Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 April 26

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April 26

Incorrect usage of "America"

Sirs - The United States of America is actually "The United States", NOT "America". - "America" refers to either North America (Mexico, USA or Canada) or South America (including all of the countries which lie below a specific boundary separating North and South. - Mexico, nor any other country, would refer to itself as Mexico of America, or simply America. - Ditto Canada. They are either Mexico or Canada. - Why should the country in the middle of North America call itself "America" or call themselves "Americans" Everyone in North America and South America are "Americans" but they correctly identify themselves simply with the country's name.

Why do Americans who happen to live in the USA name themselves "Americans".

ALL OF US WHO LIVE IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE ARE AMERICANS! SURPRISE. 2604:3D08:5688:E000:AC27:FB9F:B193:C744 (talk) 01:27, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

See American (word). The common consensus on Wikipedia is that American, unless otherwise specified, usually refers to the United States or something relating to it. At this point, any attempt to change such will likely be quickly shut down per Wikipedia's Snowball clause. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 01:35, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, answer to question is consensus or convention. Certainly is nice to have consistency among documents for a longer period of time than the duration between one political revelation and another. USA's founders established this convention and a consensus grew thereafter. For example, the currency in my wallet says at the top of each bill "United States of America". Shorter name developed out of need. Another example, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands is referred to and mentioned in conversation as its acronym CNMI, and no one objects. JohnOren (talk) 19:00, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia uses words as they are used in our sources. When our sources use "America" to refer to the USA, we do the same. Wikipedia is not the place to "correct" your perceived misuse of "America". See WP:RGW. -Arch dude (talk) 03:18, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

So, re "Why do Americans who happen to live in the USA name themselves Americans", as you say, they do is all; we follow the herd, and when that changes we will. Besides, there's no good demonym or adjective for United States, as there is for Brazilian or Canadian or Honduran etc. "United Statesian" doesn't roll off the tongue. Herostratus (talk) 03:28, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not the place to right great wrongs. The vast majority of the English language usage of the word "American" since 1789 refers to things related to the United States. Canadians and Mexicans certainly do not commonly call themselves "Americans", and Canadians in particular take offense at being called "Americans". Wikipedia will never be in the vanguard of language change. Please read American (word). Cullen328 (talk) 07:13, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

As a Canadian, I can confirm what Cullen328 said. Don't call us Americans, especially nowadays. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:36, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Frank Lloyd Wright tried to import the Esperanto adjective "Usona" as "Usonian", but it didn't take (to put it gently). --Orange Mike | Talk 14:12, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Donating Option

Hi, i am from india . I try to donate money to u but i failed.Would you add the option PhonePe so i can donate 2409:4088:9C94:E082:5562:360D:69A6:E11 (talk) 01:41, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

If the options at https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give don't work for you, contact donate@wikimedia.org for help. RudolfRed (talk) 01:46, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

You might be interested to read about Wikipedia finances before you donate. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:11, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

English term for bread baking failure?

As seen in File:Zakalec w babce cytrynowej.jpg. Polish word is "zakalec" but I am not sure what the English word is? I'd like to add this image to the right Commons category, if one exists. Pl wiki has article on pl:zakalec but it's not linked to any other language; the concept seems notable. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:18, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

The best I can manage is "failure to rise". Maproom (talk) 06:39, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

This reminds me that I had a friend in high school in Detroit who was born in Hamtramck, Michigan to Polish immigrant parents. He claimed to be fully fluent in Polish and challenged me to refute his language skills. I asked him what the Polish word for towel was, and he replied, "I don't know". At least he was kind enough to bring back an East German Praktica 35 mm camera for me on his summer trip to Poland. I think I paid him $50, which was a lot of money in the late 1960s. Cullen328 (talk) 06:56, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

[Digression] But well worth it. When I took up photography in the 1980s, I deliberately bought a 2nd-hand manual Practika MTL5 in order to teach myself photography without support from auto-features. If it hadn't eventually developed a light leak I'd probably still be using it. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.213.18.208 (talk) 02:04, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

@Maproom Failure to rise makes sense from a descriptive point. But... is this a concept with no English word? @Nihil novi. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:30, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

