Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Assyria/Archive 1

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Wikiproject Assyria

Categories

Right now there is something of a mess with the categories Category:Assyria and Category:Assyrians. Some articles appear in one but not the other, and the two don't reference one another.

Perhaps two categories should be made, one for ancient Assyria and one for the modern Assyrian people. The articles will have to be sorted appropriately. Any thoughts? Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 19:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, the Assyria category should be moveed to Ancient Assyria and Assyrians should be moved to Modern Assyria Chaldean 00:46, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

What about the Assyrian people? How is Modern Assyria going to cover that? I still think that the WP should be moved back to its original name at Assyrian people or at least to "WP Assyria and Assyrian people"... Just a thought. Baristarim 01:11, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm really confused now :) . Well I just had a look at Armenian related pages, and what they did is that with kings and ancient kingdoms, they put them on History of Armenia, and all modern related pages to Armenian people. What do you think of that? Chaldean 01:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

The way this should be structured is very simple. Any articles that have to do with ancient Assyria, put them under that category, such as military campaigns, archeology, kings, etc. Any articles that have to do with the modern Assyrian people, such as the diaspora, language, culture, modern history, etc., that can go under the category Assyrian people. As you may have guessed, there is potential for a lot of confusion. In that case, perhaps it would be a good idea to use the name "Ancient Assyria" for the category in stead of just Assyria. What do you guys think?Šarukinu 20:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

That is also a good idea, Baristarim 14:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Khagani Of Shirvani

Anyone have any knowledge of this? Should it be "Khagani of Shirvan"? Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 20:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Yea I am really not sure. The page was a traslation of the Russian version through altavista. It could be what you say it is. Chaldean 00:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I've tried to clean up the article a bit, if someone could take a look and check its accuracy I would appreciate it. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 17:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Their seems to be very little English info on him in the net, but came across some Russian sources. Akhh the language barrier. Chaldean 17:21, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Tiglath-Pileser III

Hello to all members of WPAssyria,

I am currently working on a paper about Tiglath-Pileser III, and as a result of the wealth of information I am obtaining, I am going to improve the article on Tiglath-Pileser III by adding sections such as his structural reforms and his campaigns against Urartu, and the Levantine coast in the west. If anybody has some advice, comments, concerns, questions, etc., please do not hesitate to consult me. :) Šarukinu 18:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

User:AlexNewArtBot - New Article Bot

Hi, I am in the trial runs of the User:AlexNewArtBot (see Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/AlexNewArtBot). The bot reads all the new articles for a day and puts suspected Assyria-related articles into User:AlexNewArtBot/AssyriaSearchResult, the articles are suppose to be manually put into the portal page and/or removed if irrelevant. Or whatever you want to do with them.

The list of rules are in User:AlexNewArtBot/Assyria, there is also the log on the User:AlexNewArtBot/AssyriaLog explaining the rules that sent an article to the search results (the log is cleared every day, so try to look into the history of the log). Please contact me if you are interested in the fine tuning of the rules

That is all. Any suggestions are welcome. Alex Bakharev 23:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

current events

This could probably be incorporated into any number of modern-focussed articles. [1] Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 04:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I really want to start a page like Assyrians after the Second Gulf War, to talk about all the abnormal events (such as crucifictions, church bombings, etc) that have happened to the community. Chaldean 04:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

New page: History of the Assyrian people

Hey everyone. In response to advice from Chaldean, I recently created this article, the History of the Assyrian people. As the name implies, it's going to deal strictly with the history of the Assyrian people, with an emphasis on their origins, their linguistic, socio-cultural, political & religious history, and so on and so forth. As Chaldean suggested, this will prevent the Assyrian people page from becoming any larger than it currently is (which makes for better organization). So anybody who wishes to add to that page, please do! --Šarukinu 15:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Expansion of History of the Assyrian people

To anybody who wishes to contribute to this page:

I would like to expand this article to include numerous sections and topics, including religious history, political history, ancient history (which would incorporate the Akkadian period), and modern history (AD era). This article is still in a rough state, and is in need of much revision and, like I said before, expansion.

Furthermore, there absolutely cannot be any bias in this article, because too often do we see people spread their political opinions in material about the Assyrian people. So we will have none of that here - I'm going to pay close attention to the choice of words used. This will be an objective article to offer the world unbiased, untainted, and valid information about the history of the Assyrian people, covering both the ancient and modern periods.

