Talk:Parimal Garden

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 08:14, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that Parimal Garden in Ahmedabad has a 400-year-old banyan tree (pictured)? Source: https://www.gujaratsamachar.com/news/gujarat/ahmedabads-iconic-parimal-garden-gets-new-look-after-60-years
• ALT1: ... that Parimal Garden in Ahmedabad was redeveloped twice by the same architect 28-years apart?Source: [1], [2] and [3]
• ALT2: ... Parimal Garden in Ahmedabad has a bougainvillea arbour? source:[4] and [5]

• • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Jewish cemetery, Lucena
  • Comment: Copyediting needed.

Created by Rahilarious and Nizil Shah (talk). Self-nominated at 05:33, 2 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Parimal Garden; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Comment The article closely paraphrases the google translation of the provided source. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 07:44, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

• Close paraphrasing issue has been resolved.-Nizil (talk) 05:50, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

• Reviewing... Moved from draft 2 Aug, hook interesting, long enough. Will complete soon. Whispyhistory (talk) 14:54, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

• ... Rahilarious and Nizil Shah. Thank you for creating this article (your first I see). The images look good. Copyvio 1%, QPQ not needed as first dyk.

• The source of the hook is in a non-English language that google translates to the "400-year old trees". The reference that appears better researched seems to be the one published by Leaf (doesn't have an author and other reference parameters). It doesn't mention the age of the tree. Times of India says it is 80-years old [6]. I can't find the information anywhere else. Please clarify.
• How can the park be one of the oldest in India if built in 1960? I haven't gone through the rest of the article. Suggest to go through again and sift out which information should be taken from which references to start with. Please confirm.
• Is a banyan tree living for 400 years unique? Let me know if need help please. Whispyhistory (talk) 07:46, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

I have answered at Talk:Parimal_Garden#Queries. I will nominate new hook.-Nizil (talk) 07:44, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Nominated new hook ALT1. Image hidden as not relevant now.-Nizil (talk) 08:06, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

@Nizil Shah:... Thanks for tackling the above. In my opinion, there is a lot of reliance on press releases for the historical facts and some are difficult to verify elsewhere so they need replacing with references that give a more reliable history. For example, if the same architect developed the park in 1970 and 1998, why does that architect not mention it on his own website and why is this not talked about in the research paper by Leaf? The Leaf reference says the park was opened in 1960, evolved between 1950 and 1970s and then redeveloped in 1998. May be that press reference meant to say 1998 not 1970. Whispyhistory (talk) 17:12, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Whispyhistory I agree with your assessment and LEAF is more reliable. The 1970 looks like misunderstanding. The board in the park does not mention 1970 either. I will remove it and propose another hook. ALT2 hook proposed. :D -Nizil (talk) 16:50, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I think 'Ambawadi' issue is resolved but still better source needed marked. Any specific reason? I have added one more ref.-16:59, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

....QPQ provided, adjustments made (several references in non-English), hook is okay and in article and is in the following inline citation. Whispyhistory (talk) 15:57, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

@Nizil Shah: Please resolve the "citation needed" tags in the article. Cielquiparle (talk) 06:22, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Cielquiparle  Done. I don't know how I missed this. -Nizil (talk) 07:31, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

I wanted to propose this ALT hook (after all...lots of gardens have bougainvillea):

• ALT3: ... Parimal Garden in Ahmedabad has a bougainvillea arbour and scrap metal monkeys?

@Nizil Shah and Whispyhistory: What do you think? Cielquiparle (talk) 15:44, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

I am OK with it ALT3 and ALT4 below. Removing arbour and proposing ALT4 for shorter and more interesting hook. Regards,-Nizil (talk) 19:24, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

• ALT4: ... that Parimal Garden in Ahmedabad has scrap metal monkeys?

Approving both ALT3 and ALT4. Out of interest... PM Modi use to take regular walks in the park in the mid 70s (according to one of his biographers [7]). Whispyhistory (talk) 04:45, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

I did not know that. Though it is out of interest of the article, it is a good trivia. :) -Nizil (talk) 05:28, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Paraphrasing

MPGuy2824, can you point to the exact text which need rewriting? -Nizil (talk) 07:47, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

There are artifacts of machine translation left in the current version of the article, and they match with the google translation output, which is why i tagged it. e.g. "presented an idea of establishing the city parks with great distinction." is a weird sentence in English, but i guess it is better in the original Gujarati. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 07:59, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I'm the one who created this article and have physically visited the place. Near the entrance of garden, there is a "board" which has history about the garden. If you zoom in (with scroll wheel) enough you'll be able to spot exact sentence which you mentioned above.

It seems like every reporter (including me) just took content from it, and published. I'm no expert at legal stuff but I think it should be fair to use that sentence (or paragraph) from board. Rahilarious (talk) 21:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

The board uses the phrase "parks of great distinction" which works better than "parks with great distinction". I've changed the sentence in the article. I recommend that you compare the english translation provided by google with the article's text, and change things to write them in your own words. It's sometimes fine to quote short pieces of text, but the source needs to be present, and I don't think an image uploaded to google maps will do for that.

Anyway, good luck with your DYK. I hope implementing my suggestion, above, will get it approved faster. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 05:57, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

I was unaware that the text was taken from a board of the garden. I have removed/reworded the close paraphrase part. Please have a look. If anything else need change, please let me know. Regards,- Nizil (talk) 05:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Queries

• Oldest park in India: I added that as reference said so but there is no corroborating reference so I have decided to remove it. Done
• Ambawadi: Added note in the article clarifying.  Done
• Banyan trees live very long and it is not unusual but long-living banyan trees in the middle of the city are very uncommon. So I had decided to make it DYK hook. As you pointed out in TOI ref that the tree is 80-year-old while other references mention that it is 400-year-old. There is no other way to decide which one is correct. So I removed both claims from the article with a note. Done
• I will nominate new hook for DYK.

Regards,-Nizil (talk) 07:42, 8 August 2023 (UTC)