Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 November 5

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November 5

Funny search results

I just ran a search for "South East Melbourne" after finding that it doesn't exist. Nearly all the early results (no surprise) are related to the South East Melbourne Phoenix or South East Melbourne Magic, two basketball clubs, but result #51 is South-East Melbourne, a redirect to geography of Melbourne.

Why isn't South-East Melbourne one of the top results? If I didn't know otherwise, I would expect it be the leading search (before the Phoenix and the Magic), since it's identical to the search term, except for a single punctuation character. Nyttend (talk) 02:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not able to duplicate: when I type search string "South East Melbourne", four articles appear in order: South East Melbourne Phoenix, South East Melbourne Phoenix all-time roster, South East Melbourne Magic, and Geography of Melbourne. However, as soon as I tap "enter" to execute the search, I'm redirected to Geography of Melbourne with no search result page displayed.

Outside of regular expressions, the search extension treats punctuation as "greyspace characters", equivalent to each other and to whitespace, so the hyphen does not matter.

Nyttend, which namespaces are included in your search and which search ordering are you using? Those might be affecting your results. Folly Mox (talk) 13:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I went to Special:Search (not the search bar on all pages) and typed there, with all default settings, including "Content Pages"; I don't know how to modify the search ordering. I'm familiar with Boolean, so I included the quotation marks to exclude references to South Melbourne that just happened to mention "east" somewhere else. If I remove the quotation marks, I see results comparable to yours (Phoenix, Magic, East Melbourne, geography, and South Melbourne), but with the quotation marks, it's again in the 50s. Nyttend (talk) 18:34, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Using that method, my results match (i.e. Geography of Melbourne way down the list). The search box uses CompletionSuggester, while Special:Search does not. I suppose the difference between the two comes down to "Content Pages", which I don't see anywhere in Minerva or Vector 2022, but which would exclude redirects from being searched. The CompletionSuggester resolves redirects.

The basketball topics are probably weighted more heavily because of things like e.g. membership in Category:South East Melbourne Phoenix players or multiple outgoing wikilinks to South East Melbourne Magic. Categories are indexed independently of article text, and multiple indices are searched and combined in the displayed search results. Maybe the category search results are weighted too heavily when searching for multi-word strings enclosed in quotation marks?

When I followed your provided search link, and altered the final url parameter from fulltext=1 to fulltext=0, again I'm redirected immediately to Geography of Melbourne. So the results seem to turn on the fulltext parameter, its relation to "Content Pages" vs redirects, and its interface with the category search index.

In Minerva and Vector 2022, the search ordering can be modified within the "Advanced options" dropdown underneath the input box and above the namespace selection dropdown (and can be randomised by altering the url parameter sort= to sort=random). Not sure about other skins. Folly Mox (talk) 13:59, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

So different skins have different options on the search screen? Weird! I've always used Monobook, since it was the default when I registered my account. Nyttend (talk) 18:08, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Just tested with ?useskin=monobook, and the search ordering options are still in the "Advanced options" dropdown (towards the bottom of the dropdown).

I kept Monobook till 2021, when my last laptop died. I still need to switch to desktop view occasionally to run Twinkle / Rater / Prosesize, etc., or to view navboxes, but I switched to Vector 2022 for my desktop skin since I felt it would be the most useful for helping new users. Folly Mox (talk) 18:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Talking about inappropriate or too personal topics with other people on Wikipedia

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

•  Courtesy link: WP:HD § Permanently Banned on Hebrew Wikipedia
• Moved to archives:  Courtesy link: Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2024 November 1 § Permanently Banned on Hebrew Wikipedia

Hi everyone, sorry to open a new question here out of nowhere again. I have an important question to ask you all now.

