Wikipedia talk:Teahouse/Host lounge/Archive 8

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Maitre d' Calendar

Has anyone else noticed that starting in December of this year, the calendar is off by one day? If I try to fix this I'm going to end up breaking it (kinda like deleting the main page, except with the teahouse..) and I don't want that to happen.. So if someone wouldn't mind fixing it before everyone goes and signs up for days that are going to be moved, I'd appreciate it :) gwickwire | Leave a message 21:22, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

I had to build it manually, and I'm not surprised it might be off. Sorry about that :( SarahStierch (talk) 21:57, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Can someone create an image of Cyprus China locating map?

There is an article of the new article Cyprus China relations which needs a locating map and I do not know the application to create it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IsrArmen (talk • contribs) 17:32, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi IsrArmen. You've found the host lounge, which is for occasional discussion of the workings of the teahouse. I see you've posted your question at the teahouse proper as well — I expect you'll get an answer there. GaramondLethe 17:54, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Maitre d' reminder script

Hey, all, I've made a new script at User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/teahouseReminder.js. This one pops up a reminder to you when you log in if your shift as Maitre d' is coming up (or already here). This one takes some setup and configuration, though. What you need to do is follow this link, change the date and range values to what you want (there are some comments that explain this a bit; it'll preload using my next shift as an example), and save the page. Once you do that, import the script from the location you just saved as you would with any other script. Then, all you have to do is go back in and change the date and range when you have a new shift coming up. Comments, questions, concerns are welcome as always! Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:31, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

• Hey Writ, thanks a bunch. I'm glad you're still up for some script writing now that you've got a mop in hand! Do we just do an importScript() onto our common.js page? Once we have the script saved on our appropriate subpage? I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 02:18, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Yep, just do an importScript("User:I Jethrobot/teahouseReminder.js"); in your common.js page. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 02:37, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Heather on the blog!

A profile about Heatherawalls is on the WMF blog, as written by Siko :) Read it here. SarahStierch (talk) 18:26, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

IE9

Heavens to Betsy, we appear to have broken IE9 - see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Blank space on Teahouse. NtheP (talk) 12:05, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

AFC widget doesn't appear to be sending Teahouse invites

Greetings, for the last few days during the AFC Backlog drive, I've noticed that even when I check the "include Teahouse invite" box for the rejection notice, I'm not seeing the Teahouse template appear on their Talk page. Any idea what's causing this issue? MatthewVanitas (talk) 17:02, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

It's been like that for a while now, but after Teahouse hosts said they were getting irritated with the tons of people coming over from AfC and acknowledging that their responses to those people was declining in quality, I've stopped inviting them. But, perhaps I should go back to inviting them? It's a weird spot :) SarahStierch (talk) 21:18, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Ah, okay so it's deliberate. If that's the case I don't have a strong objection, since there's always AFC Helpdesk. I can kind of see how there might be a desire to avoid mixing the two, since AFCH tends to involve a lot of having to be "meaner" to people in terms of pointing out that their draft has legitimately been declined five times because it's entirely unsuitable, etc. So if that harshes the vibe Teahouse is going for I can certainly see that. Rather than just disable that option, would it be too much work to just remove that TH checkbox from the widget for the time being so people like me don't get confused as to why it's "not working"? MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:23, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

No, it's not deliberate. That was a bug that got fixed early on but wasn't pushed immediately. It's in the beta version I posted on the AfC talk page. The other thing is that if you guys are getting fed up with the constant AfC related questions, I can disable the TH tick box pretty easily. Do you want me to do that? --Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 18:37, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Uh oh...

Getting an internal error when trying to use the Teahouse script installer. It's similar to one I got when trying to run a compare page on two JS files a few days ago. It says:

[3d17054d] 2012-11-05 18:39:27: Fatal exception of type MWException

Not sure what to do here, so I'll leave it to you guys. --Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 18:41, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw that earlier. Still looking into it. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:52, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I've been told this is the appropriate bug. If you guys have a bugzilla account, !vote it up and CC it. I'm not a MediaWiki hacker so I'll leave it to them to find a fix. --Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 19:23, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Phase 2 report available!

Hello again everyone, the Teahouse phase 2 report is up on Meta! The amazing metrics report is there as well. Go check them out and be impressed by the great work you've all done! Feedback is welcome. Thank you so much for your months of excellent work and the new flavo/ur you're bringing to Wikipedia. The proof of the pudding, as they say. heather walls (talk) 20:15, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

New Help:Contents page may send more people to Teahouse

Hi there! Just wanted to point out that the RfC on replacing Help:Contents with a redesigned page recently closed in favor of the update, and the new Help:Contents page is now live. Teahouse is prominently linked on that page, which gets a ton of views, so we may see an increase in questions. I'm kind of curious to see if there is any dramatic change in the types of questions we start to see come in as a result too. Siko (talk) 21:23, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Templates

If anyone wants to take a look, feel free to make changes. These are some templates I made for the teahouse/maître d' program here. Thanks!

