Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 April 11

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April 11

What car is this?

Lamborghini Model 224Z 67.71.93.247 00:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

It is a 2006 or 2007 model Saab 9-3. [1] FiggyBee 00:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Who was Willy on Wheels?

Who was "Willy on WHEELS!!!"? Obviously a vandal, a sockpuppeteer, and a major damage to Wikipedia. But, what did he DO with the sockpuppets? Move pages to "________ ON WHEELS!!!" or something like that, right? Could somebody give me one or more links to an old version of a page he vandalized, please? 71.220.204.53 01:49, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The issue with finding information on Willy is WP:DENY - AMP'd 02:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

See also Nikolai Yezhov? − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 02:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

He mostly moved pages, but this was his most successful act of vandalism. Skarioffszky 12:27, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

24 numbers

Can someone give me a link to a site with pictures of the 24 (show) numbers? You know, those clock numbers that always tick away at the start, between commercials, and at the end. Either that or how can I make them myself. --The Dark Side 02:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Aren't the numbers used in 24 (TV series) just standard digital clock LED numbers like these: [2]. StuRat 03:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

There's this font, named quartz, that looks like 7 segment LED numbers, and is included in Office (I think). --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:19, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

• There's a 24 wiki over at Wikia. - Mgm|^(talk) 11:01, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Shares in S-Corp

I (with a co-owner) have created an S-Corp business, each with 100 shares. We are confused when it comes to the shares. We find the blank certificates at most office supplies but are unsure how to complete them. Does one certificate count a one (1) share or can it be made ten (10) shares? Any help will be greatly appreciated. 75.24.219.60 03:51, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I would recommend contacting a local lawyer who deals with business incorporation on this one. The Reference Desk doesn't provide legal advice, for many reasons -- including that the laws governing corporations vary from state to state. Particularly for something as fundamental as starting a business, you want to make sure your foundations are in good shape -- if your business is successful (or is sued), saving a few bucks on a lawyer now could cost you far more in the future if your legal status isn't what you expect it to be. As an aside, one thing you may want to consider with your partner -- and your new lawyer -- is to issue 201 shares; 100 to each of you and a single share to a trusted third party who you can go to if the two of you have a dispute, since it's hard to do much with a 100-100 tie. --ByeByeBaby 05:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

You can have one certificate be worth any number of shares. Otherwise, people with millions of shares of stocks would have to add a new wing to store them all. My favorite form of stock certificate has to be the ones on toilet paper rolls issued by an Internet startup company on The Simpsons, as this form still retains some marginal utility in the case of bankruptcy and total divestiture. :-) StuRat 18:50, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

MLB ticket Shipping

for anyone who has ordered MLB tickets at MLB websites and chose to have them delievered by mail what was the class of mail that was used.--logger 06:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

For the non-North Americans in the audience, I presume that logger is asking about Major League Baseball tickets and not Mother Love Bone tickets. Dismas|^(talk) 06:21, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

it is indeed major league baseball tickets never knew any other initials for it.--logger 06:27, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

MLB stands for a couple things. See MLB (disambiguation). Additionally, we have no idea where you are in the world so MLB may very well have some local meaning to someone which would not help you. Americans often post questions here that are vague in this way such as asking, for example, "What is the President's middle name?" The questioner is assuming that everyone will just know that they mean the President of the United States but someone else may have to ask "President of what?" Dismas|^(talk) 07:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

It might be more polite to answer the question than it would be to lecture the questioner. Having said that, I just ordered some San Francisco Giants tickets by mail, but I am sorry to report that I threw away the mailing envelope and have no idea what class they were mailed as. Sorry. Corvus cornix 21:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Unintentional circumvention of DRM under DMCA?

Hi I'm not asking legal advice or anything, just some clarification of the DMCA. It made circumvention of DRM illegal, but what if the DRM itself is easily circumvented and we do it unknowingly? For example the Sony XCP software only work on Windows, so does that make using a Mac or Linux illegal because it circumvents the DRM? --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:31, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know anything about the DMCA other than what is in our article, but you'd have to be more specific about the precise nature of the circumvention under non-Windows OSs. I'd be very surprised indeed if whoever drafted the legislation hadn't taken this possibility into account. Are you sure that it's really that straightforward to bypass DRM on a Mac? By the way, you might get a better answer over at the computing ref desk. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

