Draft talk:Frederick Douglas Williams (lawyer)

Citations

It looks like a lot of citations here are at the end of sections. Just so the authors of this article know, the convention on Wikipedia is that a citation intended to apply to a whole paragraph goes at the end of that paragraph; citations applying to multiple whole paragraphs are duplicated to the end of each one. Mrfoogles (talk) 06:42, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

@Mrfoogles: This was a problem I think I've mostly sorted, as there were sentences cited to Pierce that had nothing at all to do with that source (either they were substantiated by another source or weren't substantiated by any). I've draftified this article because it was a draft which bypassed the typical review process solely because the article's author – the subject's grandchild – asked for it at Reddit, and it was improperly removed from draftspace. This article was full of massive problems that would've been caught by AfC, and while I've fixed some of them, one I'm not going to go out of my way to overcome is notability. Based on the sources in the article right now, the subject categorically fails to meet notability guidelines. These are a hyper-local newspaper obituary, an obituary written by the subject's family, and a very small slice-of-life newspaper article about a class of fourth-graders visiting the subject. However, I'm reasonably confident notability could be established for this subject through print news found in archives like Newspapers.com, so I think a draft is appropriate. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 17:22, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ravenlwill: The article was not deleted; it was WP:DRAFTIFY'd, because it was initially a draft and was improperly removed from the draftspace before it was ready. Please read WP:AFCREVIEW before trying to use Reddit to find someone to publish your article on your behalf. Please additionally read WP:COISELF for why writing about close family members is heavily discouraged. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a memorial service. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 17:29, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

I wasn’t trying to use it as a “memorial service”. But thanks for all your input. I will look for more sources. Ravenlwill (talk) 17:50, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

I found 8 more sources but not sure how to add them, is there any way you could assist? So sorry to trouble you! Ravenlwill (talk) 20:09, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Just post them here and I’ll add them Indiana6724 (talk) 20:45, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Apr 21, 2017, page A9 - Lakes Region Weekly at Newspapers.com

Apr 07, 2017, page A7 - Lakes Region Weekly at Newspapers.com

Oct 15, 1996, page 11 - Sun-Journal at Newspapers.com

Feb 12, 1977, page 16 - The Lewiston Daily Sun at Newspapers.com

Feb 18, 1971, page 22 - Portland Press Herald at Newspapers.com

Dec 18, 1971, page 9 - Sun-Journal at Newspapers.com

Dec 02, 1995, page 15 - Portland Press Herald at Newspapers.com

please let me know if you are unable to view, I have screenshots, sorry if I’m not doing this right this is my first time ever using wiki. Ravenlwill (talk) 21:24, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

And thanks sm! Your help is appreciated more than you could ever know! Ravenlwill (talk) 21:25, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ravenlwill: Hey, Raven, don't worry a bit about getting these converted into citations. I've reapplied for access to Newspapers.com through the Wikipedia Library (I was absentminded and forgot to keep it renewed). I don't assume there's any reason why my application would be denied, and I think last time it took maybe a few days at most. After that, I'll be able to view the full articles as well as clip them if they seem relevant to notability criteria (for biographies, these are called WP:BASIC). I honestly believe that your grandfather's history between being a Tuskegee Airman and his legal practice could at least confer enough notability to allow for an article, as oftentimes sources which are publicly available online today hugely underrepresent the coverage of figures like your grandfather in print media during the mid-20th century. I've written about obscure politicians before, so I'm no stranger to this. As a new page reviewer, I'm also able to approve or deny draft submissions. So since this is on my radar, if we can get this into compliance for notability guidelines, I'll approve the article ASAP instead of the usual months-long backlog. If this article goes back into the 'mainspace' (where regular articles are) and you want to contribute to it in the future, per WP:COIREQ, I suggest using the article's talk page instead of contributing to it directly, as it's heavily discouraged to write about family members. It was still obviously really nice of you to make this for your grandfather, and he seemed like a great guy. TL;DR: Indiana, trying to help you in good-faith, unknowingly skipped over the draft submission process, but I'll try to expedite it the official way. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 01:40, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Will definitely request edits using the talk page in the future if I see anything that needs changing, thanks for all the help, was not aware of all these wiki rules or that I was skipping drafts. I cannot thank you enough for volunteering your time to get the page back up, I’m sure it can be tedious work. Thank you so much!! Ravenlwill (talk) 02:06, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi, just wondering if you were able to access newspapers.com, I know you probably are busy and have a lot going on, no rush ofc, just curious if you were able to get onto the site! Ravenlwill (talk) 16:44, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Also wanted to lyk he’s in a book called ‘Maine's Visible Black History: The First Chronicle of Its People’ (2006) I have pics if there’s some way I can send them to you- here’s the article about him from page 279– “ Frederick D. Williams

Frederick Douglas Williams, Esq. (b. 1922), became a member of the Maine Bar in 1969, making him the first black to practice in Maine who had graduated from a law school acceptable to the Maine Bar.

He may also have been the first to have taken the written examinations, since they were not required by statute until 1957.

Williams moved to Maine with his wife and four sons in 1969, first working for IBM and then as corporate secretary and attorney for Casco Bank & Trust Co. in Portland. He started his private practice in Windham in 1974. Williams told the authors in an interview (January 31, 2003) why he moved his family from New York City where he had grown up.

"I loved New York, but I wasn't about to have my boys killed on its streets," Williams said. "There was safety in Windham. Maine has been very good to me. Our children had a great education here, and our family was well received."

Williams graduated from New York Law School, where he was admitted to practice in the New York Bar and in the U.S. District Court and the U.S.

Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in New York. He served and was in advanced pilot training with the Tuskegee Airmen during World War II and was recalled to serve during the Korean War. Williams practiced law in Maine for thirty-four years, taught law at Saint Joseph's College for fifteen years, and was a very active member in both local and state community and civic affairs. He was president of the Cumberland County Bar Association (1988-89).

Williams moved to Florida at age eighty-one in 2003.

Williams's resume shows that he, in turn, has been good to Maine. He has been a member of the boards of Maine Medical Center, Westbrook Community Hospital, St. Joseph's College in Standish, Maine State Board of Osteopathic Examination and Registration, Goodwill, the Maine State Committee to Study Post-Secondary Education, and the Maine State Employees Labor Relations Board. Williams has been president or chairman of the Windham Town Council, Maine State Housing Authority, Maine State Rent Study Commission, and the Windham Lions Club, as well as district governor of Lions International. He has also been general counsel to the Portland Chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

Williams gave over five hundred jazz LPs to the Music Department of the University of Southern Maine. He grew up in the middle of classical jazz in Harlem. His stepfather, Greely F. Walton, moved from New Orleans to New York to play with the Cab Calloway Orchestra, where he led the reed sec-tion. Greely said, however, that when the big bands died he would never play again. He discouraged Williams from pursuing a career in jazz, which young Fred loved, and to get a profession, instead.

Since he chose law, that is how Maine came to benefit from Frederick D. Williams's enthusiasm and contributions.” Ravenlwill (talk) 11:40, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ravenlwill: It looks like my Newspapers.com finally got up and working (it was renewed several days ago, but I wasn't able to view newspapers for some reason). I'll take a look at the newspapers as well as what you said right away. I'm really sorry for how long this took. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 00:26, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

No worries! Not your fault at all, thanks for getting back to me, much appreciated. Ravenlwill (talk) 13:34, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Also my dad said the part about two of them serving in the army is wrong, one of them served in the army and one served in the air force. Just wanted to request the edit on the talk page like you said, sorry I know it’s a little trivial lol. Ravenlwill (talk) 13:45, 9 November 2024 (UTC)