Due to the huge disagreement over the Assyrian identity, I feel it maybe a good idea to include a section about the debate with arguments from both sides of the issue, and then let people decide for themselves whether or not to discount the Assyrian identity. What I'm aiming for with this is something similar to the page about the BC/AD vs BCE/CE notation.

Feel free to provide your input, but please steer away from bias - for once let's offer information free of flowery words and biased views.

Šarukinu 22:50, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Location of "Kaskhar"

I have recently created or expanded several articles related to saints recently, and find this particular locale repreatedly mentioned. Unfortunately, we have no content indicating where this location is. I do note that there is a Kashgar in western China, but am unsure if the two are identical. Can anyone tell me where this "Kaskhar" might be? John Carter 15:25, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe they are the same place. Kashgar was a major Silk Road trade center and a center of Nestorianism in eastern Asia. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 22:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I can go with that, particularly considering that most of the places I've found it are in some way related to Christianity and Nestorianism. Thanks for the quick response! John Carter 22:36, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Sargon of Akkad

is now an FAC. Please check it out and vote as you see fit. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 15:13, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Picture for Assyrian People infobox

Hi all,

I would like to get a consensus on who to include in the Assyrian people infobox (see Assyrian people). Currently it shows Ashurnasirpal II (although it wrongfully said Ashurbanipal until I changed it) , Ephrem the Syrian, Freydun Atturaya, and Ashour Asho, due to a recent edit by EliasAlucard. Prior to this edit, the infobox included Ashurnasirpal II, Ephrem the Syrian, Agha Petros, and Ammo Baba. There has been some disagreement expressed as to who should be in the infobox (and thus represent the Assyrian people on Wikipedia), so I proposed that we have a vote on who to include.

Here's how it could work:

• 1. Place one X beside the person you would like to be included in the infobox picture.
• 2. You may nominate new people to be added in the infobox, by simply adding their name in a new line.

The only thing we need to establish is how many people will be included in the infobox, as other ethnic group pages range from 1 to 6 pictures. Personally, I think four is better, as we can cover the four critical periods of Assyrian history: 1. Ancient, 2. Early Christian, 3. Seyfo, 4. Diaspora. Let's get some input on this please. --Šarukinu 23:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Great, where are the nominees? Chaldean 23:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

They are on the talk page in the Assyrian People, or whatever you want I guess. Tourskin 23:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I like Šarukinu proposals and the idea of having four images. Besides, it will look more symmetrical and easier to describe in the caption. I have looked at the current image and it doens't look too bad, and the images are balanced; theres an academic of the genocide era, a sportsman in our diaspora era as well as the two earlier assyrians. However, Linda George's image is great and I like it alot because it will lighten up our page. BTW, we can edit the images to have a mix. So heres my vote:
Ashurnasirpal II X

Ephrem the Syrian X

Agha Petros X

Linda GeorgeX

BTW, we can edit the images to have a mix. - no it has to be original pictures or old paintings. Chaldean 23:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

No we can cut and paste the images so we could have for instance Linda George with FreydunTourskin 23:54, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes of course you can do that. Chaldean 23:56, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Ashurnasirpal II X

Ephrem the Syrian X

Agha Petros X

Linda GeorgeX

My nomination as well. But I dont like the current Agha Petros picture. All pictures should be from shoulder up. Chaldean 23:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with shoulder-up pictures. When we have come to a decision on who to include, send me the pictures, and I can make the final image, if you wish. My beef with the sportsman Ashour Asho was that he is not well known, and isn't a good choice to represent the Assyrian people, as opposed to prominent figures like Linda George, or Evin Agassi, etc. Or should that matter? Perhaps we just want to show people what Assyrians look like? Oh by the way, what I intended with the vote was to have just one set of names, and everybody adds their X next to it, and put a link so that when you click on the X it goes to your username. So it can be something like this:

Ashurbanipal X > What I did was [[User:Šarukinu|'''X''']]

This is an easier way to keep track of who you have voted for, and so that you don't vote twice for the same person, or more than 4 times :) If somebody votes for more than 4 people and more than once for a particular person, I would like to reserve the right to delete votes as necessary. Also, as more nominees are added (which can be done by anyone, of course), you can change your vote - does that sound fair?