As far as I understand it, playing a Sony CD on a Mac or Linux machine is not illegal. Sony simply made the software for Windows because it's the most prevalent OS out there. Dismas|^(talk) 09:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The software (AFAIK) only works on Windows which means on Mac OS X or in Linux (or in any other OS) it's just an ordinary CD with a data session that does nothing. Basically I'm asking if you closed the front door but left the back door open, does walking in constitutes as illegal, in the sense of DMCA and DRM? --antilived^{T | C | G} 11:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

They didn't intend to prevent you from playing the CD - if that's all you intend to do then fine - that's what you bought it for - there was no "You may not play this CD under Linux or MacOS" on the label - so you have a reasonable expectation that you should be allowed to do that. When it comes to 'ripping' the CD so you can put it on your MP3 player or make a backup copy or whatever, then they clearly went to some effort to prevent you from doing that under Windows (although it's trivial to circumvent it using a simple magic marker - to do so would be a DMCA violation). However, they chose not to prevent you from doing that under MacOS or Linux. Why? Well that's not for us to say. Perhaps they trust Linux users - we're nice people! More likely, for one thing it's difficult - if not impossible - to do this on an operating system that doesn't blindly execute whatever binaries happen to be on an unknown disk that gets shoved into the drive. For another, Linux and MacOS users are a negligable fraction of SONY's customers - so perhaps they simply didn't think it worth the effort. In my view (and I'm not a lawyer and Wikipedia cannot offer legal advice anyway) you aren't circumventing any copy protection because there isn't any copy protection there in the first place. You aren't actively bypassing anything - you are just using the CD in a 'normal' manner. Of course this doesn't let you off the non-DMCA copyright restrictions on the CD - that's an entirely different matter. SteveBaker 14:30, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Detuned Engines

I've been reading up on cars lately, and I've come across the term detuned engine a few times. What is a detuned engine, and can it be re-tuned, as the name implies? --Daniel Olsen 06:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Detuning means the engine has a limiter (either mechanical or electronic) which prevents it putting out as much power as it otherwise could. This is done for a variety of reasons. On large engines (ships, railway locomotives) it's mainly done to increase reliability and engine life, and the usual word used is derating. In cars, it's done by the manufacturer to make the engine meet certain emission standards, speed limits, tax classes or other legal requirements. FiggyBee 08:08, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with PiggyBee to a point - but any engine that's been set up differently from the manufacturers settings could be described as being de-tuned - so it's often possible to detune an engine and make it produce more power than it did before - but at the cost of much worse fuel economy or failure to meet emissions standards or a shorter engine life. Precisely how one detunes in order to achieve a particular outcome depends on the engine and the outcome you want to achieve. My MINI Cooper'S has a smaller supercharger pulley (to make the supercharger cram more air into the motor), a bigger air filter and a spacer in the throttle body so it can deliver more gasoline to the engine. The resulting 'detuned' engine (although I'd describe it more as 'race tuned') produces 15% more horsepower than the engine was intended to produce - and it consumes about 10% more fuel than it originally did out of the factory. But some cars (especially older ones) can be detuned with simple adjustments to the air/fuel mixture on the carburettor - and can become gradually less well 'in-tune' over time as parts wear out or get covered in gunk. Hence, taking an older car to a garage for a 'tune up' every couple of years is a good idea. SteveBaker 12:53, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

If it's altered to produce more power than spec, that's usually called tuning, not detuning. FiggyBee 21:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree with that. De-tuning the car from it's factory setting is what you are doing. The problem is that you can tune the engine for low end torque or for high end horsepower or for economy or any of a dozen other parameters. Improving one aspect of "performance" will almost always make something else worse - so it's as valid to say that you are taking the car out of 'tune' to make it go faster. In autocross, most people talk about using 'detuned' engines as a generally desirable thing. This might be something that's different in some English dialects though - so FiggyBee may also be correct. SteveBaker 00:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay, it is possible that it's a dialect thing, or just different use of terms in different circles. :) But I've never heard "detuning" used for end-user modifications, only for factory settings. FiggyBee 06:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

In Britain, "detuned" would infer a reduction in one or more characteristics; most commonly torque, peak power, powerband, torque-curve, power loss, response or rev limit. As opposed to the mostly positive outcome from tuning. Motorcycle engines are often detuned when used in more middle-of-the-road models, whereby that method of reducing peak power/revs/whatever is more economical than producing a new engine design. Adrian M. H. 19:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

What would......

