Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 April 9

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April 9

Any French ornithologists in the house?

I am translating a French Wikipedia FAC on a bird species. I could use some help with this passage: En plumage usé, les parties inférieures sont plus inégales et plus claires. I've looked at Plumage, and fr:Plume but I am not sure what plumage usé refers to. Maybe basic plumage; maybe nuptial plumage?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:49, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm no linguist, but surely plumage usé just means "worn plumage", rather than referring to any particular tract? Older feathers are often distinguishable from newer replacements Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:01, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Ah, I actually discounted that the direct translation was what was meant (and my ear was incorrectly picking up worn as in simply clothed in), in ignorance of bird terminology and thinking it was probably some term of art, but I see now that "worn plumage" is a term of art, used in many bird publications to refer to older plumage. Much obliged.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:21, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Surname "Iwi"

In preparation for an article, I'm doing some research into Edward Frank Iwi, who is remembered in British constitutional circles for having the gift, as an amateur expert, of often knowing more than those who were supposed and paid to be in the know. Here is a brief biography of him.

One thing I obviously want to nail down immediately is the origin of his most unusual surname. Search iwi and you'll get hits to do with New Zealand Maori or other Polynesian cultures. But my friend was born in London and educated in Wales. Is it possible he had Polynesian antecedents? The source above is concerned with Anglo-Jewish affairs, so is this perhaps a Hebrew name? Or is it Welsh, maybe? I'm just clutching at straws here. Thanks. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 09:47, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I was once in e-mail contact with a British computer scientist named Alan Iwi, who told me it was a Jewish name originating in Iwye, Belarus. Angr (talk) 10:42, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

For reference you could contact the Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain (JGSGB). They have a family trees library, and Iwi is in their collection (reference number A72 on this pdf index). ---Sluzzelin talk 14:09, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Those are both excellent answers, thanks folks. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:41, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

First time around I missed the link to an Excel spreadsheet with more info on the various trees. Now I uploaded the file, but all it gave me was:

Tree ref	Main surname(s)	Period	Places	Notes
A72	WARTSKI	no dates	Wales, South Africa	few places matched to people

Wartski was the name of Iwi's stepfather (and of his mother after she married Morris Wartski) if I correctly understand The Palgrave Dictionary of Anglo-Jewish History's entry on Iwi you linked. I guess you really would need to contact the JGSGB to get more info. I also found a tiny bit under Iwi: The Saga Continues at RootsWeb, fwiw. ---Sluzzelin talk 20:06, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you again, Sluzzelin. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:24, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Nation foundation

"the purpose of the nation was to keep the certain green-belt areas free of buildings." How could I improve that sentence? MicronationKing (talk) 13:53, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I would drop the word the so that the phrase reads "... to keep certain green-belt areas ..." The rest of the phrase looks fine. — SMUconlaw (talk) 14:01, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Lacking context, I can't be at all sure of this comment. However, the phrase "THE purpose of the nation" implies to me that the nation only had ONE purpose. This seems unlikely. Wanderer57 (talk) 19:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I thought that too until I saw the OP's username. He's bound to be talking about a micronation, not a real nation. Angr (talk) 19:09, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Given the header, it seems he meant (national) foundation. μηδείς (talk) 00:54, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the foundation of a micronation with the sole aim of preserving a green belt area. Alansplodge (talk) 19:38, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Chinese character request

What are the actual Chinese characters to the pinyin transliteration Ming Ming La? 140.254.227.101 (talk) 20:17, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

It is possible that the Ming Ming part may refer to Ming Ming, in which case the characters are printed. The La may refer to 了, which is a modal particle intensifying preceding clause or a completed action marker. 140.254.227.101 (talk) 20:38, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

What's the context? Where did you see that? Chinese has a LOT of homophones, even when tones are taken into account, and you never indicated the tone of the pinyin. --Bowlhover (talk) 23:31, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

If the question is regarding User:Mingmingla, this link shows that the name is a nonsense imitation of Chinese, and hence does not have a single "accurate" representation in Chinese characters. There are several ways it could be rendered phonetically in Chinese. Marco polo (talk) 14:55, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

If this is about me, cool. Marco Polo is correct, it is meaningless. That means that, because of Chinese being a tonal language and me being a native English speaker, there is no proper Chinese characters. If anyone can find any that translate to something cool, though, I'd like to see it. Mingmingla (talk) 02:49, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Messing around for a minute with google translate, I got "Mìngmíng lā"- 命名拉 - "named pull." I'm sure I have no idea what any of it means, but it does seem to sort of fit the idea of you pulling your name out of hat of pseudo-Chinese gibberish! SemanticMantis (talk) 16:56, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Actually, I think a better transliteration, if you don't mind it being a bit silly, would be 命名啦 (mìngmíngla). 命名 means "to name (someone)", while 啦 is a particle indicating either surprise/excitement or merging 了 and 啊, indicating completed action and a sense of exclamation. In effect, the three characters mean something like "Named!" or "He/she/it's been named!" A more "serious", remotely plausible name with that pinyin might be 明明腊 （Míng Mínglà), combining the surname 明 with 明腊, meaning "bright twelfth lunar month". Marco polo (talk) 01:36, 13 April 2014 (UTC)