the page to include more references and less subjective statements. Please take a look and tell me what else you need. Thank you, kindly User: Piers Midwinter (talk) 03:21, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

I am unable to log into my other profile "https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Native_English_Speaking_Teacher" by the way. So, you could safely delete it and keep the photo :) please User: Piers Midwinter (talk) 03:37, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

I have massively shortened it... User:PiersMid1 Please check. If you are still unhappy, OK! At least I tried! haha User: Piers Midwinter (talk) 14:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

I left him my standard WP:U5 notice. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:49, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

See User talk:PiersMid1. This is all pointless, the user is very unhappy with our policies and guidelines and this is going to go nowhere. Doug Weller talk 07:37, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Argentina, tierra de amor y venganza

Some years ago there was a telenovela, Argentina, tierra de amor y venganza, and a few days ago a sequel has been released. As you can see at the official site, it has the same name, followed by "Segunda temporada" ("second season"). However, it is not a second season the way we would understand the term, but rather a new series set in the same universe, with its own characters and actors (basically, what Star Trek: The Next Generation was to Star Trek: The Original Series). As far as I know, there is no version translated to English, and so no official name in English.

How should I name an article about it?

• Argentina, tierra de amor y venganza: segunda temporada?
• Argentina, tierra de amor y venganza (segunda temporada)?
• Argentina, tierra de amor y venganza: second season?
• Argentina, tierra de amor y venganza (second season)?

Cambalachero (talk) 13:27, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

See, as an example, Doctor_Who_(season_14). Following that style you would use "Argentina, tierra de amor y venganza (second season)". The rationale is that "second season" is an English description. you would only use "segunda temporada" if it was part of the name. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:50, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Avoiding terms like 'recently', 'next year' in article text

Terms like 'recently', 'next year' are to be avoided. I remember there was a template to add a superscript "when?" to the text. Does anyone know where I can find that template? Oski (talk) 14:50, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@Oski: {{when}} Bazza (talk) 14:55, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I remember seeing that template recently. I hope I remember it next year! David10244 (talk) 05:58, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Asterisks in quotes

I'm sure we have a guideline on this somewhere, but I can't find it. If the source for a quote reads "a flat **** lie", how do we handle it? With a parenthetical note after, '(asterisks in original)' maybe? We have an article (Kara Hultgreen), which renders this as "a flat [ass] lie", which appears to be guesswork - or if it isn't, we need to cite the source it is actually based on, I'd think. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:27, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@AndyTheGrump: I think you would use the {{sic}} template. RudolfRed (talk) 15:45, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@AndyTheGrump From MOS:SIC: Wikipedians should never bowdlerize words (G-d d--m it!), but if the text being quoted itself does so, copy the text verbatim and use {{sic}} to indicate that the text is quoted as shown in the source. This seems to apply here. Shells-shells (talk) 15:55, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks both, that'll do it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:56, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Blocked for “vandalism”

I don’t get it Trammell0627 (talk) 16:05, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@Trammell0627, this account isn't blocked. Where are you seeing a "blocked for vandalism" message? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:08, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Is it possible to hide my personal common.js and common.css from public view?

Is it possible for those files to only be viewable by me (and admins if needed)? Or do I have to insert JavaScript/CSS by another method (such as TamperMonkey)? OutsideNormality (talk) 16:48, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

There's no way to hide them. I'm curious why you are worried about people seeing your common.js/common.css? Galobtter (talk) 16:50, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't want to get embarrassed. It's kind of a private reason. Thanks for the comment anyway! OutsideNormality (talk) 16:52, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

How do I get rid of "insecure input" in my style attribute?

If you look at my user page, you'll see the plain text "This user prefers they/them pronouns.". The fact is, it actually has a style applied to it. Full source:

<span style="font-size:8pt;padding: 12px 4px 12px 4px;border:1px solid black;background-image:url('https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Transgender_Pride_flag.svg');">This user prefers they/them pronouns.</span>

In testing, when I got rid of the background-image, the styles were applied, but then I re-added it, it overwrote the ENTIRE style with the text /* insecure input */ (I'm referring to the output here). You can see for yourself if you right click on the text and select "Inspect" (or similar). How do I get rid of this and apply the Transgender pride flag background? OutsideNormality (talk) 18:34, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@OutsideNormality I am afraid that the answer is you don't. The url() CSS function is not allowed on Wikipedia, because it can be used to insert arbitrary images into pages (regardless of wether their use would be allowed from a copyright standpoint), and suppresses the link to the file description page, so author attribution for CC-BY-SA and similar licenses isn't available either. What you could do is something like

<span>[[File:Transgender_Pride_flag.svg|16px|frameless]] This user prefers they/them pronouns</span>

which renders as This user prefers they/them pronouns. Hope this helps. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 19:49, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Another option, @OutsideNormality, is to create a custom userbox (perhaps using an existing one as a template, for instance this). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:03, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! OutsideNormality (talk) 20:15, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