Template informing current hosts about maître d' program

Template welcoming new hosts

Thanks again! gwickwire | Leave a message 22:29, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Gwickwire! These are great and I think you should add them here and give 'em their own pages too. We havaen't been conforming to any strict naming or organizing conventions for templates, but based on what we've been naming other stuff maybe put 'em at 'WP:Teahouse/Maitre_d_welcome' and 'WP:Teahouse/Host_welcome' ? - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 20:01, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, originally I planned for them to be used by me, and me alone, but if they get placed in the Teahouse area, I will not oppose a name change (the names I chose are really bad). However, I'm not super savvy in this area, so if someone wants to move/copy+paste/transclude/etc. the templates here I'd be totally fine with it. However, if they are copy-pasted, could you please leave my copy in my userspace (as I'm not completely sure I subst:ed them when I used them first), and I'll go in and see what needs done? Thanks! gwickwire | Leave a message 23:15, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I went ahead and moved them, as there didn't seem to be any opposition to that here. Also added them to the page of templates. gwickwire | Leave a message 03:32, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

A quick link

Sorry again about my disappearance over the past little while, but at least I have AFCH v4.1.16b2 to show for it. Here's a little something I've been working on: User:Nathan2055/sandbox. It's the idiot-proof, all cases covered, instant gasoline-powered guide to OTRS. Hopefully this will help you guys, and I'll try to incorporate this when I get back to work on the how-to guides. See you soon, Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 21:14, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Cool stuff. Especially the AFCH--I'd love to get some more AfC questioners back here (tho I understand it can be trying on the old patience to answer their predictable questions again and again). I love the clarity of the copyright release template. Just curious: what's the anticipated context of use for Teahouse? Do you anticipate we'll be pointing a lot of guests to it? This might also be of keen interest to thewub and the Help wikiproject, if you haven't already let 'em know. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 20:12, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm confused by the release template. You seem to be promoting it's use for people own work when OTRS is only needed in the explicit circumstance of it's your material and it's previously published material. Previously unpublished material doesn't need OTRS involvement. It's also a useful template for getting a third party to agree to release material which does need an OTRS ticket. NtheP (talk) 21:18, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's still a work in progress. I'll try to tinker with it a bit more. (I also pinged the two talk pages J-Mo mentioned.) --Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 23:33, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Automated metrics for October are posted

Hey everybody, I've posted an automated metrics report on the metrics page. HostBot will run this report on the first of every month in perpetuity. Enjoy the fresh data! Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 04:27, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! My inner statistician wonders if more months could be shown, and if median as well as mean could be listed. If this is a bother this might be a good opportunity for me to learn how to write this kind of code; point me to where the source is and I'll take a stab at it. GaramondLethe 06:44, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Woot! Gimme a few days to get it posted to GitHub. It should be relatively easy to add more months. Medians can also be added without too much trouble (tho it requires a separate method). Do you know Python? - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 19:56, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Yep, I know python. Looking forward to seeing how the magic works... GaramondLethe 23:34, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Is the mean time to first response seconds? I sure hope it's not in minutes! I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 22:37, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Heh. Yeah, that's in minutes! But, hey, it's still pretty good. On par with the Help Desk at least, last time I checked. Since it's a mean, it's going to be kind of inflated by the occasional question that isn't answered for hours. The median response time is only about 30 minutes. Also, I'm going by edit comments here, so if the response doesn't have the /* correct section heading*/ in it, I won't be able to count it as a response. @Garamond Lethe: I've finally got the automated metrics code up on GitHub. There are several outstanding issues that need to be fixed, and only minimal doc at this point... it's a work in progress. Still, you should check it out (literally and figuratively), and feel free to document any issues, suggest improvements, make push requests, etc. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 03:20, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Weird question on my talk page

Somebody dropped off a strange one on my talk page: User_talk:Nathan2055#step_by_step_please. This person appears to have been confused by an automated invite and thought I was personally trying to help them. As such, they left a long and detailed message assuming I knew exactly what was going on. Does anybody want to sort through this for me? Thanks in advance, Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 23:26, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Nathan2055, I moved it to the Teahouse question page so that a host with time can address it. Hope that's okay :) heather walls (talk) 23:54, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

...which reminds me: I've posted the current list of people whose names appear on HostBot invites here (and transcluded on the invitee reports page), along with a more detailed explanation of the criteria HostBot uses to determine whom to invite. Edit if you would like your name added to/removed from HostBot invites! I noticed that several of the hosts whose names appear aren't real active right now, so it would be great to get some new folks signing up. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 03:26, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Oops!

I answered a question on the Teahouse without thinking - but now I am afraid that only hosts are allowed to answer questions. I couldn't find any instructions. Is it okay if anybody jumps in and helps where they feel they are able? Should I delete my answer? I definitely don't want to give new contributors bad answers, and I'm a new contributor myself so I'm feeling deep regret for trying to answer. --Wieldthespade (talk) 11:16, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Wieldthespade. Welcome to the Teahouse, and thank you for wanting to help. I have never seen any rule that you have to sign up as a host before answering questions as long as you know the answer and you follow the somewhat unusual way that things are done on the Teahouse. But think about signing up as a host. —teb728 t c 23:06, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I appreciate the clarification, and the awesome links. Thank you for the help! --Wieldthespade (talk) 19:35, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Template for declining newcomers who want to be hosts?

Hi all, we've been getting more and more new editors signing up to be hosts. I think that the hosts who are removing their profiles have been doing a good job of explaining why, but I wanted to make that process less time consuming, so I put together this template.