It's possible, I can't think of a Swedish one. I noticed awhile back that there is no Swedish word for relish, though we have Bostongurka. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:47, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Three of my dictionaries define zakalec (noun), zakalcowaty (adjective):

1. zakalec: "a doughy part (of badly baked pastry)". "zakalcowaty: doughy"

2. zakalec: "slack-baked bread (or cake)". "zakalcowaty: slack-baked; doughy; sodden; sad"

3. zakalec: "miejsce w cieście nie dopieczone" ["an incompletely baked place in the dough"], "nie wyrośnięte" ["unrisen"]: "babka z zakalcem". "zakalcowaty: mający zakalce: zakalcowaty placek."

The Polish expressions seem to describe a half-baked part of a baked good.

The Polish Wikipedia article on "zakalec" (pl:zakalec) lists 10 hypotheses concerning possible causes of the phenomenon.

If no succinct English term for this phenomenon can be found, this may be a case where the Polish language has achieved an advantage over the English language.

Nihil novi (talk) 08:48, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

underbaked? Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 12:06, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Half-baked! --Orange Mike | Talk 14:15, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Thus a title for File:Zakalec w babce cytrynowej.jpg might be "Half-baked lemon babka".

Nihil novi (talk) 21:52, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

@Nihil novi Or is underbaked better? Half-baked implies precision (50%), which is not present in the Polish term. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:13, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Per Wiktionary, "half-baked" is not precisely "50% baked", but "partially cooked by heating in an oven."

"Underbaked" means "baked insufficiently, or less than usual", which implies that the whole babka was underbaked, whereas it is only part of it that (due to one or more causes) turned out badly.

Nihil novi (talk) 03:25, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

"Underbaked" means "baked insufficiently, or less than usual", which implies that the whole babka was underbaked, whereas it is only part of it that (due to one or more causes) turned out badly. I do not think that this is a usual understanding of what "underbaked" means.

Both words are appropriate, but I would prefer underbaked because: 1. half-baked is usually used in its idiomatic sense to refer to a poorly thought-out idea, and you very rarely see it used culinarily; 2. when used culinarily, to me it has the connotation of referring not to a fault in food, but rather to an intermediary step in the cooking process, as in the example given in wiktionary: "When the casserole is half-baked, take it out and sprinkle the grated cheese on top". Underbaked, on the other hand, specifically denotes that the lack of baking is a fault rather than a deliberate intermediate step. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 16:02, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

I find the fact that Polish has a word that means this is pretty cool. But I think I agree with Caeciliusinhorto-public that "underbaked" is the probably the single best word in English for this, even if it acts the useful nuance the Polish has. Skynxnex (talk) 16:18, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Of course, unleavened is a word, but usually denotes a deliberate recipe; I don't know if it would be understood if used to refer to "failed leavening." {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.213.18.208 (talk) 02:08, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

How about "ill-baked"? The Polish article on the subject (pl:zakalec) lists 10 hypothetical causes for this kind of poor result. "Underbaking" is the least likely (why would only a small part of the lemon babka be underbaked?).

Nihil novi (talk) 04:44, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

How to correct the spelling of the title in a Wikipedia page.

The name of the actor is Rohitashv Gour but It is wrongly updated on Wikipedia as Rohitash Gaud. Kindly assist Rohitashvgour (talk) 06:33, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Rohitashvgour. Reliable sources seem to discuss an actor named Rohitash Gaud. Are these two different people or one person with two variants of their name? Can you explain the discrepancy? Cullen328 (talk) 06:45, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I did a search on this and wondered if there are alternative spellings of this name, as mentioned here.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:47, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikipdia policy is to use the spelling most often used by reliable sources. The article cites 19 sources. Four use the spelling "Rohitash Gaud", fourteen do not mention him, and one gives a 404 message. So unless much sourcing can be found, the title of the article should stay as it is. Maproom (talk) 06:53, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Check his Verified Instagram Profile and Facebook Page and then you can Decide Rohitashvgour (talk) 13:04, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

The Page is of Mr. Rohitashv Gour, the wrong spelling is mentioned. He has FB and Insta verified page and Profile.