MediaWiki does allow to omit or change the file page link with |link= like in . It must only be used if the image license allows it like the public domain File:Transgender Pride flag.svg. The url() CSS function is disallowed because it can load external content, for example from a website which tracks users. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:09, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Question

If you believe a article does not meet Wikipedia standards and therefore needs to be deleted, If you add a redirect on the article without going through the deletion process is this against Wikipedia rules? I have seen a lot of people doing this and it is annoying. Aaron106 (talk) 19:47, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

A redirect is an alternative to deletion. Often a stand alone article will be written on some topic that is actually better covered in the context of a broader topic, for example, an album is often better covered in the context of the article about the band that produced it. Don't get annoyed; just ensure the information is adequately presented in the broader article. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 20:06, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Or else open a discussion on the talk page - either of the redirected article, or of the target article, and see if you can reach consensus. ColinFine (talk) 20:21, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

It allows a single editor to reduce a complete set of articles to a simple list with no notable information. The list can then be sent for WP:AFD. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:54, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

WorldCat Identities

"Worldcat Identities project is [now: was] taken down". No point in archiving the links: "dubious quality, lack of sources" (quotes from d:Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P7859). Can someone submit a delete request for the protected Template:WorldCat id? German Wikipedia de:Vorlage:Worldcat id has been deleted already. @Kadı: FYI. 2A02:2454:986D:F700:DCEA:D7B6:FEEF:B1A3 (talk) 21:36, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2023 April 17#Template:WorldCat id * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:50, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Edit

I want to edit one sentence in an article. I cannot figure out where the edit button is. Please explain in one sentence; I do not have time to read user guides. Llgaddy (talk) 22:28, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

There is a bar at the top part of the page with "main page" "talk" on it. Look on the right side. It is says "view source" that means it is a protected page and you need permissions to edit it. PalauanReich (talk) 22:43, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

From whom? Just wanted to add some information about the man, now deceased. I named a plant species in his honor. Llgaddy (talk) 00:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

This would need to be documented in a published reliable source like a news story or academic peer reviewed journal.

The other user does not mean that you need permission from a person, you need technical permissions to edit a protected article. It would help to know which article you are talking about. Wikipedia is not always quick and easy; there is a learning curve. 331dot (talk) 01:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

@Llgaddy: You can also use the Wikipedia:Edit Request Wizard to submit your suggestion on what to add to the article (along with the reliable source), and someone with the appropriate permissions can determine whether to make the changes. GoingBatty (talk) 01:44, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Is it OK to describe a statement by the subject of a BLP as "bizarre"?

While looking at the article about Merav Michaeli (the current leader of the Israeli Labor Party), I noticed that it included the text "She bizzarly (sic) answered that ...". Believing that such language is not acceptable in Wikipedia, I deleted the word "bizzarly". On the article's Talk page, I created the Topic "Neutral point of view", in which I wrote "[...] That kind of language is not in line with WP:NPOV (Neutral point of view) and, so, is not suitable for use in Wikipedia." The editor who had added that text to the article, replied on the Talk page, challenging my statement that the statement violates WP:NPOV. While I'm pretty sure that editors should not be including adjectives like "bizarre" in Wikipedia articles, I'm not sure whether this is because of WP:NPOV or whether WP:WORDS is more relevant. Please advise. Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 22:57, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Looking at the article, I can't see any obvious reason why her response to this one specific question needs to be include at all, given the lack of any evidence that any published reliable source thought it significant. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:06, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi @AndyTheGrump, that's a useful response but, for my own education as well as for my yet-to-be-written response to the editor, what is the answer to my original question? Thanks! Misha Wolf (talk) 23:15, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

"Bizarre" is definitely a loaded and non-neutral word that should never be used in wikivoice. At most it can be used to report what someone else said, as in "multiple commentators called her statement 'bizarre'". -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 23:33, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Misha Wolf (talk) 23:50, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

The page about myself is inaccurate because the 'reputable sources' are in accurate

I've never had a journalist's interview that managed a fully accurate account of my life or books, yet they are regarded as reputable sources. It's frusrating t 119.12.209.129 (talk) 23:50, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

You can post an edit request on the article's talk page. Take a look at these:

• WP:Edit request
• WP:Guide_to_effective_COI_edit_requests

-- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 00:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

If journalists do not write about you correctly, you will first have to take that up with them and get them to issue corrections, before coming here, or you may offer independent reliable sources that do write about you accurately and/or describe why other sources do not. Unfortunately we can't just take your word for it. 331dot (talk) 00:23, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

It would be helpful to know what article this is about and what you consider inaccurate. That way we could check how that information is sourced. If it is correctly sourced and there are no reliable sources to contradict it changing or removing it may not be possible according to Wikipedia's rules. See WP:Verifiability, not truth. -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 00:31, 18 April 2023 (UTC)