March 22, 2006

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 19:02, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Currentpast (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
What is the point of this template? Talrias (t | e | c) 23:28, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's been 11 days and there has been a unanimous decision to delete! What's going on? Brian Jason Drake 03:34, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the debate was delete. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 00:28, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Categories · Glossaries · Lists · Overviews · Portals · Questions · Reference · Site news · A-Z Index

Arts | Biography | Culture | Geography | History | Mathematics | Philosophy | Science | Society | Technology

The template above shows up at the top of 355 categories; here are some examples: Category:Alternative education, Category:National trusts, Category:Wikipedia administration, Category:High-temperature superconductors, etc. I fail to see that template's relevance in those categories, and almost all of others. At most, I would think that template should have only the bottom row, and show up only in the categories actually listed there (10 of them). But even there it is not necessary I think, as those are grouped together in Category:Top 10 anyway. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 23:13, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the surest way of browsing things is to just go to the Main Page, the globe in the upper left corner of any Wikipedia page, rather than from such a template. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 23:22, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, It should be noted that this discussion began with the Template:Browsebar, and many of the arguments emcompass them both. (see Template_talk:Browsebar#Is_this_bar_useful?) --Quiddity
In Wikipedia:Browse one may use a subst'ed version I think. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 01:47, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well this template was created to eleviate confusion about the meaning of the subbar of {{browsebar}}. People thought that they would get Categories related to the subject, after they had clicked on "Categories" in the topbar. Perhaps the real problem here is {{browsebar}} ??? - The DJ 03:30, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. see my comment a few lines above. --Quiddity
  • Comment: So the problem is that it's used everywhere. Deleting it (as I understand it) doesn't automatically remove it all from all those pages. Why not just remove it from those pages, rather than deleting the template itself? Stevage 16:39, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Per policy, it should not be removed from pages until this deletion discussion is closed. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 19:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  •   ! Strong Keep - The essence of catbar is that it is a master menu to Wikipedia, and as such is its ultimate "look-up tool" and "browse aid". It was designed to assist newcomers and seasoned researchers alike immediate access to Wikipedia's overall structure, and assist them to most rapidly find whatever they are looking for, even if they don't quite know what that is. The bottom line of the bar represents the ten categories at the top of Wikipedia's category system, allowing the user to restart his search at any time at any of the main subject categories of Wikipedia. The top line represents all of the main directories of Wikipedia: its tables of contents and its indices. These are the places where users will most likely find anything they are trying to look up:
  1. Categories leads to an alternate top-end to Wikipedia's category system.
  2. Glossaries leads to all the mini-dictionaries within Wikipedia, in each of which the terms defined are live links to Wikipedia articles of the same name.
  3. Lists links to Wikipedia's master List of Lists, which includes the directly editable hierarchical tables of contents of Wikipedia, distinct from "categories" in that adding topics to these lists is a lot easier than adding an article to a category, and therefore they are better maintained, and with more levels viewable on any given page.
  4. Overviews is a browse page listing major topics, also known as "root" topics - almost every article in Wikipedia is linked through subtopics to the "overview articles" on that page.
  5. Portals is a master list of portals, which in turn provide an expose on major subject areas, and therefore provide another doorway to the various articles that make up each subject area within Wikipedia.
  6. Questions directs the user to all the places on Wikipedia where they can ask and get their questions answered, whether help-related, or relating to subject matter they are trying to learn.
  7. Reference leads to Wikipedia's version of an almanac, and is a huge list of the reference tables included throughout Wikipedia.
  8. Site news is a central location through which to find out what is going on with Wikipedia.
  9. Index is an alphabetical listing of all the articles on Wikipedia.

