Category talk:6th-century Frankish bishops

Scope of category

Rathfelder, thank you for developing the categories for bishops. Further to my comment on the speedy thread, can you explain why Gaul is not appropriate after around 482? Many of the articles seem to use it. The history seems quite complicated: the Franks conquered the Visigoths of Aquitaine in 507, the Kingdom of the Burgundians in 534 and some articles refer to the Ostrogoths ruling Provence. (So for example Viventiolus and Apollinaris of Valence seem to have been Burgundian rather than Frankish.) TSventon (talk) 19:50, 24 February 2021 (UTC)  

According to Gaul "following the Frankish victory at the Battle of Soissons in AD 486, Gaul (except for Septimania) came under the rule of the Merovingians, the first kings of France." But I'm sure you understand the chronology and geography in more detail than me. If you have time please correct anything I've got wrong. Rathfelder (talk) 19:53, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Rathfelder, I am asking why the end of Roman rule in Gaul means that using the word Gaul ceases to be appropriate. That may be a matter of what is best for Wikipedia categories, rather than whether using the word is appropriate in articles. (I am sure you are more expert in categories than I am.) I am not an expert in the detail of the history and geography, I am just pointing out some complications for you and anyone who revisits the category in the future. I think the sentence you quoted should say Roman Gaul rather than "Gaul (except for Septimania)" as Aquitaine and Burgundy were conquered later, so I will query that on the talk page. TSventon (talk) 20:36, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

I am only looking at categorisation, and often there we have to make rather arbitrary decisions. Sadly I didnt get much help from most of the articles, which generally just told me about the diocese, but rarely told me whether they could be described as Frankish or anything else. Felix (bishop of Urgell) is a happy exception, and tells me - as perhaps I should have known - that the whole process was pretty messy. Category:People from Roman Gaul peters out in the 7th century. Category:People of medieval France starts in the 9th, with Franks - over a different area - in between. Categorisation of bishops has to try and fit into that scheme. But please be bold if you think you can improve things. Rathfelder (talk) 22:06, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Rathfelder, Thank you for creating "Category:6th-century Burgundian bishops". I am not surprised the period is messy, once you have started the categories others may want to improve them. I have boldly changed the sentence you quoted to "Following Frankish victories at Soissons (AD 486), Vouillé (AD 507) and Autun (AD 532), Gaul (except for Brittany and Septimania) came under the rule of the Merovingians, the first kings of France." One final suggestion, could "Category:4th-century English bishops" be speedied to "Category:4th-century Romano-British bishops" or similar? TSventon (talk) 00:00, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Done. And I do hope people who understand the period better than me will improve all these. People who produce articles about bishops are understandably much more interested in theology than geography or history.Rathfelder (talk) 10:59, 25 February 2021 (UTC)