Well, you see... it seems part of the reason I was banned on the Hebrew Wikipedia was because I talked to them by mistake about drugs, alcohol, and getting laid(sex). I understand these topics are very personal and intimate, and might be considered inappropriate sometimes. Or, as I see things now, maybe its not just "sometimes", but "always". Is that true? Its not allowed to talk to other people on Wikipedia, about drugs, alcohol, and sex? if so, why are these topics so wrong and rude? We have articles on these things and there are full details including explicit photos about these things, so why its okay to leave these articles with the explicit content. But, when I try to talk to other people on Wikipedia about alcohol, drugs or sex, they appear very nervous, worried, angry, disappointed... and I can understand these things arent to be discussed publicly or between people who dont know each other at all, or good enough. But as you all probably know, we have articles about these things including explicit photos. And deep inside, we all watch porn sometimes, we all drink and become drunk sometimes, and we all take medications. And we all get laid. I'm sorry if I sound rude or maybe even crossing the line as they say. But, I must receive a clarification about these things before I explode out of confusion and numbness. With all that being said, if its not allowed to talk about alcohol, drugs and sex on Wikipdia with anybody, then I'll do what you say and will stop talking about it with anybody else on Wikipedia. We're all here to make Wikipedia a better place, and I'm part of this amazing community and all that. I dont "think" the community here is amazing, I KNOW. So if you're so amazing, I hope you can please give me a reply about what I'm asking now, despite how intimate, personal, and controversial alcohol, drugs and sex can be. Of course, What happened on Hebrew Wikipedia that got me banned wont happen here ever again. You can be sure about that. I just need a detailed answer about what I asked now. Thats all I need, and I'll continue editing like I always do because I love Wikipedia so much. Noam Atadgy (talk) 02:17, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encylopedia, not social media, so unless your disclosures have some bearing on article content, it isn't appropriate. There are plenty of other sites where you can do that sort of thing. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Remember that the Hebrew Wikipedia is a separate project. We have no influence over their policies or who they choose to ban. 331dot (talk) 08:51, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

so nobody here cares about the ban on hebrew wikipedia? Noam Atadgy (talk) 01:25, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Noam Atadgy, I doubt it was the "intimate" content of your chat that got you banned. I suspect it would have been the same if you'd persisted in chatting about stamp collecting. We, and the editors at he:WP, are here to build encyclopedias, not to chat. Maproom (talk) 09:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, to help you understand the situation better, I need to explain to you what I talked about in private emails with one of the admins of Hebrew Wikipedia.

Well, you see... the idiot argued with me about a few useless things. He was very rude and disrespectful in emails, and I was relatively polite considering the "go fuck yourself" I've heard from him/her a few times in emails when I've been in touch with him. To tell someone to "go fuck yourself" is disrespectful no matter how or what way you use to look at things, and I was rude back, because I couldnt help being offended, feeling insulted and uncomfortable with someone else telling me to "go fuck" myself. That's extremely disrespectful. Beyond the disrespect of Hebrew Wikipedia Admins, I've encountered alot of disrespectful Wikipedians as well, you know, the community itself who edit the wikipedia to help improve it? They're there to improve it, including myself, but at the same time... they are there to be rude, to insult other people, to make other people feel bad and ashamed of themselves. Thats insane. I couldn't believe my eyes for a few moments, but afterwards, I realized the Hebrew Wikipedia tries to turn me into the monster, and not the other way around. I have too many screenshots and evidence of what I'm explaining to you right now, and thats why, I am not afraid to explain it to you now. I hope you understand.

If you still believe I'm the idiot who shouldnt take part in the Hebrew Wikipedia again, you've got a serious mental problem and you need help.

What do you have to say about the disrespectful admin who talked to me in emails, the admin from the hebrew wikipedia, and the overall rude nature of the Hebrew Wikipedia community?

I can only tell you one thing to conclude things up: I'm the one who wanted to help improve Hebrew Wikipedia, and I still want to do so, but you're not letting me do so with your strange, unfair and stupid bans and blocks which came to me as a big surprise out of nowhere, without me violating any rules, other than simply sharing private matters and perhaps being a little rude. But being "a little rude" is nothing compared to the "go fuck yourself" your admin told me in emails. Noam Atadgy (talk) 11:10, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Noam Atadgy: In case you do not get the hint, there is nothing that the English Wikipedia community may do to help with your situation on Hebrew Wikipedia. And it appears that no one here thus far wants to take up your cause. Directions have been provided to you on how to resolve the issue by yourself. Please proceed to Meta wiki instead of continuing here.

