Category talk:Venerated Catholics

Latest comment: 17 years ago by Necrothesp in topic Inclusion in Saints category

PockBot (run by IP:207.160.66.129) - Category articles summary as of 19:16:56, Tue Jan 30, 2007

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List of all pages in category Venerated Catholics retrieved by Chris G Bot 2.

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ArticleClass / Status
Beatificationnot yet classified
Wikipedia:Catholic Encyclopedia cat Blessednot yet classified
John Adams (martyr)not yet classified
Aegidius of Assisinot yet classified
Alanus de Rupenot yet classified
Giacomo AlberioneStub
Alexandrina Maria da Costanot yet classified
Alpaïs of Cudotnot yet classified
José de Anchietanot yet classified
Giovenale AncinaStub
Fra Angeliconot yet classified
Anne Catherine Emmerichnot yet classified
Anne de XainctongeStub
Thomas Aufieldnot yet classified
Albert Avogadronot yet classified
Margaret Ballnot yet classified
BatthyanyStub
Ladislaus Batthyány-Strattmannnot yet classified
Bernardo Tolomeinot yet classified
André Bessettenot yet classified
Titus Brandsmanot yet classified
Pedro Calungsodnot yet classified
William Joseph Chaminadenot yet classified
Christina von StommelnStub
Conrad of Offidanot yet classified
Hermannus ContractusStub
Mother Marianne Copenot yet classified
Thomas CottamStub
August Czartoryskinot yet classified
Jan Franciszek CzartoryskiStub
Robert Dalby (martyr)not yet classified
Father DamienFA
Robert Dibdalenot yet classified
Douai MartyrsStub
James Duckettnot yet classified
Edmund Duke (martyr)not yet classified
Duns Scotusnot yet classified
Everald Hansenot yet classified
William ExmewStub
Francesco Faà di Brunonot yet classified
Peter FaberStart
Eurosia FabrisB
John Felton (martyr)not yet classified
Leonid Feodorovnot yet classified
Fernando, the Saint PrinceStub
Władysław FindyszStub
Thomas Ford (martyr)Stub
Charles de FoucauldStart
Stefan Wincenty FrelichowskiStub
Clemens August Graf von Galennot yet classified
Antonio de Sant'Ana GalvãoStub
Gamelbert of MichaelsbuchStub
Gerard ThomStub
Archangela Girlaninot yet classified
Giselle of Bavarianot yet classified
Mother Ascensión Nicol GoñiStub
Gregorio BarbarigoStub
Nikolaus Großnot yet classified
Blessed Gunthernot yet classified
Blessed Hadewychnot yet classified
Elisabeth Hesselbladnot yet classified
Hildegard of Bingennot yet classified
Jacoba of SettesoliStub
James of ViterboStub
Joana, Crown Princess of PortugalStub
Pope John XXIIIB
John of Fermonot yet classified
John of Parmanot yet classified
John of Ruysbroecknot yet classified
Robert Johnson (martyr)Stub
Jordan of SaxonyStub
Justin de Jacobisnot yet classified
Wincenty KadłubekStub
Karl I of Austrianot yet classified
Kaspar StanggassingerStub
Luke KirbyStub
KizitoStub
Adolph Kolpingnot yet classified
Kuriakose Elias Chavaranot yet classified
Imelda Lambertininot yet classified
John LarkeStub
Maria Theresa Ledochowskanot yet classified
Richard Leigh (martyr)Stub
Karl Leisnernot yet classified
Bernhard Lichtenbergnot yet classified
Eustaquio van Lieshoutnot yet classified
Louis Alemannot yet classified
Blessed John Lowenot yet classified
Ludovica AlbertoniStub
Mary MacKillopnot yet classified
Mafalda of PortugalStub
Marco d'Avianonot yet classified
Margaret Colonanot yet classified
Margaret of CastelloStub
Mariano de la Matanot yet classified
Marija Petkovićnot yet classified
Jacinta and Francisco Martonot yet classified
Rupert MayerStart
Humphrey Middlemorenot yet classified
Alphonsa Muttathupadathunot yet classified
John Nelson (martyr)Stub
Marie-Clémentine Anuarite NengapetaStub
Sebastian Newdigatenot yet classified
Nicolas StenoB
Thomas Percy, 7th Earl of NorthumberlandStub
Notker of St Gallnot yet classified
Dermot O'Hurleynot yet classified
Beatrix d'OrnacieuxStub
Frédéric Ozanamnot yet classified
Nuno Álvares PereiraB
Peter GonzalezStub
William PikeStub
Pope Pius IXB
George Precanot yet classified
Regina Protmannnot yet classified
Rabanus MaurusStub
Rosalie Rendunot yet classified
Maria Restitutanot yet classified
Edmund Ignatius RiceB
John Rochester (martyr)not yet classified
Carlos Manuel RodríguezStub
Ludovico Sabbatininot yet classified
Sára Salkaházinot yet classified
Infanta Sancha of Portugal (nun)Stub
José Sánchez del Ríonot yet classified
Januarius Maria Sarnellinot yet classified
Francis Xavier Seelosnot yet classified
Junípero SerraStart
John ShertStub
Thomas Sherwoodnot yet classified
Simon of CasciaStub
Anton Martin SlomšekStub
Luis Sotelonot yet classified
Aloysius Stepinacnot yet classified
Cyprian Michael Iwene TansiStart
Francis Taylor (martyr)Stub
Kateri TekakwithaStart
Teresa of PortugalStub
Mother TeresaB
Thaddeus McCarthynot yet classified
Thomas Abelnot yet classified
Thomas TsugiStub
Thomas Woodhousenot yet classified
James Thompson (martyr)Stub
Mariam ThresiaStub
Pope Urban Vnot yet classified
Joseph Vaznot yet classified
Vilmos Apornot yet classified
Jacobus de Voraginenot yet classified
Robert Wilcox (martyr)Stub
William Lacynot yet classified
William Richardson (Catholicism)Stub
Peter Wright (martyr)not yet classified
Zdenka Cecilia SchelingováStub