Hi! Teahouse, thank you for volunteering to be a host at the Teahouse! We really appreciate your willingness to help! However, we see that you are pretty new around here and haven't edited very much yet. It takes a lot of time, knowledge and patience to answer new editors questions effectively. So you should probably edit for a while before you sign up to be a host. That said, we hope you continue to participate and spread the word about the Teahouse to other new Wikipedians. Come back soon!

What do you think? Would this be helpful? I'm not crazy about the wording, so feel free to change it as you see fit. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 01:46, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

I think "continue to ask and answering questions" should be "continue to ask questions". Based on the newcomer answers I've seen, we probably don't want them thinking they should. Just my 2 cents gwickwire | Leave a message 01:50, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Cool template! I still think the auto-invite should invite people to be guests (less ambiguous). Did we change the wording in the invite? It says Wikipedia in almost every sentence. :P heather walls (talk) 02:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Good point. I've updated the wording a bit, and added something about 'guest'. But if anyone wants to make the 'be our guest' theme more explicit, they should take a pass. Re: this template, I think it's too wordy (seems to happen whenever I write), so I'd welcome some help trimming it--assuming we want to use it. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 01:13, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

What about taking out some things I've bolded below? Things I'd change are in italics (sorry, but I couldn't think of another way to get my points across)

thank you for volunteering to be a host at the Teahouse! We really appreciate your willingness to help! However, we see you're still pretty new around here and haven't edited very much yet. Being a good host requires a lot of time, and hosts need a lot of knowledge and experience to answer new editors questions effectively. You should probably take some time and edit for a while longer before you sign up to be a host. That said, we hope you continue to ask and answer questions, create a guest profile and spread the word about the Teahouse to other new Wikipedians.

Sorry for the length in my suggestions, and sorry for the drastic change, it's just my two cents. If this is disturbing, someone feel free to remove it :P gwickwire | Leave a message 01:56, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

I like your changes! I've now incorporated most of them into the template above. The only thing I intentionally de-emphasized is the bit about it takes a lot knowledge to answer guests questions effectively. Even if lots of newbies' answers aren't as good as host answers, the fact that newbies are trying to help other newbies at all is a good thing in my book. But I also took out the language where I had explicitly encouraged these new editors/host hopefuls to answer questions. Happy medium, maybe? I also added 'come back soon' at the end because.. well, because I'm a total sap. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 05:32, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

k. I have created this template and added it to the Host templates page. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 23:49, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

I like it! heather walls (talk) 23:52, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

New IRC Bot in #wikipedia-teahouse

Jeremyb has set up a new IRC bot (WM-Bot) for us in #wikipedia-teahouse ^connect, which will post notifications to the channel. Currently, it's set up to ring when someone edits the questions page, the main page, either the host or guest profile pages, and either talk:Teahouse or talk:Teahouse/Host_lounge. We can add more pages if we want to, but this seemed like a good set to start with. This definitely makes hanging out there more useful. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 23:26, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Nice! I had wondered what happened to J-Bot. It's also possible to enable a "seen" function on the bot, which may also be useful. --Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 21:42, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Where am I?

I'm no longer in the Teahouse host profiles. I know that I haven't been that active with the Teahouse, but shouldn't there be a warning before you move me to inactive or something? I'm sorry, I'd just like some more information and for my profile to go back up. öBrambleberry_{_ meow _ watch me in action} 21:10, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Maybe there should be a warning...but in the meantime, it's really easy to put yourself back on the active side. If you're in the host breakroom, just go to the Host landing page and click the check in button, then hit save page. HostBot will take care of the rest today. It's possible you may have missed these announcements, and also the check-in process has changed a little bit since its inception. Sorry for the confusion! I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 21:23, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, Brambleberry. This is totally my bad. Jethro is exactly right, and you did the right thing (clicking checkin), and HostBot did move your profile back to the Host_landing page. But I badly need to document this process so folks don't feel slighted or get confused. Here's the short version: if any of us are inactive for more than two weeks (ie don't make a single edit to any Teahouse page), our profiles get moved to the breakroom. This is done to make sure that only currently active hosts are displayed to guests (since the point of host profiles is to present yourself as someone who's available to help out), and to keep the host list to a manageable length. The checkin process is there so that you can easily get your profile back on the Hosts page when you're 'around' again. Should I change the interval to a month or something, though? Is 2 weeks too short?

As for the alert message on your talk page part... I would dearly love to implement this feature, and it would not be difficult to do. But since it involves editing pages outside of WP:Teahouse/*, I would have to go through a full round of Bot Approval, and that I do not love because it is not easy to do (case in point: automated invites are still pending full approval from BAG, after more than 4 months!). So, sorry again! We definitely want you around. :) - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 05:52, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

It's not that I haven't been inactive, but rather that I put the question page on my watchlist and any question either was already answered by the time I saw it or was something that I couldn't help with (e.g. uploading and changing pictures). I don't think that two weeks is too short, and I do understand that it would take forever to get the Bot Approval, but in the meantime we could set up a system for manually alerting people that they're being moved to the breakroom. öBrambleberry_{_ meow _ watch me in action} 14:43, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Automatic invites fully approved!