If you wish to press on your issue with Hebrew Wikipedia and/or its admin(s) further and not focusing on improving the content on English Wikipedia here, don't be surprised if someone requests that you are to be blocked on English Wikipedia for not being here to build an encyclopedia, or an admin here doing so without further notice. – robertsky (talk) 11:29, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, cya then. Noam Atadgy (talk) 01:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, Im here to help building wikipedia, but I stopped editing recently, not because I'm banned and cant edit, but because Im angry about Hebrew Wikipedia admins. I need somebody here, to tell me how to take care of them, without having to contact them directly, but maybe there's other admin from here or other place I can talk to, to help me take care of them. They are very rude and disrespectful, and they ban for no valid reason, you understand? Not because I'm some bored idiot who isnt here to help improve wikipedia, and so on.

And yes, meta wiki, how do I contact someone there to help me take care of hebrew wikipedia?

When I contact hebrew wikipedia by email, I already explained above, how rude they are in emails and refuse to help or listen to what I have to say. Now, they ignore me and dont answer any emails I send anymore. I have no one to talk to about this. I visited the link you sent of Meta wiki, but no one to talk to on there. Noam Atadgy (talk) 01:12, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry mate, if you can explain? It says on there:

Create a subpage with a suitable name, for example Requests for comment/Reforming the RFC process and content:

{{rfc subpage

|status =

|comment =

|date = 20241106011523

}}

Below this describe your issue and submit the edit. Don't forget to sign your initial statement. The link to your page will automatically appear here, thus do not try to add it manually, but you may have to use the "Purge" link above, otherwise it may take some days until it happens.

Please ensure that you meet the requirements for opening a RFC, and that you notify the required parties or wikis, as per Requests for comment/Policy.

How do I do that? It doesnt let me edit the page and add a subpage. Noam Atadgy (talk) 01:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

i dont know what a subpage is or how to create it unfortunately. Noam Atadgy (talk) 01:27, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

maybe i was banned because one of your hebrew wikipedia admins was bored and found an easy target. Noam Atadgy (talk) 01:27, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

You keep saying “your Hebrew admins” but as people have said, the different language Wikipedias function independently - like different subreddits or Facebook groups. It does not make sense to ask people in a random one to help with you being banned or having grievances in a different one. -- NotCharizard ^🗨 06:28, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Urgent request to sustain the credibility of two pages.

I’m hoping someone can advise on how to get an administrator to review an issue, or even if it is an administrator that I next need to involve. I’ve seen the templates available for this, but I’m not sure where to place them. There’s an ongoing issue, now spanning over two article’s, where an (highly experienced) editor is repeatedly removing valid edits on one person’s article. They’re also questioning the relevance the subject’s daughter’s article. Both of these women are BBC TV personalities, with one recently deceased - making the deletions especially impactful for new readers. On my talk page, this editor is stating that my edits aren’t constructive and suggesting that I read up on Wikipedia guidelines before continuing to edit. I replied to him on my talk page, when he didn’t respond I responded to him on his talk page. I am now addressing him on both article pages. One only a few minutes ago, but another last night when he was clearly active. Apologies for the lengthy message, but I’m unsure where else to turn, aside from the “Help” section here, where responses tend to be quick. Elinoria (talk) 09:57, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I forgot to mention that an anonymous editor came back and replaced my edits, but the initial editor keeps deleting them, and they are in an edit war. I am not the anonymous editor. Elinoria (talk) 10:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia works by discussion, achieving consensus, not by some "authority" (admins or anybody else) wading in and ruling.

The steps to follow are laid out in dispute resolution.

If you believe that an editor or editors are behaving contrary to Wikipedia's policies, then you can take it to ANI - but note that 1) this is for behavioural issues: ANI will not get involved in content disputes; and 2) your behaviour will be considered as well as theirs. Please read the material at the top of WP:ANI before deciding to post there. ColinFine (talk) 10:34, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Edit filter triggered

Why i am getting this error.