So allow me to fix this up, if you guys don't mind ;) From now on, new voters please just add to the list below:

--Šarukinu 04:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)--

Danish people has 8 pictures. Why must we limit ourselves to 4? To me, this is not about who's the most famous Assyrian. Let's face it, we don't have many celebrities. I think the images should include good pictures representing the Assyrian people. Ashurbanipal, was the last great king of Assyria. Hence, he should be included. Ephraim the Syrian, seems to be a very important figure. Freydun Atturaya, can't emphasize enough his heroic efforts for the Assyrian nation. Also, his picture looks better than Agha Petros. But honestly, I think we should include both Agha and Freydun. Ashour Asho's picture, looks pretty cool, and I know many Syriacs who look exactly like him. He has a very typical Assyrian face. Linda George, should also be included. How about, before we change images, we upload new images here, deciding which one looks best? Also, mind you, this must be done with careful precision of Aspect Ratio and proper resizing filters. I can't accept a half-assed job. — EliasAlucard|Talk 20:23 01 Aug, 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm.... I don't mind if its eight, I guess some of the people Elias mentioned deserve to be included. Well if we could we would, but I think that four is ok. I don't really mind which Assyrian King is displayed, so long as he had a bloody reputation and sacked at least 50 towns.Tourskin 19:24, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I think four pictures is fine. What if somebody wants 10 pictures? 20? We have to include everybody then. And why should the Danish people page be a standard for the Assyrian people page? ;) If you look at the Danish page, 8 pictures is quite a mess, and the names don't line up properly with the pictures, they're all over the place. 4 pictures allows us to keep the infobox neat and concise. What we can also further do is cycle the picture, say every week? Every month? But it's not so much about fame as much as it is about representation of the Assyrian people - who has best represented Assyrians throughout time? Who has done the most for our nation and culture? Please vote, Elias, we're all going to do this "democratically". --Šarukinu 19:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Democracy is such a disgusting system. If we ever regain our state, it should be Monarchy, or possibly, Autocracy. Anything else is not acceptable. Anyway: I don't really mind which Assyrian King is displayed, so long as he had a bloody reputation and sacked at least 50 towns. — Well, Ashurbanipal did kick some major ass. I personally, find this one a pretty cool picture of Ashurbanipal: [2] But it seems to be a rather newly made depiction, based on old archaeological carvings. If you look at the Danish page, 8 pictures is quite a mess, and the names don't line up properly with the pictures, they're all over the place. — Fixed with a line break :) I'll upload a new picture soon, for better consensus. Oh and BY THE WAY, please, for the love of God, no images of Tariq Aziz; he looks like shit in this picture: [3] What a repulsive face. — EliasAlucard|Talk 21:51 01 Aug, 2007 (UTC)

I want Ashurbanipal, Agha Petrus, St Ephrem, and Tariq Aziz. Sharru Kinnu III 19:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Excerpt from the Susa article:

In 647 BCE, the Assyrian king Assurbanipal leveled the city during a war in which the people of Susa apparently participated on the other side. A tablet unearthed in 1854 by Austen Henry Layard in Nineveh reveals Ashurbanipal as an "avenger", seeking retribution for the humiliations the Elamites had inflicted on the Mesopotamians over the centuries:

"Susa, the great holy city, abode of their gods, seat of their mysteries, I conquered. I entered its palaces, I opened their treasuries where silver and gold, goods and wealth were amassed... I destroyed the ziggurat of Susa. I smashed its shining copper horns. I reduced the temples of Elam to naught; their gods and goddesses I scattered to the winds. The tombs of their ancient and recent kings I devastated, I exposed to the sun, and I carried away their bones toward the land of Ashur. I devastated the provinces of Elam and on their lands I sowed salt."

That is SO BADASS. Ashurbanipal merits an inclusion because of that alone. Though to be fair, I still think that picture of Ashurnasirpal looks eerie and dark. — EliasAlucard|Talk 22:08 01 Aug, 2007 (UTC)

That's a crazy quote, I love it. We should include it in the header for the Assyrian people article ;) Just kidding. No but seriously, the picture of Ashurbanipal is really cool. I don't think it matters if it's a new creation, there's even a picture of a really cool statue here that we could possibly use. I suppose we could have 8 and use line breaks to keep it neat. I personally would rather go with 4 because it's neater, but that's my opinion. What does everybody else think? By the way, for now Elias, can you please add your votes? --Šarukinu 20:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I'll cast my votes soon, but I am of the opinion that we should decide first, 8 or 4 pictures? Once that is settled, we should vote anew. I say 8. By the way, where is that Ashurbanipal statue picture from? — EliasAlucard|Talk 22:28 01 Aug, 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, we need to decide the number first, once and for all. That statue is from San Francisco, outside the civic center. I'll make a second poll to decide the number of pictures (see below). --Šarukinu 20:43, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