https://www.instagram.com/rohitashvgour/ Rohitashvgour (talk) 13:02, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I made this edit [1], added a redirect and started Talk:Rohitash_Gaud#Spelling_of_name_in_article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:22, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

• Rohitashvgour Are you Mr. Gour? If not, why are you using his name as your username? As you have been told, what matters here is how independent reliable sources spell his name. If they have it wrong, this individual needs to contact them to get them to issue corrections. 331dot (talk) 13:05, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, this is Mr. Gour. I want to get this corrected. Rohitashvgour (talk) 14:08, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

@Rohitashvgour: Wikipedia reports what the reliable sources say. You cannot correct this in Wikipedia even if you are the subject and you know that the sources are incorrect. You must contact the sources and have them issue corrections. Sources directly related to the subject (instagram and facebook) do not count, but if other independent sources use a different name, we can at least indicate that both names are in use in reliable sources. Note that we do not have a paid staff that can verify that you are who you say you are and we have no desire or resources to implement such a mechanism. For all we know you could be an enemy of the subject trying to inject false information. Reliable sources have editorial mechanisms to verify their information, and their articles are published under the bylines of the reporters. -Arch dude (talk) 14:42, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

@Rohitashvgour: Because you have a conflict of interest, you should not be editing the Wikipedia article about yourself. Instead, you should declare your conflict on your user page. You may also submit edit requests on the article's talk page Talk:Rohitash Gaud or use the Wikipedia:Edit Request Wizard. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 14:59, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Publication

good morinng sir.... how can see what publication in wikipedia Likpata95 (talk) 08:45, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Likpata95 Hello. I'm not clear on what it is you are asking. 331dot (talk) 08:47, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

The navigation page Wikipedia:Contents/Portals may be what you are looking for. (It's linked on the Main Page.) {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.213.18.208 (talk) 02:14, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Can do I know the size of the document ?

If I use REVISIONSIZE in the document, I can know the size of the document, but can I know the size of other documents in the frame? 222.117.225.233 (talk) 11:14, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

This is incoherent. 331dot (talk) 11:15, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

{{REVISIONSIZE}} is a magic word. It does not allow a parameter for another page. You can only get the size of the page itself. Magic words have parameters after a colon so if another page was allowed then the syntax would have been {{REVISIONSIZE:Example}} but it doesn't work. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:29, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

What I want is to know the size of a particular document like a long list of documents with statistics. thamks.. 222.117.225.233 (talk) 06:15, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't think you can do it in wikitext for display in a wiki page. If it's just for yourself then maybe you can work with mw:API:Info. This gives the length of both A and B: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&titles=A%7CB&prop=info. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:19, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter you can use {{PAGESIZE:page name}} to get the size of an arbitrary page, e.g. {{PAGESIZE:Example}} produces 1,390. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 15:09, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! mw:Manual:$wgExpensiveParserFunctionLimit is set to 500 for Wikimedia wikis in https://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=CommonSettings.php. That means you can get 500 page sizes on the same page if it doesn't use other expensive parser functions. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:28, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

thanks your sincere 222.117.225.233 (talk) 09:40, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Uploading a Page from Sandbox

Hi, I am a new user.

I would like to know how can I publish a new page (about a medical person) and post it as an Wikipedia page.

I have a draft of it in my sandbox.

Thanks a lot!

Bnaya. BnayaMeir (talk) 12:11, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

BnayaMeir You have no edits to a sandbox. If you have not yet clicked "publish changes", that simply means "save", it does not mean "publish this to the encyclopedia". New accounts cannot directly create articles(the preferred term, not the broader "page") and need to use Articles for Creation to create and submit a draft. 331dot (talk) 12:16, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

No, BnayaMeir, User:BnayaMeir/sandbox is empty, and indeed your question above is the only edit you have ever made. The way to publish a new page starts with getting practice improving existing pages. -- Hoary (talk) 12:20, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

@BnayaMeir: I can see you have been working on a page at User:BnayaMeir/sandbox but you have to click "Publish page" to save the draft. If you make changes later then it becomes "Publish changes". Both terms just mean that the saved edits are visible to others, not that they become part of the encyclopedia. Post again here when you have saved it so we can see what you have and give advice on the next step. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:15, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Also, if you have a personal or professional relationship with this person, please review WP:COI. You can still submit the draft for review once it's done, we just ask that folks be upfront about any potential conflicts of interest. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:19, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

This is Eldren Bahian Lorca Sr,162 world books of Guinness Records in Facebook and 31 other sites,tabs,chromes,browsers in the PHilippines 49.148.133.141 (talk) 13:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Preferred method to attract editor eyes after one has fixed a source flagged as "Unverified"?