Your edit has triggered an automated filter and has been disallowed. It looks like you're trying to add an email address to this page. Doing that, especially with a personal email address, is usually a bad idea as it can attract large amounts of spam. Though there are a few legitimate reasons to include an email address, in most cases Wikipedia will remove email addresses that are added to articles or discussion pages.

Help me to solve this Mohammedarif255 (talk) 11:45, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Mohammedarif255: I have reviewed the content that you want to add in the log (for EFH/EFM/admins: Special:AbuseLog/39163908), the message you have received is correct. There is nothing for us to resolve. And don't add the rest of content as well, Wikipedia is not here to promote your business or yourself. If you add the content even after this warning/advice (however you may want to take it), the content may be deleted without further warning. – robertsky (talk) 12:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 October 31#I am trying to add this page to Wikipedia but getting an error. Are you User:Saifurrahmanprof or cooperating with him? You tried to add the same text and asked the same question. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:54, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

How judicious should we be when we choose which articles to write for Wikipedia?

Hi all. I joined Wikipedia recently because I was interested in writing articles about arthropods in Asia. I've written a few already, including ones on Matrona cyanoptera, Cosmodela batesi, and Forcipomyia taiwana. I was telling my brother about how I'd added articles for these species, and he warned me that I shouldn't write about things Wikipedia labels as "low importance," as these articles needlessly take up space and cost Wikipedia money.

I've been reluctant to write any new articles since then. I want to ask, is he right that I should avoid writing "low importance" articles? If so, is there a way of knowing which topics are more important? Nephila121 (talk) 11:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

There's no rule against writing articles of "low importance" on Wikipedia, as long as they can pass notability guidelines. Your contributions are still appreciated regardless of the importance of the articles. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 12:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much, both for your kind words and the linked notability guidelines! Those are very helpful. Nephila121 (talk) 12:14, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Nephila121 Welcome to Wikipedia! Well, Wikipedia:WikiProject Arthropods welcomes like-minded editors like you. Your brother is right about one thing, articles take up space and cost money, but nothing has stop other editors thus far to write 14,731 (and counting) low-importance articles about arthropods, neither should you be dissuaded.

If you like to focus on more important articles, there are a number of existing arthropods-related articles that may require further improvements which you can click through at Wikipedia:WikiProject Arthropods#Assessment statistics. Focus your attention on the articles that are of stub-, start-, C-class quality and of mid- and high-importance. – robertsky (talk) 12:11, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Awesome, thank you! I'll definitely take a gander to see if I can contribute to any of the mid to high importance articles (though I'm also happy to keep writing low-importance articles so long as they're welcome here)! Nephila121 (talk) 12:19, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Nephila121, you never know when one of those low-importance articles is going to be incredibly important to a reader! Please keep writing whatever articles you enjoy writing, or editing ones that already exist if you feel like doing that - any contributions that help build the encyclopedia are always welcome, and the space/money cost is absolutely negligible. We'd love to be able to cover every possible notable topic, and it might be that no one else wants to write about those arthropods - so if you do want to, then we need you to keep writing! StartGrammarTime (talk) 03:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure there is a de facto rule that any biological species, extant or extinct, gets to have an article if somebody wants to make it. A lot of these are one sentence with one ref, and maybe many were imported en masse from a database (I don't know), but I've never seen anyone try to delete one, and it would probably turn into a big fight if anyone tried and would probably fail. I believe that populated places with even 1 resident get the same courtesy. (IIRC there was a proposal to adopt this as an actual rule, but it failed, but that didn't change anything.) Herostratus (talk) 04:23, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Mobile version

Hello,

On the pages Fort de Brégançon and United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces, when seen on the mobile version, the infobox comes up above the first introduction paragraph. Could someone take a look? Many thanks!