Edit by PockBot (on behalf of WarlordJohnCarter)

Inclusion in Saints category

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The Category:Christian saints is the primary category for the Wikipedia:WikiProject Saints. The project is working with all those parties who are canonized or non-canonized, in the Catholic and other Christian faiths. As many of these "non-canonized" individuals from Catholicism may well qualify as saints under the looser definition used by the Orthodox faiths, it would be somewhat discriminatory to not include them within the scope of the project as well. John Carter 17:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)Reply

So now you have a situation in which Category:Catholic saints is a subcat of Category:Venerated Catholics which is a subcat of Category:Catholic saints! I can understand why Category:Venerated Catholics should be a subcat of Category:Saints, but not of Category:Catholic saints, which doesn't cover Orthodoxy. A cat should never be a subcat of itself. I should also point out that categorisation and wikiprojects are two completely different things. The former is a formal part of the actual encyclopaedia, the latter just an informal group of enthusiasts. Categorisation shouldn't be dictated by the convenience of project groups. -- Necrothesp 18:30, 15 February 2007 (UTC)Reply
You're right about the flawed nature of the current categorization. However, the previous categorization structure was just as unconnected as the current one is over-connected. I am in the process of constructing the Wikipedia:WikiProject Saints/Articles list which can be used as the basis for using a function to check on all of the changes in the any of the articles on the list, which will thus be able to focus greater attention on those articles, particularly when it comes to reverting vandalism. As soon as I finish adding the individuals included in the Lutheran calendar of saints to the Lutheran saints list, I will work to revise and clarify the entire categorization structure of the Category:Christian saints. While your comments are accurate, I think the day or two until the categorization is resolved is probably less of a problem than the previous disconnection of all the categories. And, if you want to fix categorization, there are bigger concerns out there. I note someone has already indicated that all of the Category:Jainism is a second or third-generation subcategory of Category:Jesus, which is frankly ludicrous. Maybe you could expend some of your effort in some of those completely inexcusable gaffes, rather than trying to micromanage well-intentioned works in progress as soon as they're started. John Carter 20:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC)Reply
I merely tried to fix something that I found utterly confusing. I did a considerable amount of work on categorisation of saints some time ago, but have been otherwise occupied since and haven't looked at it. When I came back to it today (not particularly intentionally, but by following a link) I was frankly shocked at how disjointed and confused the categorisation had become. If you're in the process of sorting it out then I'll leave you to it, but please don't bite someone just because they're not involved in a particular project and remember that editing rights on topics are not restricted to members of said projects. -- Necrothesp 22:21, 15 February 2007 (UTC)Reply
If you had done work on the categories before, as you had stated, I thank you for it. I have just recently started trying to sort them out for the articles list, and have noticed myself how somewhat disjointed they have become. I am now trying to sort them out so that they become a bit more coherent, leaving all the categories of Catholic saints as subsections of the Category:Catholic saints, and so on. Also, eventually, I am hoping to try to create article lists for each of the categories, particularly the bigger ones, so that people can avoid going through several pages of category to find specific names. Unfortunately, I acknowledge that some of the categorization, including some I have done, is still somewhat random, and am working on it. However, given the proliferation of projects dealing with individual faiths, it seemed to me that we might be better able to improve some saints articles by letting members of the appropriate project more easily see that someone is honored in their specific church, and, possibly, helping improve that article on the basis. I personally would love to find out if there is some group out there (other than stub sorting) who specifically works on trying to clarify some of the stranger categorizations, but somehow doubt there is one or doubt they have sufficient manpower for the task. Also, personally, I only joined the project after I had started to create some of the missing articles from the Catholic Encyclopedia, so my apologies if I took too arrogant or condescending of a tone earlier. Like I said, I'm kind of new here and am frankly stunned by the complexity and convolutions of categorization here. John Carter 22:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)Reply
It's okay. I understand how frustrating it can be when you have a vision of how a categorisation system should work and then someone comes in and disrupts it. It's happened to me. Categorisation can get horrendously complex sometimes, frequently far too complex with too many unnecessary categories which just confuse things. Keep up the good work. -- Necrothesp 00:37, 16 February 2007 (UTC)Reply