What would happen if a NUKE was set off in the Bermuda Triangle, other 11 areas of the planet ? Just read the related articles. 65.163.113.145 07:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

What 11 other areas? What related articles are you talking about? As for what would happen if you set off a nuclear bomb in the Bermuda triangle, depending on the yield of the device used, many lifeforms would die, land and water would be subjected to radiation, etc. Dismas|^(talk) 07:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

It would disappear and go wherever all the other missing stuff went, and the world would end up in a nuclear winter caused by a high-altitude cloud cover made up of of tiny pieces of airplane, numerous non-functioning pens, thousands of sets of keys, and the charred remains of countless single socks. Anchoress 09:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

One nuclear bomb wouldn't cause nuclear winter. Even the largest nuclear bomb ever exploded, the 50-megaton Tsar Bomba, didn't alter the global climate. It would take a widespread nuclear war to get nuclear winter. -- Mwalcoff 22:52, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Its rumored that this place is some kind of dimensional gate or wormhole. Would a nuke blow it open ? 65.163.113.145 01:50, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Huh? The Bermuda Triangle? The incidence of ships sinking and such in the area is apparently no higher than is normal for the oceans. Most of it is just nonsense from people who want to make a buck off a book or television documentary. There's certainly no evidence that it's a "dimensional gate". -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 01:53, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I think you missed the funny :P -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 01:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

It's absolutely true that one nuclear bomb wouldn't cause a nuclear winter. However, I believe that a nuclear bomb which vaporised every single object that ever disappeared under mysterious circumstances would. ;-) Anchoress 10:48, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Since we don't have any hard evidence of the existence of a dimensional gate, it's impossible to speculate with any degree of accuracy as to what would happen if one were to explode a nuclear weapon in such a gate. Dismas|^(talk) 02:12, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

The Bermuda Triangle is considered by some to be one of twelve Vile Vortices around the world. Depending on the explanation you feel best applies to it, I'd say a nuclear device would do anything between disappear (through several mundane things) to blow up the universe. V-Man - ^T/_C 03:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Rats!!!

Yo, I was wondering if anyone has any advice on something especially enticing to bait rat traps with (besides cheese...)? I have been using peanut butter which netted me one rat but it no longer seems to be attracting them, though they are certainly still around as evidenced by the droppings in my basement. I do not want to poison them because they navigate using crawl spaces in the basement and hidden but decomposing rats is not a pleasant thought. I also had previously tried the sonic things to no avail. If this helps, I believe they are Black Rats and not Brown Rats. The article says they like grain, so maybe Chinese wheat gluten? Difficulty: My present financial situation rules out hiring an exterminator and there is no known food source that they could be accessing in my basement...Thanks in advance ~~RatMan —38.112.225.84 (talk) 08:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

Peanut butter should work just fine, wheat grain is traditional. However, you have stumbled across the fact that rats are highly intelligent and they probably saw, or more likely smelled, their friend in the trap. (I believe they release fear pheromones.) Try cleaning it very thoroughly and maybe disguise it or cover it.--Shantavira 08:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I will definitely try doing that, I kind of figured it somehow related to my previous killing of their comrade, but was unsure how best to regain their trust. A clarification if you could: When you say, "wheat grain is traditional" do you mean an actual stalk of grain from a field type of thing? Oh, and your response dredged up childhood memories of The Secret of NIMH, which in turn gave me a brief pang of regret for my rodenticidal plans. Thanks for the advice though, makes sense.-- 38.112.225.84 10:58, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Traps almost always cease to work after the first catch. After you wash it, bait it and leave it unset for a day or 2, then set it. I've always found it a losing game, so I go for a massive chemical attack (the powerful single feeding stuff). --Zeizmic 11:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Interesting, so just to be clear, are you saying that "Traps" in general usually cease to work after the first catch, or rather the specific trap which made the kill?--38.112.225.84 11:50, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe the reference was to individual (the specific samples of) traps. For mice, we had good luck with disposable "glue traps" (boxes with inescapable glue on the bottom), but I found them altogether too cruel and stopped using them. We then switched to little "tipping" traps that trapped the mice alive (for release in fields far from our (or others) houses); these could be washed after use and re-set. I now atone for my sins against the mice by keeping Gerbils.