Rejoice! --Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 18:01, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

• ...and there was much rejoicing. (yay.) I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 18:12, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
• There's no better rejoicing than two new The Oatmeal comics and successful bot approval! öBrambleberry_{_ meow _ watch me in action} 20:30, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
• Ahhh... what a relief. Thanks to everyone who helped argue the case for automated invites, who alerted me to bugs and potential issues, and who reviewed the code. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 20:39, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

November automated metrics

Just wanted to draw attention to the new batch of automated metrics for November, generated automatically on December 1st. Highlights: Profiles and pageviews are up a little, questions are down a little (but only a little) from October; response time has increased a bit; number of responses has also increased a bit. Not big changes, but probably worth a gander. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 20:32, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Coolio, thanks J-mo. SarahStierch (talk) 23:42, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Ugh, I'm embarrassed I just wrote "Coolio," what year is this? 1994? SarahStierch (talk) 23:42, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm happy to see responses increased - Writ Keeper added Equazcion's reply script into the Teahouse gadget in November and I suspect/hope what we're seeing is a bump from making it clearer to guests how to reply now. Siko (talk) 23:27, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

ZOMG really? That's huge, and I didn't even notice. Well, I noticed in that I saw two response buttons when I viewed the questions page, but I aways assumed that was the result of me accidentally adding two calls to the Response script in my common.js or something :) Thanks, Writ! At the end of the month, I'll maybe pull some extra metrics so that we can compare the # of newcomer responses before & after you made the response gadget default. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 00:21, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Teahouse research publications

I just published some Teahouse-related research that folks might be interested in. There's a conference paper and a post to a research blog. Some of the data in the paper is the same as in my Phase 2 metrics report, but some of it is new. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 00:30, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Lock questions or see who else is currently working on it?

Is there any way to mark a question as "being worked on"? I just started to answer my first user question, however, in the meantime, somebody else did, so my answer became pointless. I only worked 10 min. on it or so, but still. How do you usually manage this issue? Jesus Presley (talk) 10:39, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I think this has been discussed before (have't looked in this page's archives) but I recall we just accepted that edit conflicts are just something we have to live with. NtheP (talk) 10:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

 Jtmorgan is doing... You could add a username is doing template to the thread while you work on your answer. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 02:55, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Y Cool, I think that works: {{isdoing}} --Jesus Presley (talk) 10:56, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

(Wikipedia talk:Teahouse/Host lounge/Archive 5#Edit conflict solutions?, for reference.) -- Trevj (talk) 13:20, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Welcome message for User:Anne Delong

Hi guys,

I need one of you to post the Teahouse welcome message on User talk:Anne Delong. She is new to Wikipedia and is contributing substantially but has a few questions here and there.

—Ahnoneemoos (talk) 07:54, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

 Done but you are always welcome to do it yourself! Thanks for thinking of the Teahouse, heather walls (talk) 07:59, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

My computer sometimes can't handle the Teahouse Q&A page

More frequently than with any other page, the Teahouse Q&A page freezes up so I can't click anything, takes a long time to load, or is killed by my browser. I'm not sure if this is due to scripts on the page or if the page is too large and we need to archive faster, or what. Does anyone have some ideas on how to fix this? I can't imagine that I'm the only one, and new editors who show up to the page and can't use it are likely to be turned off. Ryan Vesey 18:01, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Looking at the size of the Q page it does tend to be running at 140-160kB in size which if it were an article would make it a prime candidate for splitting. There are currently 73 threads open on the page which occupy 151kB of size - so perhaps the answer is that we are a victim of our own success. We could, temporarily, reduce the threshold for archiving but this might only be temporary. Another option would be, and I don't suggest this lightly, would be to start merging questions rather than answer them all separately. So if there is already a "Why was my AFC rejected?" question with an answer and another pretty similar question is asked we could either refer the second questioner to the first or merge the two questions into one thread with one answer. I know it's always been a principle of the Teahouse that each question is treated in it's own rights but perhaps after almost a year it's time to review that. Another option would be multiple Q pages e.g. technical, notability etc. NtheP (talk) 18:37, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

The Q page's total number of questions has been rising slowly. It used to linger around 40, now it's around 70. I have no idea if this is a trend that will continue, but I think it would be wiser to archive a little faster if this solves the problems you describe. I don't think I have had those problems specifically on the questions page, but I have on Wikipedia in general. We might have to dig up answers for people who take too long to return, but I think that is simpler than trying to divide into different types of question page. I also believe we need to continue answering each question specifically or we fall to some of the same problems for new editors that the Teahouse was developed to solve. heather walls (talk) 19:36, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

I suspect that your problems are: 1) Microsoft Windows, and 2) MS Internet Explorer 8. Possible solutions: Better operating system, perhaps Linux or BSD and/or better browser like Firefox, Opera or Chrome. At home, Linux Mint on the desktop and Xubuntu on the netbook using Firefox or Opera have no problem with the Questions page. When I get a chance to check in from work during lunch or breaks where I'm forced to use MS Windows XP or 7 Professional and MS Internet Explorer 8, I get constant pop-up warnings:

WINDOWS INTERNET EXPLORER
Stop running this script?
A script on this page is causing Internet Explorer to run slowly. If it continues to run, your computer might become unresponsive.