86.247.154.109 (talk) 13:27, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Both of these articles used Template:Coord, with |display=title. According to Template:Coord/doc, When this template is used with display=title, the template is not displayed on mobile. So what was happening is that the mobile frontend was reading the first displayed information in the articles (the coordinates), then choosing not to display it. I've moved the coordinates to the infoboxes in both articles, and the first paragraph of the lead section now appears at the top on mobile. Folly Mox (talk) 13:45, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

For clarity / accountability / yall's information, when I changed the transclusion of {{coord}} to |display=inline (my first attempt), the articles displayed as: bare coordinates, infobox, first paragraph. Hence the decision to move the template inside the infobox. Folly Mox (talk) 13:59, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Multnomah tribe/people

It was NOT malaria that killed off the native peoples in the Great NW. It was most likely measles, smallpox or syphilis. The Multnomah area is above the 45 parallel North. Malaria is a disease of tropical and temperate countries between the latitudinal limits of 64° North and 57° South (Gill, 1921) with prevalence increasing towards the equator.

I'm busy

Someone please fix this. Keepupthe (talk) 14:23, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Direct this to Talk:Multnomah people. Departure– (talk) 14:44, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Note that the claim of Malaria is cited to source which I would have thought counted as reliable - though it doesn't cite its own sources, so possibly not. In order to challenge it you will need a source at least as reliable that says something different - and your argument above amounts to synthesis, which is not acceptable in a Wikipedia article. But please do bring this up on the talk page as Departure suggests, and you may find other editors who will work with you on the matter. ColinFine (talk) 16:00, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

reuse of information

Can I use wikipedia's information in a local community publication or do I need a license to do so? It is a publication and I have stated in the front of the booklet that all factual information is taken from Wikipedia. We are a printing company and I am just creating a publication for the community and have used the history from wikipedia about the different cities/villages. Thank you! 66.227.157.221 (talk) 14:36, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Most text on Wikipedia is under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 license. Read the terms there. Images uploaded to Commons are typically under free or public domain licenses, but images hosted on Wikipedia may be subject to non-free guidelines. Copyright on images should be made on a case-by-case basis. Also, please note the VNT policy, which states that information cited to Wikipedia only needs to be verifiable, not necessarily true, and that WP:Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Departure– (talk) 14:43, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Also see Reusing Wikipedia content. ColinFine (talk) 15:56, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

License

Do I need a license to use information from Wikipedia? I am creating a publication for our community and am just using the historical information from certain cities/villages in our county. I have noted in the front cover of the booklet that Wikipedia is being used for all factual information, but I want to be sure that I do this right. Thanks.

Debbie Jet Speed Printing (talk) 14:41, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

See the thread above. Departure– (talk) 14:43, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Wildly wrong fact, no idea whether to remove or what

On War_reserve_constable there's a statement that three War Reserve Constables (WRCs) were killed in the line of duty, and then the three are listed. But just for the Metropolitan Police alone by my count there's about 44 'deaths from enemy action' (they also list a few others, and the page doesn't just have WRCs) - although not always clear if they were on or off duty at the time (the one I was looking up when I spotted researching this issue Arthur William Gurr Thorburn was on duty guarding a bomb site). For certain I don't have the time to list all even from just this one force ... really uncertain how such a wildly wrong fact should be handled, doesn't seem fair to take down names from the article of the three listed ... also noting the Metropolitan Police WRC listed is NOT one of the 'deaths from enemy action' but most definitely was on duty (stabbed by a suspect). Rhillman (talk) 15:26, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Rhillman That section of the article doesn't cite any sources, so you could tag it with {{Unreferenced section}} in the hope someone will improve it. Meanwhile you should certainly express your concern on the article's Talk Page at Talk:War reserve constable. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:43, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

After posting at the article talk you could post links to the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law Enforcement. TSventon (talk) 15:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, have done both - hopefully correctly! Rhillman (talk) 18:07, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

That looks good, the talk page only got one pageview in the last 30 days so hopefully the additional links get more attention. TSventon (talk) 18:55, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Rhillman, do you have a source? UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 18:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@UnsungHistory, I suggest that you read Talk:War reserve constable#Deaths 'in the line of duty' and reply there. TSventon (talk) 18:53, 7 November 2024 (UTC)