Atlant 12:52, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree on the cruelty of the glue traps. I saw a mouse that ripped off half of it's face trying to escape, not a pretty sight. But perhaps I'm more sensitive to that type of thing, being a fellow rodent myself. :-) StuRat

Rats! And I thought you'd squeak by this question, although I was a bit curious about how you'd respond to such a sensitive topic. V-Man - ^T/_C 09:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I do occasionally like to sink my teeth into rodent questions, even cheesy ones (and all the trouble that entails), although I often feel like I've Ben running in circles and not getting anywhere and am sometimes accused of being narrow-minded. StuRat 17:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Good lookin' out on the help folks :) Much obliged.-- 38.112.225.84 10:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I have had this problem before. The things I use to use was anything sweet. Bits of marshmallow stick to the trap and catch quite a few. i use to use peanut buttwer to but the sweeter it is the easier it is for their nose to pick up. Plus it does not smell bad like cheese can so you can leave the traps out for a while.--Kittycat rox 17:56, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

New Home Page

I just wanted to know what happened to the homepage? And is there a way to use the old wikipedia?

thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Omsapo (talk • contribs) 11:27, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

Can you clarify what you mean by "old wikipedia"? --antilived^{T | C | G} 11:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Nothing much of huge significance has changed in the organisation of the front page for years - so I deduce that you must be coming into Wikipedia via a different URL than you used to. For example, if you go to http://www.wikipedia.org you'll get the international front page where you see all of the different languages that Wikipedia is published in and you can choose any of them easily - but if you go to http://en.wikipedia.org then you arrive at the English language front page (which is a lot more useful if you are an English speaker). But there are lots of other ways to choose a Wikipedia front page. If (for example) you had a passion for cars - then you could put http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Cars into you browser's "favorite list" and you'd arrive at a front page which has featured articles, featured pictures, did-you-know and on-this-day just like the English language front page - except all of the articles, news, facts and photos are about cars. There are lots of these so-called 'Portals' into Wikipedia for special interest groups - and you can find all of the English language ones here: Portal:List of portals. SteveBaker 12:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I think he is referring to the fact that we recently (well, last year) redesigned the main page. If you wish to use the old main page instead, bookmark this page instead of the standard wikipedia front page. --Oskar 22:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

paula abdul

am new to wikipedia.inform the guy who wanted th quoted for the jewish celebrity on sumthin about gals n mday nite football the answer is paula abdul.use yahoo search engine.google isnt helping 1.anyone knows which celebrity made this quote'who are with us in spirit,always'.its a balck american i think 2.what is the target amount being reached by wikipedia donations. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.49.74.216 (talk) 13:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

1. Probably a lot of people have said that phrase at some point or another. It is pretty common to refer to a loved one who has died as "with us in spirit".

2. The Wikimedia Fundraising FAQ says that their "official fundraising drive" is over (so presumably they have no specific target now) but they are still accepting donations.

--Mathew5000 09:38, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

right catrgory for requesting an article

I want to request an article on "barley pillows for ponds" but have no idea what category to put this request into. Can you help? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rsearch (talk • contribs) 13:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

I think you are referring to one specific product made by a specific company; it might not be notable enough for its own article in Wikipedia. However, perhaps the issue of treatment processes for ponds should go in the pond article. --Mathew5000 09:32, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Why the message Page Not Found pops up

Why is it that every time I look up something I get the message "Page Not Found"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.18.90.97 (talk • contribs)

Spelling or capitalization could be the problem, please provide an example. ~ hydnjo talk  15:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Why a page loads up and then shuts down

I looked up the Capitulos(Episodes) section of a telenovela called Lola, Erase una Vez(Lola, Once Upon a Time) and all I got was a message that said "We're sorry. We couldn't get the page that you are looking for" in Spanish. Could somebody please tell me what is behind all this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.18.90.97 (talk) 14:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

You were probably making the search inadvertently in the Spanish Wikipedia at http://es.wikipedia.org. --Nitku 21:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Good Burger 2

<Moved to Entertainment Reference Desk.> Marco polo 17:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Dividend schedule

Is there a master dividend schedule listing for all of the stocks on the NYSE, NASDAQ and AMEX? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.174.159.34 (talk) 17:14, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

about children's books

I am looking for comic books for age group of 6-7 years. I want to read the Indian books only.So, are there any possibility to get the books for free of cost?If there is a possibility, please give the complete addresses{only from India}----nature —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.160.62.8 (talk) 18:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

I would expect you would have better luck finding online comics for free than paper copies. Are online comics acceptable ? Also, what language(s) should they be in ? StuRat 18:24, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The IP said Indian. I'm guessing they want Indian comics?--$UIT 19:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, but there are a number of languages spoken in India... Carom 23:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

