Category talk:Pagan metal albums
Latest comment: 5 years ago by Ffranc in topic Most of these bands don't play religious music
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Most of these bands don't play religious music
editI tried to remove the categories "Neopagan media" and "Religious music albums by genre" but was reverted by Koavf. These categories indicate that all albums in the category and its subcategories are religious in nature or part of neopagan movements, which they are not. Only one of the bands currently in the category, Arkona, is associated with any religious confession, and Arkona's album category is subsequently also in Category:Neopagan music albums. The other bands simply represent a genre, defined by other factors than religious affiliation (mainly the use of mythological motifs in their lyrics). Ffranc (talk) 14:20, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Ffranc: Pagan metal is subcategorized under Category:Neopagan music, which is itself under Category:Religious music. Just like how Everything That Happens Will Happen Today is a Gospel album without the performers explicitly proclaiming Christian faith in the lyrics, musical genres may well have someone performing music from a certain religious tradition without necessarily being practitioners of that tradition. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:14, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Koavf: The article for pagan metal does not claim that it's religious music, so that categorization is also unsupported. Gospel is a music style that exists within a religion and comes out of a religious context, which is not the case here. Even regardless of individual bands, pagan metal as a genre does not come from a religious tradition, but from an entirely secular context. A better comparison would be secular musicians who use Biblical imagery just for the sake of allegory, like Conchita Wurst or The Ark, without being connected to musical traditions that come out of Christianity itself. Ffranc (talk) 14:59, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Ffranc: Please re-read: "Pagan metal is subcategorized under Category:Neopagan music, which is itself under Category:Religious music." Is anyone disputing that pagan metal is neopagan music? Is anyone disputing that neopagan music is religious? These categories should reflect those articles. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:02, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Koavf: But the pagan metal article doesn't even claim that it is neopagan music. There isn't any claim to dispute in the first place, just an erroneous category, unsupported by the text. If you have some source that says otherwise you should add it to the article, instead of reverting the removal of the categories here. Ffranc (talk) 17:15, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Ffranc: Please re-read: 'Please re-read: "Pagan metal is subcategorized under Category:Neopagan music, which is itself under Category:Religious music."' I don't know how to help you here--if the article is miscategorized, then fix the article and the category here: the two shouldn't have different schemes that aren't in harmony. Why should the article be categorized one way and the category relevant to that article be categorized a different way? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:21, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- All right, I removed the categories from both the article and the category. Ffranc (talk) 17:30, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Ffranc: Please re-read: 'Please re-read: "Pagan metal is subcategorized under Category:Neopagan music, which is itself under Category:Religious music."' I don't know how to help you here--if the article is miscategorized, then fix the article and the category here: the two shouldn't have different schemes that aren't in harmony. Why should the article be categorized one way and the category relevant to that article be categorized a different way? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:21, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Koavf: But the pagan metal article doesn't even claim that it is neopagan music. There isn't any claim to dispute in the first place, just an erroneous category, unsupported by the text. If you have some source that says otherwise you should add it to the article, instead of reverting the removal of the categories here. Ffranc (talk) 17:15, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Ffranc: Please re-read: "Pagan metal is subcategorized under Category:Neopagan music, which is itself under Category:Religious music." Is anyone disputing that pagan metal is neopagan music? Is anyone disputing that neopagan music is religious? These categories should reflect those articles. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:02, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Koavf: The article for pagan metal does not claim that it's religious music, so that categorization is also unsupported. Gospel is a music style that exists within a religion and comes out of a religious context, which is not the case here. Even regardless of individual bands, pagan metal as a genre does not come from a religious tradition, but from an entirely secular context. A better comparison would be secular musicians who use Biblical imagery just for the sake of allegory, like Conchita Wurst or The Ark, without being connected to musical traditions that come out of Christianity itself. Ffranc (talk) 14:59, 22 March 2019 (UTC)