Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Herbs and Spices task force

Old discussions

Hi Dave,

This looks great, i hope i can write something about spices soon for this. But i think one thing is may be missing in your template, especially for herbs: a section about the active components in a plant: for example menthol in peppermint. I would really like to see such info in the articles.

You can add this to the template if you like, please go ahead. dave 06:38, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)

And what should we do with spices that have medical uses also, for example Sage or Cinnamon? Will we really need Sage(spice), Salvia officinalis(herb) Salvia officinalis(plant)? This example is extra complicated because there are more than one Salvia species that has medical uses.

I would have one article that is the "culinary"-related page. In other words it would talk about the flavour, smell, uses, storage, and all other things to do with sage or cinnamon. This would be called sage (spice). Another article could "mention" the medicinal use, or have an entire section devoted to medicinal uses. The one advantage of this is that it allows us to easily port the (spice) pages to the wikipedia cookbook later, if the time ever comes for that. dave 06:38, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)

But i'm looking forward to contribute. Lady Tenar

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As an interested editor, I really think splitting things up into multiple (herb) and (plant) pages is adding extra confusion. I would much rather see a concerted effort to keep things together. Putting mace on a separate page that refers to nutmeg is reasonable, but two separate pages for basil? WormRunner 07:04, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Suggest something on the spices and herbs template. Perhaps a section which describes the plant that the spice comes from? This is kind of how it is done in spice books usually. For now I'll just play it by ear and make articles based on the template. So modify the template, we'll debate it, and use that for any future spice/herb articles. We can always change things around later anyways. Thanks for your interest in helping fix up all the spice articles~ dave 06:38, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)

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But Gernot Katzer's page is pretty close to a definitive source. - Burschik

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Expansion to the spices article

Whilst not a member of this WikiProject, I wanted to say that I have greatly expanded the spice article using information from the French article (fr:Épice). Max Naylor 19:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Do we have a Project tag for Talk Pages??

I see we have userboxes for user talk pages but there doesn't appear to be a Project tag for use on Article talk pages. Is it possible to make one for use? There are many articles that could fall under this project's jurisdictin that would not be of interest to other projects or at least don't seem to be.LiPollis 06:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Anybody home on this project? I'd really like to do some work on these subjects but could use some guidance.LiPollis 12:23, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

The banner is at [[Template:WPHS]]. John Carter 18:55, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Format of main page

I may have bumped into a few of you on here and as such you may know I work extensively on WikiProject Food and Drink which is the parent project to this one. As such, I have in an attempt to revive some of the other projects which have softened by revamping their main pages and adding subsidiary pages for better organization and appeal. Now this project may not necessarily at this point need appeal for new members, but it can never hurt. It will also give the page an ease of use for places to click and get templates along with info on merge proposals, deletion proposals, and other information on the project.

As this project is very active I wanted to talk here first about helping the project by putting it along the format which WikiProject Food and Drink, Wikiproject Wine, WikiProject Foodservice and WikiProject Cheeses are currently under. I'm still finalizing Foodservice and I am offering the same to the remaining projects under Food and Drink as well. Please take a look at the other pages and tell me what you think when you get a chance.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 03:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Updated.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 23:01, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

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Inactive project

This sibling project to WikiProject Food and Drink appears to be inactive. In order to get more attention to this subject I was wondering if the members of this project would like to be incorporated back into the parent project as a taskforce which we have recently done with booth WikiProject Foodservice and Wikiproject Cheeses.--Chef Tanner (talk) 17:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Herbs & spices template

• Do not merge Herbs & spices template (original version) with herb and spice mixtures template (original version). The new, merged version (link), imposed today without discussion nor consensus, is too large.

If you want a template that is extremely huge for articles that are sometimes very short (see Mitmita, for example), you could for example merge the wines template with the beers template, or in fact all the alcoholic beverages templates into a single one; you could similarly merge the citrus sodas template with all the other soft drink templates; or for that matter merge all the food and drink templates together. However, we try to keep templates to a reasonable size. "Herbs and spices" and something different: "Herb and spice mixtures" are discrete items and the template sizes, though a bit large for each, are manageable on their own. Badagnani (talk) 04:34, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