Unless I click "Yes" to stop running scripts, computers at work seize until I close the tab with Teahouse questions. Since a majority of users and new editors are statistically likely to use Microsoft Windows and MSIE and therefore be adversely affected, it may be best to limit the scripts and reduce page size. To everyone else, I recommend at least a better browser than MSIE. DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 21:34, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

User blocks?

This is not good. User:Bzfsolpex was recently blocked from Wikipedia, under "Promotional Username" only a few minutes after he posted a question here. I do remember a similar case happening a few days ago for another user (probably Alpha Omega Sigma) at the Teahouse? Does correlation imply causation here? I am tempted to think that some admins might be monitoring the Teahouse here, block ready for any non-criteria meeting usernames.

Regardless of whether admins are doing so or not, I think the Teahouse must try and "protect" its new users. most new users do not realise that a company name or something similar might actually be against policy, and so make such usernames. I have definite evidence that the block tag does not help to understand Wikipedia policies on usernames; and most such users often see a direct indef-block rather than the warning or the explanation (which ought to be the standard procedure before blocking, but turns out to be just a "guideline"). As for how many of them return to Wikipedia under another name, I do not know.

The teahouse members can do well to help explain these new users why their username was incorrect, and properly guide them to create a new username; as well as to protect them from hasty blocks (by overzealous admins) by appealing against blocks if necessary (and similar other ways). What do other hosts have to say to this? TheOriginalSoni (talk) 14:56, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from. I agree that if there are admins 'stalking' the question page that should be stopped. However, I don't feel that we should be leniant on those with bad usernames/bad intentions, as it's stated when they sign up "Usernames promotional in nature are not allowed". If they choose to break that rule, they get blocked. I think that we should still answer the questions though, as others may learn. gwickwire^talk_edits 17:38, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Good points! I'll keep my eyes peeled. If I see anyone with a promotional username, I'll try to reach out to them and explain the risks, hopefully without drawing attention that would get them blocked immediately. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 17:43, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I disagree, for a few reasons. First and foremost, "Teahouse protects its own" is exactly the kind of cliquish behavior that led to the downfall of prior attempts at things like this. The things you're saying need to apply to all new users, not just the ones that post to the Teahouse. That was probably your intent anyway, but that needs to be explicitly spelled out: we do not give people a free pass because they've posted to the Teahouse.

Second, this user wasn't dealt with particularly harshly; this block is standard operating procedure. Looking at the deleted page (the userpage), it may have been slightly hasty to delete as G11, but not entirely unreasonable, and the block was certainly warranted, given the connection between the username and the page. (Incidentally, the block came from the speedy deletion nomination (through NPP) and deletion of the page, not from watching the Teahouse.) If we have a problem with overzealous admins, we need to deal with it by addressing the overzealous admins directly. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 17:49, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm with Writ, we must maintain a neutrality over this. If there is an improvement to be made it's to enlarge on the bald statement of "This editor was blocked indefinitely" and explain why. Softblock for username infringement is different from vandalism or unacceptable behaviour blocks and an explanation of why the block would help to reassure others who may be feeling that asking questions labels them as "troublemakers". NtheP (talk) 18:15, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

My main reason for this was the "standard operating procedure" that is usually followed by admins. I would prefer something like a warning, as well as a "common layman's" explanation of the whats and the whys, as well as some way to autoblock the user within 7 days of the block, rather than a direct block. [Something like "If you do not change your username/create a new account within 7 days, this account shall be automatically blocked by an admin"]. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

That's fine, but the way to address that is by trying to change the standard operating procedure. (You might want to look at the admin instructions for UAA for a start.) Having the Teahouse be advocates for blocked newbies is not a great way to combat this. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:55, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. Have taken it to the Editor Retention first to discuss this possible change there. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 19:53, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Automated Teahouse greeting system

We need to establish an automated greeting system where we can refer users to you to be greeted with Teahouse's greeting message. I was thinking of maybe Category:Wikipedians to be greeted by WikiProject Teahouse? We just get too many newbies at WP:AFC with too many questions and we need to offload teaching them Wikipedia's intracies to someone else so that we can focus on the AFC backlog. What do you think? Do you think a bot can greet people listed at the aforementioned category and remove them from it once they have been greeted? —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 20:40, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

moved from my talk page heather walls (talk)

Is there no longer a Teahouse checkmark on the AFC helper script? Ryan Vesey 21:02, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

^That, also, wouldn't it be just as easy to leave the greeting as it is to add the category? :) You aren't personally responsible for greetings and you don't have to be a host. Maybe the bot can send the invitation to everyone at AfC, but getting permission for things has been tricky business. heather walls (talk) 21:06, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

 Comment:. Problem is that newbies tend to contact whoever left the message and I'm not a member of Teahouse nor do I want to be contacted for technical questions. =/ —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 01:16, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

The Teahouse check is still there but I thought it had been agreed not to use it as the Teahouse was getting too many "why was my article declined?" questions. NtheP (talk) 21:19, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

 Question: What Teahouse check? The {{AFC submission}} doc is lacking. —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 01:13, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

They assume that you are using the AfC helper script to review gwickwire^talk_edits 01:34, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't use it. —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 03:47, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

