Wikipedia talk:Maps in infoboxes/Archive 1

Archive 1

Proposed process

Is the proposed process a good one? Are there any missing steps? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:16, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't think we need to find the most common parameters. Sometimes the most common option does not comply with the relevant MOS or other standard practice, simply because "that's how it's always been done". We need to find out what is in use and why, then come up with a reasonable proposal for a set of standard parameters. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:20, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

That's what I meant ;-) But seriously, you're right - it's just that keeping the commonly-used names, if they fit that model, means less will change for editors, and that's obviously a good thing. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:24, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

I would like to agree, but sometimes goofy parameter names become a de facto standard. Let's see what the list of parameters looks like. If the most common parameters look like |MAP-alt_image pushpin=, I'm not going to support that mix of cases, hyphens, and spaces. I hope that example ends up being a straw man, but I'd like to see the data first.

I revised the process substantially based on the process that worked very well during the coordinate-conversion project. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:32, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Original discussion

Moved from Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Standardising map parameters in infoboxes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:12, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

For the survey, start with the list of infoboxes at Wikipedia:Coordinates in infoboxes. That list contains all infoboxes that used parameters for coordinates other than |coordinates=, and almost all of them have mapping parameters. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:24, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. @WOSlinker, JJMC89, Mandruss, and Jc86035: who contributed there. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:20, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict) As a general comment, the parameter names should have all words lowercase (except proper nouns?) separated by underscores as per MOS:INFOBOX.

"Pushpin" probably shouldn't be used because (at least according to Oxford, and my personal experience) it's North American English and is confusing for editors who speak other varieties of English. The default dot image also isn't recognizably a drawing pin. I don't really have any input on the other parameters, since they seem reasonably understandable. Jc86035 (talk) 15:25, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

It's not a pushpin but a pog (although it looks like a billiard ball to me). --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 15:41, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

It's worth noting that some infoboxes have parameters for multiple maps, usually for a static image and for a location map with "pushpin". Infobox settlement, for instance, has |image_map=, |map_alt=, |map_caption= along with |pushpin_map=, |pushpin_map_alt=, |pushpin_map_caption=, etc. We don't, I think, want to use parameter names that would cause confusion between the different types of maps. Deor (talk) 16:17, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Could do with a page creating to collate the templates and parameters on. Here's one or two queries that may help. -- WOSlinker (talk) 17:49, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

I suggest creating a page in Wikipedia space similar to the one we created for the coordinates-conversion project above. It worked very well for organizing and tracking the work. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:35, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Good idea- although we are dealing with larger numbers of parameters in this case, I suspect. Does anyone have a method of automating this job? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:54, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Automating which part of the work? Creating a copy of the WP:Coord project page and adapting it for a new purpose? Looking through the relevant templates to find out what map-related parameters are called? Making a list of those parameters? I think all of those will require manual work. I suppose someone could copy the wikitext of all of the templates and concatenate it into a big file, then use find and replace to isolate and sort the map-related parameters. That might be a fun couple of hours for the right sort of person. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:20, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

If there is a list of template names (wikilinked or not) and a list of words to search for (map, pushpin, ...), I could readily create a single-page copy of all the wikitext, and show which parameter names use the words in the search list. If wanted, please link to a sandbox with the names (or specify category names) and say where the result should go. I don't have time to help with the templates. Johnuniq (talk) 03:31, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Johnuniq: I looked through the first twenty or so infoboxes in the coordinates project and came up with the list of parameter regexes at User:Jonesey95/sandbox3. Is that enough for you to play with? That should allow for some useful discussion. The discussion should probably be moved to the project's dedicated page so that VPT doesn't become the project page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:55, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: Yes, User:Jonesey95/sandbox3 is all I need. It has a red link (Template:Infobox map). Please correct or delete. Where should I put the result? Johnuniq (talk) 04:26, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Where should this be discussed? I downloaded the wikitext of the templates listed at User:Jonesey95/sandbox3 and started extracting parameter names. There are two problems. First, several modules are invoked and there is no way to extract parameter names from them. Second, I'm confused about exactly what is wanted. Consider Template:Infobox Ukrainian oblast which includes: | image_map = {{{image_map|{{{UkraineMap|}}}}}}
My extract of parameter names finds image_map and UkraineMap because they appear after {{{. But UkraineMap is not documented and is probably for compatibility with an ancient system. Also, my system would not find the first occurrence of image_map on the line because it is not after triple braces but is a parameter to another template. My current searching system finds 165 unique parameters matching the wanted text, and that's too much for comprehension. Johnuniq (talk) 08:08, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Finding image_map and UkraineMap does not surprise me. If that second parameter is in use, part of the project will be to convert it to a standard parameter.

Extract everything that is inside of three curly braces. You can dump it to User:Jonesey95/sandbox4 for now. I'm hoping that Pigsonthewing will step up soon and make the project page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:34, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Maps in infoboxes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:53, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

I am 100% in favour of parameter standardisation. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:03, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

• I put 165 parameter names in User:Jonesey95/sandbox4. Not sure how useful the list is! The wikitext of all templates, after deleting the noinclude stuff, is 1.7 MB. I could post it somewhere but there is not much point. Johnuniq (talk) 22:26, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Preliminary list of parameter names

Johnuniq has generated a preliminary list of parameter names in use at User:Jonesey95/sandbox4, using regex suggestions and a list of infoboxes provided at User:Jonesey95/sandbox3. I can already tell that this is going to be fun. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:37, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, Johnuniq. I see that the list includes some false positives, some of which are generic image parameters. Of course, people can (ab)use these to add images of maps, but I think we should consider them out-of-scope for this exercise. We can also discount parameters from Subst:-only templates like {{Infobox Fluss}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:55, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Use automatic maps based on Wikidata?

In templates like {{Infobox telescope}}, the maps are now added automatically (along with the rest of the infobox, including the coordinates) using information from Wikidata. The map is currently created using {{WIkidata location map}}, which is a wrapper for {{Location map}}. I'm hoping that we can also use (or replace location map) with OSM data, see the discussion at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Should_we_ask_for_mapframe_to_be_turned_on.3F about enabling that functionality here.

So I wonder, can we skip this stage of normalising the parameters, and just switch to using automatic maps based on the Wikidata info? Or maybe the process could be combined - standardise the parameters while adding the Wikidata location map as the default if it's not locally overridden? Or do we need to do more development work with this approach first? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:49, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

• Full support for using maps from Wikidata to promote standardisation. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 07:38, 7 September 2017 (UTC)