• I agree that the mixtures and the plain herbs should be separated. I also agree that the template is larger than some of the articles. If we were to merge the two, then leave one half collapsed (using CSS) and the other half visible (again using CSS). That way both parts would be there, but only the applicable one would be visible at first. For example, garlic would be better as a plain herb, but it's also a component of several mixtures. Therefore, when a reader sees the template, only the plain herbs should be visible by default, but he or she could click "view" to see the mixtures. On the other hand, some spices are never commonly included in mixtures, so it's not always necessary to include both. What about a third template that transcludes both the separate templates together so they appear as a single one. Then you could use template #1 for single spices, #2 for mixtures, and #3 (the template that uses both #1 and #2) to display both. If they are all merged together, then there has to be a bunch of parser function magic to make it all work. If they are kept separate, then we can avoid that. --Willscrlt (Talk) 20:59, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

• Merge

1. The subject items in these templates are integrally intertwined, by combining the template we put these related items together in a single location for ease in editing as well as placing them in a single grouping for readers to easily investigate.
2. Having a single template keeps articles neater, requiring a single template on an article instead of two.
3. The argument against having a large template on a stub is spurious in nature, there are hundreds of example of this on WP. The trick is to set the default configuration to have the template collapsed, which was my intention before Badgnani's intervention.
4. The comparisons made are poor examples. The sets that he mentions are huge in comparison to this template. It is comparing apples to oranges.
5. Some of the articles in the templates are inappropriate and need to be removed, including several herbs and spices articles that only concern medicinal related articles.
6. Some links need to be condensed down or removed entirely, I was also on track to do this when Badagnani intervened. There were several examples such as black, white and green pepper which all linked to the same article or spice mixtures such as Shake and Bake which do not belong. No one had attempted to do this in the months or years since these were created.

--Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 18:56, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

• Merge - isn't this the exact same conversation we are having at WikiProject Food and Drink and people stated that for taskforces this is fine with everyone, it is just the child projects people are having issues with? Having this conversation here is taking the whole issue out of context of the project, this page is not a project, it is a taskforce. I commented off topic I think, I still agree with the merge because of the redundancy of the two templates. The template also collapses until a user opens it on an article, so I don't see a problem with its size.--Chef Tanner (talk) 21:32, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Please move this to the main space page, WP:F&D as that page is more active than this and will draw more responses. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 05:55, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

• Comment - This is the proper place for this discussion. Badagnani (talk) 06:02, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

While it is the proper page, it is inactive for all intents and purposes, with me, you and Chris the only ones who monitor it. I believe it will be a stalemate, even with the link on the main talk page, however I will comment here. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 06:13, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

You're not the only three who monitor it. I'm a member, too, and I monitor it. There just hasn't been much to monitor for quite a while. Keep the conversations here and promote it. As Badagani says below, it's a good way to draw more interest here. :-) --Willscrlt (Talk) 20:59, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

• Comment - There is no problem with cross-posting notices of this discussion in various places. Perhaps it would generate more members of the Herbs and Spices task force. Badagnani (talk) 06:20, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

• I have unprotected the two templates. CIreland (talk) 14:57, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I have merged the two templates. The Herb and spice mixtures template is empty with no links to it I am speedy deleting it. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 23:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

• Comment - That is not permissible because discussion is currently split 50/50 and no consensus exists. Consensus is a fundamentally important part of our (Wikipedia) process; please use and adhere to it. Badagnani (talk) 23:13, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

• No consensus means that your proposal to keep doesn't stand, not the status quo. This is S.O.P. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 23:15, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

• Comment - Consensus was needed before your aggressive imposition of this sweeping change, not after. And such a consensus did not, and does not exist. Please adhere to the use of Discussion and consensus, which is a fundamental part of our (WP) process. Badagnani (talk) 23:17, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

• TFD here.
• New TDF here. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 18:07, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Userboxxes

The new userboxes are excellent. Badagnani (talk) 14:20, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Too wide

With the change, the entire page is about 33% too wide to view without scrolling from right to left. Please return to the version that ensures that the entire page may be viewable from right to left without scrolling. Badagnani (talk) 20:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Spices

Template:Spices has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 09:52, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Herbs

Template:Herbs has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 09:52, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Herb and spice mixtures

Template:Herb and spice mixtures has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 09:52, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

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Saffron FAR

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Saffron again

I started a merge discussion at Talk:Saffron in hope of cleaning up this ex-FA. --Sammy1339 (talk) 20:33, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

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Proposed split of Apium graveolens and celery

Please see Talk:Celery#Split proposal (again) for a proposed split. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:46, 29 December 2022 (UTC)