Greetings. The article in question is The Everly Brothers#1960s–1970s more specifically the last graf.

I have removed the Rolling Stone URL and placed a new one from [Time (magazine)] which should resolve the issue I believe.

I tried reading the article on [Wikipedia:Verifiability] but couldn't locate any material within it detailing what one should do to get a new source reviewed to see if it passes muster to remove the flag.GBrady (talk) 12:33, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

GBrady the flag referred to the Rolling Stone citation. If you remove the citation, you should remove the flag. TSventon (talk) 12:54, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

@GBrady:  Fixed GoingBatty (talk) 14:53, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

In most cases, there is no requirement to get an edit reviewed. If you are concerned, then ask at a relevant WikiProject (see the article's talk page for which WikiProjects have been linked). But in general, editing works according to WP:BRD: if nobody reverts your edit, it has been accepted (insofar as that means anything). Of course, another editor may come along in months or years and disagree, and revert or otherwise alter your edit. ColinFine (talk) 13:45, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Way to detect what skin a visitor is using

Hi all. I hope this question has not been asked too many times before. My user page uses the File:Bathrobecabalicon.png image on the top left of the page (just for a bit of fun, obviously). However, this only really works on the MonoBook skin, which is the one I use. On other skins, it either looks off, is wrong, or doesn't appear at all. With the recent switchover to the new Vector 2022 skin, I am wondering if there is a way to perhaps change the position of the image or hide it if the user is using a skin other than MonoBook? Any help is appreciated. If the effect/element is not allowed in userpages for whatever reason please notify me and you are free to go ahead and remove it from my userpage. - Cheers, KoolKidz112 (hit me up) 14:50, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Template for article written in other language?

While using "Random Article" to check for unmarked stubs, I came across the article Oulad Ayad, which has a significant portion of it written in Spanish. Is there a template to mark things like this? TypoEater (talk) 15:15, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

That was vandalism. I've reverted it. Deor (talk) 15:30, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Oh. TypoEater (talk) 16:49, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

In answer to your question, @TypoEater: {{not English}} or {{translatePassage}}. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:44, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Help category

At Template:Admin dashboard there is a category on the upper right called "Wikipedians looking for help"; one request is outstanding, and it is apparently related to User talk:Chrisdevelop/sandbox. Because the user is receiving help, I've tried to clear the category in a few different ways. None worked, so I reverted all my attempts. What am I doing wrong?--Bbb23 (talk) 15:36, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

It was the subcategory itself which was counted as 1, not its member. Fixed by [2]. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:24, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I would never have figured that out. Thanks, PrimeHunter.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:28, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Yearbook pic

I want to add a scanned photo of a High School Yearbook photo for an individual with a Wikipedia article that has no photo of him. There is no copyright and the photo/scan is of good quality. Is there a way to do this? Freeman24601 (talk) 16:38, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

It may be copyrighted. What year? What country? Is there no copyright notice anywhere in the book? --Orange Mike | Talk 16:51, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Freeman24601: Basically anything that is published is copyrighted by default: no notice is needed. Unless there is a written notification that the copyright has been released or the item's copyright is licensed under a suitable copyright license, we cannot use it. (There are exceptions, but probably do not apply here.) -Arch dude (talk) 16:53, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

@Freeman24601 Yearbooks, and the info in them, are generally copyrighted, as far as I know. When I went to school, a professional company took most (or all?) of the student pictures that were used in the yearbook. Families who wanted extra copies or enlargements needed to pay for them, and most families did buy extras. A captive audience... anyway, the pictures were copyrighted, even though the pictures published in the book may have lacked a copyright symbol. I think the backs of the reprints were marked. David10244 (talk) 10:44, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

As of January 2023, images that were created in 1927 or before, or images that are works of the Federal Government, are in the public domain, and can be altered without seeking special permission.(https://splc.org/2023/02/yearbook-law-faq/#:~:text=As%20of%20January%202023%2C%20images%20that%20were%20created%20in%201927%20or%20before%2C%20or%20images%20that%20are%20works%20of%20the%20Federal%20Government%2C%20are%20in%20the%20public%20domain%2C%20and%20can%20be%20altered%20without%20seeking%20special%20permission.) PaulGamerBoy360 (talk) 19:38, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Guidance on handling Rebranding of Offensive Security to OffSec?

