Category talk:British composers

Untitled

Hm. There's a Category:British composers, too, as I just noticed -- should these be merged? Which should be kept? Mindspillage | spill your mind? 08:22, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hmm... good question. I think so, but I'd like someone from the UK to weigh in on this, since I'm a little confused by the exact meaning of these terms. Is a Welsh composer also a British composer? Is an English composer also a British composer, but only after 1800? (For another wormcan of confusion, is a United States composer a subset of American composers?) Antandrus 19:07, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

My personal thought is that Scottish/Welsh/etc. composers should be listed as such (since that's how they're usually identified), rather than "British", and this cat done away with. (I put someone here earlier, but only because I didn't notice there was a cat for "English".) But I don't know how sticky an issue it is with UK-dwellers, myself. As for "American"... I suppose we'll let sleeping cats lie, or something... Mindspillage | spill your mind? 19:30, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and emptied the cat, making them English instead of British (there were only four, and Guy d'Hardelot was French--according to the Grove--at any rate she was born in Boulogne and schooled in France). If anyone objects let us know! Antandrus 20:12, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It's filling up again: Holborne, Bache, Elgar, German, Ouseley as of today. I'm making Elgar English because I happen to have the page open. Does anyone object to emptying it again and deleting the category? I don't think all of the regular contributors to British musical topics have appeared in this discussion. David Brooks 00:21, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Great Britain" properly refers to the island comprising England, Scotland and Wales; the term "British" can be used (e.g. on passports) as a shorthand form for "of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". So Scottish/Welsh/English composers are all subcategories of British composers. Most Scottish and Welsh people prefer to be referred to as Scottish and Welsh; most English people aren't that bothered either way but it would be more precise and consistent to list them here under English. In that case the British category isn't likely to be much used if at all and is probably best deleted if it's going to cause confusion. Wilus 11:28, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

(backing out indent) I think, on the whole, we should make two new subcats of British: Scots (James MacMillan showed up on this page) and Welsh. Northern Ireland composers can be Irish (this is a cultural designation, not a political one). I'm still a little nervous about the tree being so deep though.

Did it. I also redirected Scots to Scottish (I think the latter is correct in this context). I was then chagrined to find so few Scots or Welsh composers available to populate these categories. Someone should write about Hamish MacCunn and Grace Williams. David Brooks 01:01, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hm. Not sure what the Irish will think about being corralled with the Brits but I'll leave it to them to object. Looks good otherwise. Wilus 10:36, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

We can't learn from poets because they are in a worse mess. There are over 474 British poets, and 102 English poets. Wordsworth is English; Tennyson British, and I bet there are some who are both. David Brooks 17:39, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Speaking as a pedant, the term 'British' should NEVER be used of natives of Northern Ireland. They are Irish, yet citizens of the United Kingdom (which comprises Great Britain & Northern Ireland) Fiddleback 10:58, 14 April 2007 (UTC)