This could be scripted up, and if I have the bandwidth someday I would be willing to add such functionality to HostBot. But in the meantime, if you don't want to interact with new editors at all, I would suggest you use AFCH. I appreciate your situation but, with all due respect, it's probably less work for you to incorporate this existing (and pretty nifty) tool into your workflow than for me to shepherd a HostBot amendment through the BAG approval process. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 23:37, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I really really need you to be faster. It's becoming increasingly common for newcomers to bombard us with questions at WP:AFC because they do not know where to go since Teahouse has not posted on their talk page. This takes time away from us to decrease the AFC backlog. You guys either need to setup a bot to greet people automatically, or you need to change your policies so that users get greeted if they are editing at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/<whatever> or at User:<whatever>/sandbox

I have started a new WikiProject, called WP:OUTREACH to coordinate our efforts since we all work together for the same goal but we have reached a point where some of us have to step up to offload from others. I understand that Teahouse gets bombarded as well, so lets all go discuss what we need at a central point and come up with solutions since WP:WMF is slower than a freakin turtle.

Please join us in the conversation.

—Ahnoneemoos (talk) 03:37, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Ahnoneemoos, I support your efforts to coordinate disparate outreach activities, and I sympathize with how overwhelmed AFC is. I'm sure several other hosts, who are AFC participants, can sympathize even more acutely. But if you want more people to be welcomed, as opposed to invited to the Teahouse, the thing slowing you down is the community's policies towards automated welcoming, not the Foundation.

If you want more people to be automatically invited to the Teahouse, or invited to the Teahouse based on additional criteria, that needs to be discussed here first, since we're the ones who will be most directly affected, and then it will need to go before the BAG as a new HostBot bot request. Any major modification to the HostBot invite criteria needs to be well thought out, because it will need to be carefully justified: again, justified to the community, not the Foundation.

If it were up to me, every new Wikipedia user would be automatically welcomed to Wikipedia, and we'd have to hold a bake sale to revert a newbie. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 22:22, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

No, it does not. WMF is a non-profit organization who's revenue depends on donations. A dwindle on editors and administrators is a threat to its revenue stream and its very existence. We don't need to justify anything to the community, we need to justify our proposals to the Foundation. Unfortunately, the Foundation is too lax and prefers to not act upon, reason why this is posted here. You also need to understand that our policies are not written in stone and what once was rejected might actually be welcomed today due to our current situation and circumstances. It is obvious that new editors get lost quickly and easily, but since the Foundation doesn't act quick enough to solve the issue then it falls on us to fix it. —Ahnoneemoos (talk) 12:58, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually, the WMF defaults to community consensus on all matters, barring any legal consequences that would affect Wikipedia/WMF in a negative way. Otherwise, it's totally our consensus that builds Wikipedia. If you look at the (somewhat) recent HostBot 1 (I think it's the first) BRFA, there were concerns that it was an auto-welcome bot that had to be worked around. The Foundation will not do anything in regards to automatic welcoming, as that is a community problem which needs a community fix. gwickwire^talk_edits 14:08, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

 Comment: The bot proposal gwickwire is referring to is this one. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 17:47, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

• Suggestion - Lets have a separate AFC page for teahouse, where we give the FAQs related to the AFC process and general deletion guidelines (most people who come here are because of COI, Notablity, citations, MOS etc) and then deal with their problems. (Sort of like a separate FAQ cum Questions page for AFC). At the top of the questions page, just keep a banner that says "Here to find out why your article was not accepted at the Articles for Creation? Find an FAQ on the AFC process and ask your questions on the Teahouse AFC page". Whenever a new user posts his AFC related question on the regular questions page- Just move to the AFC page, and notify the user of the same.(Maybe a question moved template similar to TB?) TheOriginalSoni (talk) 14:36, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

My preference has always been to not split up the Q&A board into specialized boards. One of the things I like about the way it's set up is that guests can see all kinds of questions in one place. Ideally, this should make them feel more comfortable asking their own question (whatever it is), which is what we want: reduce uncertainty and intimidation. Anything that increases a new user's uncertainty about whether their question is appropriate for the Q&A board decreases the likelihood that they will ask it. As for the AfC FAQ, I agree that this is would be a good resource to refer new editors to (after we've answered their question!), but don't you think it should be hosted by the AfC wikiproject? - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 17:40, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

We are the Teahouse. Our main motive is to answer questions. Let us answer all the perennial questions that we face before us in the most friendly way possible. If, after that, the AfC project realises that this page would be better suited for the AfC, then we shall move/copy the page for AfC too. How does that sound? TheOriginalSoni (talk) 18:33, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

We are the Teahouse! :) I think a FAQ for AfC is a fine thing, with the caveat that we not use it in a way that conflicts with our hosting guides (i.e. we only link to it after we make a good-faith effort at a personalized explanation), and I don't think it should be linked to directly on WP:Teahouse or WP:Teahouse/Questions. Might be a good thing to include in the "Host sample replies" resource you suggest below? - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 23:41, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Hosts sample replies

I found out that of the many questions, there were some questions that were asked way more than the others (Image licensing, Notablity guidelines, Referencing etc). Can someone here just look through the archives and combine them to make a perfect "Sample Reply" for each of these perennial questions? That way, we wont have to try to find out the links and stuff when answering the same question again and again. Other hosts could then base their answers by looking at the sample answers, a d save a lot of time in the process.