• Some time around March 1, 2023 a rebrand was announced.[3][4]
• An editor (with relatively few edits Special:Contributions/Gt6336) changed the Offensive Security article on March 5, 2023, and moved it to OffSec and changed it a little more on March 27.[5]. Similar, with fewer editorial changes, was done at OffSec_Certified_Professional, formerly Offensive Security Certified Professional.
• I am not sure if this is is best described as Rebranding#Corporate_rebranding or Rebranding#Small_business_rebranding, but should it follow the example of Altria where the rebranding is covered in the article, or should it be a simple name substitution as done by Gt6336?
• An example of concern in OffSec is the change to say: In 2019, J.M. Porup of CSO online wrote "few infosec certifications have developed the prestige in recent years of the OffSec Certified Professional (OSCP)," because the citation actually says "Offensive Security" not Offsec, so the quotation longer matches the source.
• Note: Related articles Kali_Linux and Kali_NetHunter have not yet been changed to reflect the rebrand.
• Note2: This has not been discussed on the articles' Talk pages. A COI notification by another editor, and claim of non-COI is at User_talk:Gt6336.
• I feel the edits at OffSec and OffSec_Certified_Professional should be mostly undone and the rebrand should be handled differently, but would feel better having independent confirmation first. Thanks. -- Yae4 (talk) 16:48, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

  @Yae4: Hi there! The best place to have these discussions would be the article's talk pages. I suggest one central location on the talk page where it makes sense, and then posts on the other talk pages directing editors to the central discussion. GoingBatty (talk) 18:48, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

  @GoingBatty: Thanks. Done. -- Yae4 (talk) 11:38, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikiprojects

How do you create wikiprojects?Blitzfan51 (talk) 18:32, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

@Blitzfan51, see here. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:35, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Blitzfan51. Worth noting is that Wikiprojects only succeed when there exists a critical mass of committed editors devoted to making the project succeed. The heyday of Wikiprojects was about 15 to 20 years ago, when Wikipedia was in a rapid growth phase, with countless unwritten articles about obviously notable topics. These days, the vast majority of Wikiprojects are either dead or almost dead. A small minority of highly active Wikiprojects survive and flourish. Those related to women's history and military history come to mind, but pretty much every Wikiproject that interested me in 2010 is dead. But I still continue to try to improve the encyclopedia, and do not care thst the era of Wikiprojects has mostly passed. Cullen328 (talk) 07:46, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Vandalism help request from 2600:6C64:7800:3F34:18AF:C18:E9AE:9F06

I have noticed some vandalism at Jacqueline d'Escoman.https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_d%27Escoman Namely, the French page has random and inappropriate place of birth, place of death, and activity. The correct details are Orphin (birth), Paris (death), paid companion/lady-in-waiting (activity). Would an editor please assist me with fixing it? Thank you, 2600:6C64:7800:3F34:18AF:C18:E9AE:9F06 (talk) 18:51, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

The wrong info was actually coming from Wikidata ([6]). I've restored the good version, but I don't know how long it will take the change to propagate. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:48, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Link a name

On the page - Material requirements planning - Oliver Wight is attributed as founding MRP II, but there is no page linked to who he was. How can a page be established to outline who Oliver Wight was? ALSO, he was the originator of Sales and Operations Planning (S&OP) - but is not mentioned on Sales and operations planning - Wikipedia

He is a hero of business planning. LGOWA (talk) 18:53, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

@LGOWA, if you can find a reliable source which backs up your statement, feel free to add such a statement to Sales and operations planning. I'd recommend reading Help:Your first article very carefully to get an idea of Wikipedia's requirements as far as article creation goes. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:36, 26 April 2023 (UTC)