Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 January 28

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January 28

languge, Monomatapa kings

what is the languge group of the Monomatapa kings who constructed the Great Zimbabwe complex Angelstash (talk) 00:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

"Archaeologists generally agree that the builders probably spoke one of the Shona languages, and so were members of the Bantu family. Some have postulated that Zimbabwe was the work of the Gokomere people, who gave rise to both the Warozwi people, and the Mashona people." - the article on Great Zimbabwe. --130.237.179.182 (talk) 02:22, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

How did influenza become "the 'flu"?

It was a toss-up to ask this here or on the science desk. Influenza is a respiratory illness caused by a virus and is one of the great sources of mortality in people. And yet for most people, the term "flu" is used to refer to illnesses causing tummy trouble (nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, etc), which are actually caused by unrelated viruses, bacteria, and other goodies. There's no such thing as "stomach flu", so where did the confusion come in? Okay, "gastroenteritis" is a bit of a mouthful (ahem), but why refer to the condition using a well-defined (and incorrect) name? How did the mix-up occur? Our article says that kids that get Influenza B can experience stomach trouble - is that where this all comes from? Matt Deres (talk) 13:37, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Where have you encountered this usage? I've never heard 'flu' used to mean anything other than influenza or, at a stretch, a bad cold. Algebraist 13:41, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

"If you sit near to a cold fireplace, with the flue open, you may get the flu." :-) StuRat (talk) 16:22, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I suppose calling gastroenteritis "the gas" would be ambiguous too, possibly in an even worse way. Algebraist, I've certainly heard it called "stomach flu" though maybe not "the flu" unmodified; although when someone tells me they have "the flu" I usually just commiserate and stay away from them, rather than delving to find out whether they have an actual influenza caused by an Orthomyxoviridae virus or whether they have gastroenteritis. —Angr 13:45, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

The term gastric flu is common in Britain, in my experience. The shivers, a raised temperature and cramps are symptoms of both real flu (not the "take a Lemsip and struggle back to work" kind, which is just a cold) and gastroenteritis, so it seems a reasonable vernacular name. DuncanHill (talk) 13:48, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

See also Man flu. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 15:14, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

@Algebraist - I live in southern Ontario and, until the recent increase in education in anticipation of the avian flu pandemic, have heard the words "flu" and "stomach flu" almost exclusively used to describe any kind of tummy trouble. Conditions caused by food-poisoning or foodborne illnesses are almost always thought of as the flu and the flu is almost always considered to be those conditions and no other. I had a hell of a time convincing my mother that getting the barfs is not the same as getting the flu. Matt Deres (talk) 16:23, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

In Australia, when someone says "I've got the flu", they usually mean "I have a bad cold", which does not imply any kind of stomach upset, but maybe loss of appetite. But if they say "I have influenza", they actually mean "I have influenza", a much rarer condition with very different symptoms. This doesn't answer your question about how the term "flu" came to be used for something unrelated to influenza. By the way, I have it on good authority that the name influenza came from "She opened the window and influenza".  :) -- JackofOz (talk) 20:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

And I have it from good authority that the full version is

    I had a little bird
    Its name was Enza
    I opened the window
    And in-flu-enza.

--NorwegianBlue ^talk 21:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I remember Alistair Cooke on Letter from America saying "the flu" was anglophone doctors' code for "something trivial I can't be bothered to diagnose in detail", whereas French doctors instead say "liver trouble". jnestorius^(talk) 22:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

On reflection, it was "a virus" rather than "the flu". Still, the gap is perhaps bridgeable in the popular mind. jnestorius^(talk) 23:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

"a virus is what we doctors call very, very small. So small, it could not possibly have made off with a whole leg"DuncanHill (talk) 02:22, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I remember that too. German doctors would say it's your "circulation". —Angr 23:48, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm also in Ontario. For some time now the government has campaigned for widespread annual immunization against the current year's strain of influenza. (They advocate that everyone in high-risk groups should be immunized, and also many people not in high-risk groups, to cut the spread of the disease.) In their ad campaigns they use the term "flu shot", but they also point out that the real "flu" that this immunization is against is a significantly more serious disease than the mild ones that people commonly speak of as "flu".

I think what's going on is a psychological point: people who get sick expect to have a name for their illness, if only so they can say "I missed two days of work because I had ____." But a mild illness does not warrant the kind of expensive testing that would reveal the precise pathogen involved. So people want a catchall term, and things like this imprecise usage of "the flu" get established. (I refuse to go along, just saying "I was sick", and if someone asks "What did you have?" I say "How would I know?" -- but I know I'm being eccentric to insist on precision here.) --Anonymous, 22:30 UTC, January 28, 2009.

I'm in Ontario too and despite the widespread annual immunization I don't think people really understand what the shot is for. I think for me, and my family, "the flu" is simply a cold that you get in the winter, but in a joking sort of way, since we know it is obviously not the real flu. (And what is "a cold", really? It's just as vague as "the flu.") Adam Bishop (talk) 08:54, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Exactly the same confusion occurs in French, where a mere cold is called "la grippe". And gastrenteritis is similarly miscalled "grippe intestinale". Rhinoracer (talk) 13:28, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

In Michigan, I would call my condition "the flu" if it's worse than "a cold" (runny nose, sore throat, coughing), by including vomiting and diarrhea. It must last for several days, though, or I would suspect that it's just "food poisoning". StuRat (talk) 13:40, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

However, if you really had influenza, you'd be completely out of it for at least a week, and would feel a lot worse than the worst cold you've ever had in your life. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:00, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

A week seems typical, but surely some strains are less severe than others, and some people may also have a partial resistance to some strains. StuRat (talk) 01:16, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Maybe. My only point was that what we generally refer to as "the flu" is a completely different medical condition than influenza, even if mild forms of influenza can appear to have similar symptoms to those of a severe cold. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:49, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

How are these Portuguese names pronounced?

1. Fernando Pessoa
2. Alberto Caeiro
3. Ricardo Reis
4. Álvaro de Campos
5. Bernardo Soares

59.91.253.183 (talk) 17:35, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Our article Fernando Pessoa gives the pronunciation [fɨɾˈnɐ̃du pɨˈsoɐ]. There's nothing for the heteronyms there though. Algebraist 17:47, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Here are my best guesses for the others:

• [aɫˈbɛɾtu̥ kaˈeiɾu̥]
• [ʁiˈkaɾdu̥ ʁeiʃ]
• [ˈaɫvaɾu̥ di ˈkɐ̃pu̥ʃ]
• [bɛɾˈnaɾdu̥ ˈsu̯aɾiʃ]

Of course, Portuguese has many dialects. I tried to follow the indications at Portuguese phonology for Lisbon pronunciation. —Angr 21:28, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Is there a good English language lemmatizer, online, that can handle entire wordlists?

Basically, except for one thing, I'm looking for a website just like this one:

http://mail.cst.dk/tools/index.php#output

The problem with the website above (for my use) is that it won't handle much text. I am looking for an online lemmatizer that can handle very long word lists (say, 10,000 words). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.100.23.115 (talk) 23:59, 28 January 2009 (UTC)