If not the upper idea, then atleast we should have a toolkit containing the most important and the most friendly links related to the various topics. That could turn out to be quite useful. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 19:06, 14 January 2013 (UTC) Moved from teahouse talk TheOriginalSoni (talk) 19:55, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi TheOriginalSoni, If I am reading you correctly, what you are looking for is here in the "How-to guides" which is linked in the host navigation box. Is that what you mean? It could probably use some love and updating. :) heather walls (talk) 21:03, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Right. That was what I meant. I thought the links would go outside Teahouse to their regular pages, and so did not try checking them. Do we also have a link database? One single place where we have a resource of links to all the top notch descriptions, so we can use them whenever we need them. For example, most hosts do not know that the WMF foundation account on youtube has 7 basic level brilliant videos. I also know that there have been direct uploads of several such videos on commons (as I find them constantly on help pages, like that of Watchlist). It would be good if we could keep all our best links together TheOriginalSoni (talk) 21:54, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

I have a feeling that people start that sort of list all the time and none would ever be complete or perfect. I found outreach:Bookshelf to have interesting materials. You are welcome to create a list and let us know about it, or add an idea to the Wikipedia:Teahouse/Wishlist :) heather walls (talk) 02:27, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

This link is excellent. Thanks for sharing. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 06:16, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Admin protect HostBot invite?

Could one of our friendly local admins consider fully protecting Wikipedia:Teahouse/HostBot_Invitation, as it is a high risk template? Since the invites are sent out automatically with only occasional spot-checking, I'm a bit concerned about vandalism. The template hasn't needed any changes for a long time, so it shouldn't affect accessibility. Many thanks, - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 23:21, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

 Done Thanks, Sarah! - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 00:28, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Note to hosts

Hello you fabulous hosts, hope you had some great holidays! Two things...

1. Please don't forget to leave talkback messages for people when you answer their questions. Writ Keeper made this very easy for us with an excellent script.
2. The Wikipedia:Teahouse/Host lounge/Maitre d calendar is looking open for this month, feel free to go sign up if you are interested.

We seem to have been getting more and more questions on all kinds of topics. Thanks for your fast and excellent answers and all you do for new editors to Wikipedia! heather walls (talk) 23:58, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

I was just about to come about the Maitre d calendar needing people, and as the current Maitre d (at least for a few days), I'd like to make a few points about the answers that have been given recently. These aren't about anyone/any answer in particular, just in general:

• Make sure you greet everyone, in every reply, in a different way. This makes the users feel welcome, and makes them more willing to take our advice, even if it's not the answer they wanted.
• Make sure to leave talkback messages! Remember that the users asking questions are mostly new, <100 edits type users, who don't know how to watchlist the page, or to check back. Leaving a talkback allows them to see the response and ask for clarifying if they need it.
• Don't link. I'd love to ask for no linking at all, but that's inevitable. Instead of linking, explain the policy. Don't say "Well there's this you can look at", say whatever it is the page you link to says. Being linked to a page is impersonal and robotic, whereas a personalized response with only the points that pertain to them is inviting and helpful, and easier for newer editors.
• If a question is placed at the bottom of the page, feel free to move it up, but notify the user of such on their talkpage. This helps if the user comes back, looks at the bottom, and says "WTF ITS GONE?!"
• If there's a question about an AfC decline, don't repeat the message given at all. If it was declined as promotional, don't ever say promotional. We don't want the user to think we're using templated/boilerplate responses, i.e. the same language.

That's all I have for now, thanks for all you guys do by the way! gwickwire^talk_edits 00:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Great suggestions gwickwire! Thank you, heather walls (talk) 00:10, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

- J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 04:07, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

I'll also note that you can install scripts that make it really easy to leave a talkback (and that even remind you to do so in a pretty non-annoying way), with just a few clicks. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 19:49, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm back to editing, so I'll be happy to sign up for some maitre'd duty again! I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 21:04, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

An AFC FAQ

Hello,

I have tried to create a general FAQ for the AfCs. It can be found here - User:TheOriginalSoni/AFC FAQ. Feel free to look into it, and add anything you think ought to be helpful. Also, dont forget to leave your comments at the talk page.

Cheers, TheOriginalSoni (talk) 07:09, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Posted this there as well: I think this is a good template for a FAQ, but I hope your intention is not to link to this as a first response to a new user who comes to TH asking why their article was rejected. See 'host expectation' #4: "Do your best to explain processes and policies and answer the guest's particular question rather than pointing them to more documentation as a first resort." - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 19:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Little admin help please

Would an admin do me the favor of unprotecting Wikipedia:Teahouse/Guest profile please? I need to make some changes. Thank you! heather walls (talk) 00:23, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse Badges: a pilot project for recognizing editor achievement

The importance of acknowledgement: Hi hosts! While I haven't been participating much with the Teahouse since the pilot, I have been warmly watching all of your great work and the Teahouse community's progress. One of the areas that was identified as a next step for making the Teahouse even better are acknowledgements. Acknowledgements are "easy ways for thanking hosts and guests, [to] regularly acknowledge and reward each other for contributions." (Phase 2 plan). The Teahouse Phase 2 report identified acknowledgements as a way to motivate and encourage editors to participate further by pointing out where they have contributed something positive and letting them know what else they might try next. Survey research suggests that acknowledgements are especially appreciated by female editors, a demographic the Teahouse is trying to reach.