And they might also want to use the comics to teach their children another language. Considering that they are asking on the English Wikipedia, they might very well be looking for English language comics available in India or with Indian characters. There are books like the Mowgli series and Little Black Sambo which might be available in comic form, for example, although they aren't very PC. StuRat 03:37, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be better to try asking this question on one of the Wikipedia's for the language in question. Dunno whether they have reference-desks though. SteveBaker 23:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Adding a Lesson Plan example in a Lesson Plan article

I would like to add a lesson plan example to a lesson plan article but doing so may mess with the article and its table of contents

The article is Lesson plan and the example is at User:Sdudah/python, Sdudah 19:46, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The solution may lie in putting the whole thing in a table, and finding some way of changing the font size without using header markers. You might be best off asking this at Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance). --Tagishsimon (talk)

Maybe it's not my place to say so, but a look at the article shows it would be overwhelmed by that example. Moreover, I'd be concerned that if this is your own lesson plan, putting it in would go against Wikipedia policy. Perhaps an example of something as substantial as a lesson plan 1. should link to a published lesson plan, so it can pass the usual verifiability standards for all material, and 2. doesn't go in an article at all, but on a separate web page somewhere, that can be linked to from the article? Jfarber 01:25, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Car Engines

I was wondering when they test an engine for horsepower (the manufacturer), do they take in account the power lost to the alternator via the alternator belt? I'm asking because the new M3 engine is rated at 420HP but doesnt have an alternator belt because it uses regenerative braking instead. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.167.159.75 (talk) 20:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

Automotive alternators would only use a fraction of a horsepower, it won't make an appreciable difference. Vespine 23:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Sadly, there is no good standard - sometimes they quote the number at the wheels - sometimes at the crank - and which accessories are or are not included is rarely well specified. I would bet that the M3's number is 'at the crank' - which would not include the alternator belt on most cars...but it's hard to be sure. SteveBaker 23:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I understand that many rolling road dynos provide the power output at the crank by way of some calculation for the losses, precisely so that the figure is easily comparable to popularly quoted figures. I can imagine that many manufacturers would rather provide the higher figure (much like claimed weight figures that tend to exclude essential fluids). I wouldn't be surprised if they quote the best figure from a whole batch of tested engines as well. Adrian M. H. 19:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

General David Petraeus' height

How tall is General David Petraeus?151.201.47.211 22:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The Washington Post: At 5-foot-9 and 155 pounds, Petraeus evokes George Bernard Shaw's description of the British general Bernard L. Montgomery: "an intensely compacted hank of wire.".--Pharos 23:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Is it just me, or does it sound like they are saying "General, betray us", whenever they list his name ? StuRat 03:29, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Who, Benedict Arnold? Sounds right to me. V-Man - ^T/_C 09:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Dialouge

I'm writing a dialouge. Can anybody give me a suggestion of what to write about? I want it to be (very) funny and (very) sad at the same time. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.6.32.52 (talk) 23:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

Suggestions and reference are really opposite ends of the assistance spectrum, but you'll find many plot devices and speech types in wikipedia which might provide templates, including my favorite on Monologuing -- you know, where the villain has the hero tied up, but postpones a gruesome and painful death to boast about his prowess to the inevitably deus ex machina-ed hero. Other options from that plot devices list include eavesdropping (imagine a conversation between two people listening in on...), and the ever-wonderful quibble. Alternately, if you're looking for sample dialogue which often takes on both these qualities, I would suggest checking out the reference desk talk pages visiting Overheard in New York, and the associated "overheard" sites. Jfarber 01:10, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Try some of these results: "writing dialogue". Anchoress 01:27, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Mailing Tax Forms

Sorry if this violates the "no legal advice" rule.

I just finished filling out my tax forms (Federal - United States)and I'm trying to mail them in. I've Googled around and can't seem to find the address I'm supposed to send them to. This should be painfully obvious, but I can't figure it out.

Thanks in advance.Ubuntu Dude 00:05, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

At http://www.irs.gov, you can click on "Frequently Asked Questions", then "Where to File", then "Where to File Tax Returns - Addresses for Individual Taxpayers By State, U.S. Possession or Foreign Country", which will take you to this page where one more click gives you the correct answer for where you live. --Anonymous Canadian, April 12, 2007, 00:20 (UTC).

When I was checking mine, I found that the initial address line was hard to find -- it's Internal Revenue Service Center at city/state/zip. — Lomn 14:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)