Category talk:American female winemakers

Opposed speedy move request

• Category:American female winemakers to Category:American women winemakers – Reason C2C: per siblings in Category:American women by occupation. TSventon (talk) 20:48, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

  Oppose speedy. Female versus women is not clear cut, especially not under C2C. Mason (talk) 00:30, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

  Oppose There is no consensus on "women" versus "female" as an adjective, and existing cats should generally not be renamed. NLeeuw (talk) 06:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

  NLeeuw, for future reference, do you have a source for what you said? TSventon (talk) 22:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

  @TSventon I do. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 April 27#Women/Men or Female/Male as an adjective. See User:Nederlandse Leeuw/Emptying categories out of process#Admin manually moving categories without discussion for an April 2023 incident confirming the fact that there is no consensus on female versus women. In the archives you'll find countless other precedents which confirmed the fact that we do not agree on which adjective is better, and to change it one way or another. NLeeuw (talk) 05:58, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

  NLeeuw the first discussion you linked was closed "no consensus; in general, users seem open to some case-by-case fixes" and your userpage is about out of process moves so I don't think they support "existing cats should generally not be renamed". TSventon (talk) 10:52, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

  I provided those links in order to show there has been no consensus since 2013, and that non-consensus was confirmed in 2023. The statement "existing cats should generally not be renamed" is compatible with the statement "no consensus; in general, users seem open to some case-by-case fixes". I understand the outcome as saying that it is up to the nominator to justify case-by-case fixes; nominating a category for speedy renaming is invoking a general criterion for speedy renaming, which is apparently not allowed. NLeeuw (talk) 14:46, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

  But that is just my interpretation. I could be wrong. I haven't done a full review of every single CfR since 2013 to see what is and isn't allowed to be fixed on a case-by-case basis. Nevertheless, I would suggest not to try and change catnames unless they really pose a problem, such as a category about girls who have not yet reached adulthood, and therefore probably should not be named "women". (There was a discussion about Category:child monarchs some time ago, I can't quite remember where. The argument was that if we were to create a subcategory for girls who became monarchs before the age of 15 or 16, they should be called Category:Female child monarchs (or Category:Girl monarchs), and not Category:Women child monarchs, as "women" and "child" are incompatible words in that situation, even though a parent category would be Category:Women monarchs. This would be a "case-by-case fix" in my opinion.) NLeeuw (talk) 15:03, 29 April 2024 (UTC)