Category talk:Recipients of American presidential pardons

Two questions

1. Should somebody who has received presidential clemency, but not a pardon per se, be in this category? This issue (among many, many others related to categorization) is under discussion at Talk:Peter Yarrow.
2. Given that a pardon (although not clemency) essentially nullifies a conviction, should this category be (via Category:Pardon recipients) a subcategory of Category:Criminals? Conversely, should this category be a subcategory of Category:American criminals? Or are some recipients of presidential pardons not Americans?
Your thoughts would be welcome. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 05:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

While a pardon may erase a conviction from the criminal record, it does not erase the conviction from the historical record. Pardons and clemency only (except in the rarest cases) are offered to those who've been covicted of crimes. A pardon means that the subject does not bear the legal costs of the crime, not that the crime never happened. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 06:04, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, those "rarest of cases" probably do make a difference in whether or not we can make one cat a subcat of another. Not to argue what should or should not have happened, wasn't Nixon pardoned without ever being charged with anything. That's just the obvious example that comes to mind to make the point that exceptions matter. I am by no means an expert on this topic. Aleta (Sing) 13:23, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

From what I understand, both the pardon and clemency erase the criminal record, so according to the authorities, it's as if the crime never happened. --Jkp212 (talk) 15:23, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe you're mistaken in this; I believe that whether the criminal record is erased is the most important distinction between pardons and clemency. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 19:17, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

In yarrow's case, for instance, his sentence was long over, but he wanted to "clear" his name and record, which is why carter gave the clemency. At least that's my understanding.. --Jkp212 (talk) 20:27, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

New Question

Should William Scott (The Sleeping Sentinel) be on this list? His pardon was not actually from Lincoln, but General McClellan. In fact the article about him also states so. The poem, song, and silent movie were incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.20.54.255 (talk) 14:33, 21 January 2009 (UTC)