This array of Wikipedia's entry points is the most powerful and convenient tool to have on hand at any given moment, and that is why I have placed it on so many pages. It is the best tool to have available to begin a search when the search box has failed you. It, and its browsebar variations, were designed together to grace the top of every page within the directory systems they represent, to grant access to the top end of Wikipedia's overall directory system wherever the user happens to be along his or her current research path. Catbar is the categorical version of Browsebar, and so the subjects listed on its bottom line lead to categories rather than portals (as they do on the browsebar). Together, they are a familiar and convenient tool which many readers of Wikipedia have come to rely upon, myself included. The pages listed upon it need easy access granted to them, for they are the true front doors to the information contained within Wikipedia. Without this kind of access, the usability of Wikipedia will suffer, and the increase in the public's reliance upon Wikipedia as an information source will likely lag, as it did when the original category bar was temporarily removed years ago. This bar, by comparison, is far more useful. Please carefully consider each of the above points before making your decision. Thank you. Sincerely, --Go for it! 17:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The ultimate way of browsing Wikipedia is (and should be) the Main Page, which is always one click away. Either that, or Wikipedia:Community Portal is acessible from the "Navigation" bar on the left. There is no need for one more navigation tool. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 19:34, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"and that is why it is displayed on so many pages."
It is displayed on so many pages, because You have added around 300 of them since December. --Quiddity 21:14, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Those arguments are fine, and I've arguments why I want a special "My Watchlist" for Wikipedia and Meta everywhere. It's easy, I just added it near the top of my user page also on Meta, I didn't put it on each and every page annoying others with my personal preferences. Try the same with {{Catbar}} and similar stuff, offer it for user pages, maybe integrate in welcome templates used by you, everybody is entitled to create his or her very own personal portal. -- Omniplex 17:27, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To start with, that browsebar is not really relevant there. And the default Wikipedia interface has enough sidebars and menubars to warrant introducing a new one in every category. :) Oleg Alexandrov (talk)
"To start with, that browsebar is not really relevant there."
I don't understand. Brian Jason Drake 05:01, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I mean the browsebar (catbar) is not relevant in categories, so there means categories, to follow up on your comment above. :) Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 05:09, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But surely a template outlining the category system is relevant when browsing it? Brian Jason Drake 08:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think that this discussion is confusing. There are templates called "catbar" (links to categories) and "browsebar" (links to portals). These templates look identical. Obviously I am suggesting that we have the catbar and not the browsebar in the categories. Brian Jason Drake 03:33, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Don't subst it! What if we want to change it, or if we want to change which categories are top level? It will also add clutter to any page that uses it. Brian Jason Drake 01:50, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
We accept other policies. What makes you think we can't restrict this to 10 categories? Does it really matter if it appears in other categories anyway, given that anyone can remove it? Brian Jason Drake 05:33, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What about all the vandals that don't follow policy? What about all the people who won't be aware that such an obscure policy even exists? Enforcing it is a struggle that doesn't need to be inflicted on the community. Calsicol 22:57, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Soft delete. In the interest of "least surprise", I think that categories is the wrong place for this template. This is because when a user clicks on a category, the person has a certain expectation about what he or she will find there. This template would seem to be tangential to that purpose, since the entries in the "Catbar" really have nothing to do with the category. For the latter reason, it might even cause confusion if a person were to click on an entry in the bar believing it will take him or her to a subject related to the category. Nonetheless, a "subject bar" might have uses elsewhere.
    -,-~R'lyehRising~-,- 23:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There are a couple of hints as to the global nature of this template - the second line is obviously global and it has a link to "categories" on the category page. However, if this is not clear enough, could we make it clearer by formatting it differently (putting it above the tabs on the MonoBook skin?)? Brian Jason Drake 02:57, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment. The top half is a diminished list of the options at Wikipedia:Category_schemes. The bottom half is a diminished list of the main titles at Wikipedia:Browse. A good alternative to this catbar, might be to just improve the Wikipedia:Category_schemes page, and have a link to that on the Main Page (it's currently linked from the bottom of the Wikipedia:Browse sidebar).--Quiddity 04:49, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
All templates are just summaries of what can be found on other articles. However good those articles are, templates have their place. Your alternative might be good, but not because the template is just a couple of diminished lists. Brian Jason Drake 05:03, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 06:08, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:WireImage.com (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Template's only text is "Free for use as long as watermark is kept intact." WireImage copyright policy says "All Rights Reserved." and "This Website may contain photographs of clothing, fashion collections and trademarks which are protected by intellectual property laws and which cannot be used or reproduced, in whole or part, without the prior written consent of the owners, or their authorized licensees, of such intellectual property." Fallout boy 08:18, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 19:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC) Template:Infobox Veronica Mars Television episode (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)[reply]
Template:Infobox Veronica Mars television episode (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
These appear to have been created by a user who didn't understand the template (the history at Pilot (Veronica Mars episode) shows that he eventually figured things out). The templates don't work, and are unused. TimBentley 02:55, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Orbiter (sim) templates

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 06:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Orbitersim NavBeaconListFirst, Template:Infobox Orbitersim NavBeaconListNext, Template:Infobox Orbitersim NavBeaconListLast, Template:Infobox Orbitersim spaceport, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim spacecraft width, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spacecraft Width, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spacecraft N/A, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spacecraft DockingPort, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spacecraft Wingspan, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spacecraft NoDockingPort, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spacecraft 1DockingPort, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spacecraft 2DockingPorts, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spacecraft 3DockingPorts, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spacecraft NoDockingPorts, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 2DockingPorts, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 4DockingPorts, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station DockingPort, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 1DockingPort, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station NavBeacon, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 1NavBeacon, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 2NavBeacons, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 3NavBeacons, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 4NavBeacons, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 5NavBeacons, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 6NavBeacons, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 7NavBeacons, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 1Module, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 7Modules, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 2Modules, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 3Modules, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 4Modules, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 5Modules, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 6Modules, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station NoModules, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station NoNavBeacons, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station NoDockingPorts, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 3DockingPorts, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 5DockingPorts, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Space Station 6DockingPorts, Template:Infobox Orbitersim Scenario3, Template:Infobox Orbitersim Scenario3Pic, Template:Infobox Orbitersim 3Thumbnail Gallery, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spacecraft Engine, Template:Infobox Orbitersim 3StageRocket, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport NoVOR, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 2NAVs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport VOR, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport NAV, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport ILS, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 3ILSs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 2ILSs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 1ILS, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 9NAVs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 8NAVs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 7NAVs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 3NAVs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 4NAVs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 5NAVs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 5VORs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 4VORs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 3VORs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 2VORs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 1VOR, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport NAV-Header, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 6NAVs, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport NoILS, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport ILS-Header, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport VOR-Header, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport Launchpad, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport Launchpad-Item, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 1Nav, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 2Runways, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport Nav-Header, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 4Launchpads, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 1Runway, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 10Launchpads, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 3Launchpads, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport NoRunways, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport 4GLaunchpads, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport GLaunchpad-Header, Template:Infoboxelement Orbitersim Spaceport GLaunchpad-Item
User:0.39 did a lot of work on Orbiter (sim) related articles, and the articles and most categories were deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Orbiter stuff. However, the templates were not deleted. Naturally, none of the dozen or so templates I checked were in use. TimBentley 03:16, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.