Badges v. barnstars: On Wikipedia, the most established mechanism for acknowledgements are Barnstars (as well as other editing awards). These tools are a fantastic way to highlight editing milestones and exceptional achievement. An area where we have less established mechanisms is in the recognition of regular (but still important) achievements, the smaller tasks and goals that editors accomplish on their way to mastering this site. To attempt to creatively fill that gap, a few editors have been putting together a new type of reward system called Badges. Badges, like Boyscout and Girlscout merit badges, are a type of micro-award, one given more regularly for specific skill acquisition and positive contributions; badges mark the steps towards success, the intermediate points between being an eager but lost beginner and an exceptional contributor.

The pilot: Over the next few weeks we will be rolling out a Badges pilot project. Teahouse Badges aim to recognize micro-achievements such as creating a Teahouse profile, asking a great question, giving a great answer, serving as host maitre d', maintaining the Teahouse's welcoming and helpful atmosphere, suggesting ways to improve the Teahouse, fixing items on the Teahouse wishlist, and any other helpful steps that the Teahouse wants to recognize and encourage. Although it's still under construction, you can get an idea of what we are thinking about by visiting WP:Teahouse/Badge, where User:Anyashy and User:Heatherawalls have been doing great design work. I'm sure they'd love to hear your feedback about how to make the page even more accessible and effective. There's also a wide-open opportunity to invent and suggest other badges that the Teahouse community might want to give out. Think big, go wild.

Measuring results: Badges on the Teahouse are an intentional experiment. With the help of User:Jtmorgan, we will be able to track the distribution of badges and measure whether receiving them increases editor activity, retention, and satisfaction. Our hunch is that it will, but that is something we want to explicitly test and only continue if the data shows it is working. Please share any thoughts, suggestions, or concerns you have about this project. I hope you'll play around with the badges when they're ready, give them to deserving editors, and integrate them into the awesome atmosphere of the Teahouse you've created. Cheers, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 20:33, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I've been looking forward to an experiment with acknowledgements for a while now - congrats on getting close to launching this, guys! :-) Siko (talk) 20:59, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Sounds fun. I'm especially intrigued by the "Great Answer" and "Easter Egg" badges. öBrambleberry of RiverClan 21:01, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Excellent introduction Ocaasi! Two things: One, the page is being reorganized a bit, so don't spend too much time critiquing it yet. Two, what was two? Oh yeah, please comment on specifics about the experiment on its talk page (not here) so we can keep that discussion together. Thanks everyone! heather walls (talk) 21:49, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:For publicists publicizing your client's work

A new essay and guide developed by a Wikipedian for publicity folks - a good tool perhaps for Teahouse hosts to share with PR people! Read: Wikipedia:For publicists publicizing your client's work. -- SarahStierch (talk) 21:53, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Rolling Ball

Hello,

I have created a new page called WP:Rolling Ball. It shall be a friendly place where experienced as well as new editors can freely discuss topics on Wiki. Everyone is invited and welcome to join the Group. You presence shall also be much appreciated.

You may join by adding your name to the list here. We are currently trying to hold all discussions on the Hang Out Zone. We would love to have some feedback from you at the talk page. Should you join, please also watchlist/keep an eye on the Hang Out Zone, so you can be aware of all the discussions that are going on.

Cheers, TheOriginalSoni (talk) 07:57, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Proposing move of Invitation templates to Template namespace

Hey folks, I just posted a proposal to move the three invitation templates to the Template namespace. You can find the discussion here: Wikipedia_talk:Teahouse/Invitation#Proposed_move_of_invitation_templates --EpochFail^(talk|work) 19:22, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Just posted there! Briefly: this is a good idea in general, but there are several dependencies, and we're in the middle of launching a couple of different features, so we might not get them unraveled right away. Give us a few days? - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 20:00, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

There's no actual need to move the templates, you can just use redirects. (I've posted the code you need to use, in order for substitution to function correctly) -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 03:27, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

WP:Snuggle to support Teahouse Invites -- Feedback requested

I'm working on some new functionality for WP:Snuggle that would allow Teahouse Hosts (or anyone else for that matter) to post invitations to the teahouse directly from Snuggle. I've made a [[1]] of what I think the new functionality should look like and could use some feedback. --EpochFail^{(talk • work)} 22:06, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Removal from hosts page?

Hi Teahouse,

I was a little bemused today to see I had been removed from the Teahouse Host list - no questions asked or even notified. I know I can just readd myself, but I don't know if I can be bothered to if it's just going to be removed anyway. Oh well... Osarius - Want a chat? 19:37, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Have you replied to any questions in about the past two weeks? If not then HostBot automatically removed you to the "inactive" section, all you need to do is click the Check In button and follow those instructions. gwickwire^talk_edits 19:43, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

You will also be added back by the same bot when you do hosting activity, like writing here. :) heather walls (talk) 20:36, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Yep. By editing this page (or any other WP:Teahouse/* page) you have now signaled that you're an active host again. When you hadn't been around for a while, your profile goes to the Breakroom. But now, HostBot should add your profile back in... lessee... about 4 hours? If your profile goes away in the future and you don't want to post to the talk page or wherever, you can always just Check in What's this? periodically. Cheers, - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 23:20, 14 December 2012 (UTC)