How the hell does the vote work now if we double the number of people? And although Tariq Azziz is a Christian of our denomination, is he a Chaldean / Assyrian?Tourskin 22:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Tariq Aziz was originally named "Mikhail Yukhanna" until he started working for the government. He is ethnically Assyrian, and a follower of Chaldean Catholicism. Elias feels that 8 pictures would be better, more inclusive, but I disagreed, so we made a new vote at the bottom to decide how many pictures are in the banner. Simply vote at the bottom) for 4 or 8 pictures. --Šarukinu 02:33, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Is this it, or are we going to get some more voters? When should we close the poll? --Šarukinu 19:19, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Be bold! Make the decision yourself Chaldean 19:42, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Assyrian People Infobox Vote
Name	Votes
Agha Petros	X X X X X
Ammo Baba
Ashour Asho
Ashurbanipal	X X X
Ashurnasirpal II	X X
Ephrem the Syrian	X X X X X
Evin Aghassi
Freydun Atturaya
Linda George	X X X
Tariq Aziz	X
Naum Faiq	X

Number of Pictures in the Assyrian people Infobox

Please cast your vote, just as the poll above, only for the number of people you would like to have in the Assyrian people infobox. For the sake of symmetry, we'll keep it at even numbers. --Šarukinu 20:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Vote for Number of People to Include in Infobox
Number of People to Include	Votes
4	X X
8	X X

I have voted for 4 because I agree with what was said above about not making Danish teh standard, not that I have anything against the Danes but I prefer four. Cycling the images doesn't sound like a bad idea either. So come on, choose a blood thirsty assyrian king who wrote about his glorius conquests and vote!! I shall sack your towns and consoldiate ramps on your walls!Tourskin 22:59, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Four people is not enough but showing eight atonce is "too messy" so rotating different images of four is great!Tourskin 23:01, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Check out the Russian people page. I think you can definatly do 8 people, but you just need to find the right pictures. Notice how the Russian pick are all from sholdiers up. Chaldean 15:21, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

They are all men, and they all (most of them) have big round beer bellies (probably by judging their double and treble chins). Besides, we should stop looking at what other people have. Our country and our people are different in that we never had a country for thousands of years and so don't have many people to go with it. Tourskin 03:31, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Some vote this is. I get all worked up cos I see a Linda George pic and now we are at a tie.

Military history of the Assyrian Empire

Someone please put this up for GA status cos I think its ready. Thanks a million. I aint bothered to do so, must work on other Assyrian articles!!!Tourskin 03:32, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Hell its ready for FA status. Look at how many references it has! all da pwety colows!!

This is a GAC so please review!Tourskin 21:10, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

It appears we are in a growth phase - this article is now A class!! Somehow. Who cares, yah!Man of Bravery!! 01:16, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Wars of Neo-Assyria

My fellow Assyrians. No doubt our produest achievment is that our people was one of the first to have united the Fertile Crescent under one Imperial Regime. However, where is this achievment?!! We don't have any articles on the wars of Assyria. We have lots of stubs and start articles on a few random battles, but thats not good enough. I propose making a new article, something along the lines of Wars of Neo-Assyria. Anyone?Tourskin 21:14, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Isn't that what the Military history of the Assyrian Empire is all about anyway? — EliasAlucard|Talk 23:05 11 Aug, 2007 (UTC)

Iam just trying to grab attention, besides your neo-assyrian empire article says it all nicely.Man of Bravery!! 17:18, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Shlama

Before you continue editing, i ask you to have a look at this website,http://www.aramnaharaim.org/English/ArameanHistory.htm and when you have had a good look at that make sure to state that today's Assyrians have nothing to do with the Ancient Assyrians, thank you.

