Talk:Outline of ancient history

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	This article is an outline, a type of article that presents a list of articles or sub-topics related to its subject in a hierarchical form. For the standardized set of outlines on Wikipedia, see Wikipedia:Contents/Outlines. Outlines are within the scope of WikiProject Outlines, a collaborative effort to improve outlines on Wikipedia. For guidance on building and maintaining outlines, see Wikipedia:Outlines.OutlinesWikipedia:WikiProject OutlinesTemplate:WikiProject OutlinesOutlines articles
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Requested move 16 June 2016

Latest comment: 8 years ago21 comments10 people in discussion

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. SST flyer 10:27, 23 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved.

The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment.

Links: current log • target log

– Based upon Wikipedia:Article_Incubator#Time_limit, the old article incubator was shut down. Numerous WikiProjects at that time (and some still remaining) had various own separate incubators and I think the same reasoning that applied to the main incubator applies them as well. This is also reflected in Wikipedia:Subpages#Disallowed_uses which is against WikiProjects to store their drafts hidden away in these locations and to instead move them to draftspace. As I suggested at the Wikiproject talk page, these draft articles (outlines are a type of article to me) are better served in draftspace where it is easier and more fruitful to informed other projects about them and to suggest that people work on pages named like Draft:Outline of London rather than buried away in a subpage of the Outlines WikiProject. The project draft categories are easier to navigate than finding out that pages are in other WikiProjects for whatever reason. Nevertheless, this suggestion has been opposed by @SmokeyJoe: so I'm requesting these moves here. And yes, this is a lot at one time but I can't see any reason to not either support moving them all or to oppose moving them all so let's just settle this. Ricky81682 (talk) 07:46, 16 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

Thanks Ricky,

Oppose all, largely on the basis that doing this will invite people unfamiliar with WP:Outlines to work on these and move them to mainspace.

There is a history, several years ago, of considerable conflict over the creation of "Outline" pages in mainspace. At the time of the demise of activity, I was proposing the Outlines should become its own namespace, sort of replacing the failed/failing Portal namespace. I think there is a good argument that Outlines do not belong in mainspace, although they may belong elsewhere. Unless there is a thorough review of Outlines with new guidance, I really think that Outline drafts should be left as subpages of WikiProject:Outlines, where the uninitiated are unlikely to cause trouble with them. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:54, 16 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

I'm presuming you're referring not to the information page but to the project at Wikipedia:WikiProject Outlines. These outlines are stored within a WikiProject page not the information page. The actual pages, if they were to moved to mainspace, would at be at Outline of weapons and so on so I have no idea why you would prefer it in one place like that than in draftspace. I don't know what an information page has to do with people's ability to find a particular set of drafts for potential articles and I highly doubt that it's easier to find them there. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:04, 16 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

Wikipedia:Outlines is intimately connected to Wikipedia:WikiProject Outlines. No one should ever work on an Outline article without understanding Wikipedia:Outlines. They are not normal articles. They probably shouldn't be in mainspace. As such, they don't belong in DraftSpace either. Some Outlines are already in mainspace, yes, but these are the best of them. It does not follow that the rest should go there too. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 08:12, 16 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

Yes, but that doesn't mean we can't have those pages in draftspace. The pages are tagged with the outline project. We have WP:REDIRECTS as well as Wikipedia:WikiProject Redirect and Wikipedia:Disambiguation as well as Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation but I don't know why outlines are required to be in the Outline subpage. Outlines have been around for years, some people like them, others don't, if they are created, they have to follow the relevant guidelines. So are you saying that say the physics projects has no busy editing Draft:Outline of black holes and it must be kept in the Outlines projects because only the Outlines project can work on it? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:43, 16 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

WikiProject Redirect and Disambiguation subpages don't belong in DraftSpace either. DraftSpace is only for article drafts. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 08:59, 16 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

What does that have to do with the request here? I'm proposing moving these to draftspace. And opposing because people unfamiliar with a style guide could edit them is a ridiculous reason to oppose. It's not like those same people can't just edit these same pages at its current location. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 22:57, 20 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

You should only put things in draftspace that should, when developed, go to mainspace. I object that it should be assumed true that these things belong in mainspace. A mistaken assumption there could have serious negative consequences. And more likely, they will just be deleted in due course for inactivity, in which case they are definitely better left where they are. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 09:44, 22 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

Outlines go to mainspace. It's one of the main items at Portal:Contents. Are Lists not in mainspace? So are you opposing because people won't find it here and thus it won't be listed for deletion due to inactivity? That seems like a mighty strange reason to oppose moving it. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 18:03, 22 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

If the verdict is "move all", someone better write a script to move this lot. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:30, 16 June 2016 (UTC)Reply
- I've been doing these by hand. It's not that much work. Else a script is fine, it's pretty straightforward. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:27, 16 June 2016 (UTC)Reply
  - Wikipedia:Bot policy covers all bot-like editing, even if not using bots or scripts, not for simply the convenience of the bot-like editor. Please get approval for you bot-like editing, like these pages moves that will be a real pain for someone else to revert, and then use an declared alternative account to do them. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:52, 16 June 2016 (UTC)Reply
Note. made a correction to one of the suggested titles. "Drafts" is not a namespace. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 01:18, 18 June 2016 (UTC)Reply
- Thanks. I missed that. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 22:57, 20 June 2016 (UTC)Reply
Move all It's really annoying to have to go to a wikiproject for a draft, that's what draft space is for. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 23:04, 20 June 2016 (UTC)Reply
Oppose all per SmokeyJoe. Doug Weller talk 11:14, 22 June 2016 (UTC)Reply
Oppose all per SmokeyJoe. Most of these have failed to develop for many years, and would need a lot of work to turn into anything useful; they are probably best deleted. Johnbod (talk) 00:48, 23 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Post RfC comments

This should be raised more broadly. Virtually no one who might care was even aware of this buried discussion. It has been re-opened (not in RfC state, yet), at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Drafts in draftspace versus WikiProject subpages. The very fact that so many of these have arrested development is probably directly attributable to them being hidden in the "Wikipedia:WikiProject" sub-namespace where hardly anyone will ever notice their existence. The entire purpose of the "Draft:" namespace is to help people find partial articles they can complete. Duh. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 06:08, 30 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

The proper place is at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Outlines. SMcCandlish, I think you mistakenly assume tha these are "articles". --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:24, 30 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

Lists are a type of article, and outlines are a type of list article. So are glossaries and timelines. Note that most timeline articles are structured lists, and therefore, outlines. The Transhumanist 20:18, 9 July 2016 (UTC)Reply

Quick explanation of Wikipedia outlines

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Outlines are a type of list article. Each outline is about the subject identified after "Outline of" in the title. "Outline" refers to the format of the article...

"Outline" is short for "hierarchical outline". There are two types of outlines: sentence outlines (like those you made in school to plan a paper), and topic outlines (like the topical synopses that professors hand out at the beginning of a college course). Outlines on Wikipedia are primarily topic outlines that serve 2 main purposes: they provide taxonomical classification of subjects showing what topics belong to a subject and how they are related to each other (via their placement in the tree structure), and as subject-based tables of contents linked to topics in the encyclopedia. The hierarchy is maintained through the use of heading levels and indented bullets. See Wikipedia:Outlines for a more in-depth explanation. The Transhumanist 16:58, 3 August 2016 (UTC)Reply

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