Professor Marco

Asm ccc 09:35, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Great thank you so much. I will tell all my relatives in Iraq to immediately start calling themselves Aramaean. Chaldean 14:14, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

We have seen this site before. We think it's a joke. If the morons behind this site had any kind of shame in their body, they would remove it off of the Internet effective immediately. This site, is an embarrassment for all Assyrians. It is an embarrassment for us, because it indicates very clearly, that we have morons amongst our people as well. Morons, in abundance. No wonder why we don't have a country, considering that we have these Aramaya idiots in our midst. They're not exactly helping our cause. Maybe we should alienate them or something. — EliasAlucard|Talk 18:46 12 Aug, 2007 (UTC)

lol, professor, did u not realize how stupid ur message was?Man of Bravery!! 17:21, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

You should see what he's written on Talk:Chaldean Assyrians (at the bottom). He says he's a historian and everything. It's quite hilarous, especially when he doesn't cite any sources, of his claims, that Chaldean Catholics, are supposedly, racially pure Neo-Babylonians. It's like, "I'm a historian, yet I can't prove it." lol — EliasAlucard|Talk 19:46 12 Aug, 2007 (UTC)

Whats funny is that, that website starts with talking about Father Yusuf Akbulut and how the great Assyrian media empire develishly declared him as an Assyrian and mislead the entire world. When in reality, we have a moderator (User:Garzo) who actually met Yusuf in Turkey and confirmed that he proudly identified himself as Assyrian. Of course, not even hardcore evidence like that satisfied User:Benne (see Talk:Yusuf Akbulut - some really funny statements made by him. Chaldean 22:26, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

'(User:Garzo) who actually met Yusuf in Turkey and confirmed that he proudly identified himself as Assyrian' -- That's not quite exactly what Garzo wrote, you should read more carefully, not read what you want it to read ... --Benne ['bɛnə] _(talk) 06:26, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Well Benne, the super objective and neutral editor we all know, please tell me, why Zinda awarded Akbalut as the Assyrian man of the year? I seriously doubt that Zinda, an Assyrian based magazine lacking Aramaeanism, would appoint an Aramaeanist fanatic as the man of the year. — EliasAlucard|Talk 06:11 09 Oct, 2007 (UTC)

LMAO! Ok, we have suffered persecutions, we are not gonna let a wannabe historian with a dodgy lying website stop us now.Man of Bravery!! 00:16, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Nothing's gonna stop us now (Starship). — EliasAlucard|Talk 02:27 13 Aug, 2007 (UTC)

Asm ccc - you are bringing back old arguments, which we have proven to be false over and over again. Nobody here is a student of yours, so stop referring to yourself as Professor Marco. --Šarukinu 19:32, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Important

Please do not let the Ahmaric language die. http://am.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%8B%8B%E1%8A%93%E1%8B%8D_%E1%8C%88%E1%8C%BD — Preceding unsigned comment added by AsurPatriot (talk • contribs)

Hello mister mystery guest. Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. As for your message, Wha?!Tourskin 02:29, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Assyrian American National Federation

This deserves its own article. Its what runs the Assyrian convention, which, by the way, was v. boring this year. As if i didn't know that it was going to be. Tourskin 22:18, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah sure, go ahead and start a stub, just make sure there's enough sourced content for the rest of us to fill in :) — EliasAlucard|Talk 06:13 09 Oct, 2007 (UTC)

Baghdad museum's slow recovery

This article disgusts me: Iraqis are fiercely proud of their cultural heritage. — Iraqis are not Assyrians. Arabs, Kurds, Turkomen or whatever they are, are not Assyrians. Living in Mesopotamia does not make you an Assyrian if you are part of a different, non-Assyrian ethnic group. The article doesn't even mention that there are modern Assyrians today. The insolence is unbelievable. — EliasAlucard (talk · contribs) 06:49, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

We are accomplishing

I really believe that many news media do indeed use wiki as some kind of a source. Before we started this project, I remember whenever I read an article about Chaldeans, there was no mentioning of there ethnicity, or even worse, when both are mentioned, it was always Chaldean AND Assyrian. But now that we have cleared the confusion here on Wiki, we are starting to see news media not differentiating between Chaldean-Assyrian, as with this latest article [[4]] [[5]]. Good luch Elias and everyone else. Chaldean (talk) 21:51, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Fuat Deniz

Help needed at article Fuat Deniz to translate this name into Syriac script. /Slarre (talk) 21:15, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Done Chaldean (talk) 21:52, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks! /Slarre (talk) 22:19, 24 December 2007 (UTC)