Page move and merge
editPlease note that a second article on this figure exists under the name Chaka of Smyrna. The two articles ought to be merged. The preferred version in English language academic literature seems to follow the Byzanitine histories, particularly Anna Comnena who is the major source for the bey's career, in calling him Tzachas. Perhaps we ought to merge the articles under the new nameTzachas of Smyrna or Tzachas. Sources which use this name follow:
- George Ostrogorsky, History of the Byzantine State, trans. Joan Hussey (Rutgers University Press, 1969), pp. 360, 367.
- Charles M. Brand, The Turkish Element in Byzantium, Eleventh-Twelfth Centuries Dumbarton Oaks Papers, Vol. 43. (1989), pp. 2-3.
- The Alexiad of Anna Comnena trans. E. R. A. Sewter (Penguin Classics, 1969), p. 233 ff.
Are there any objections to my moving the page? Aramgar (talk) 01:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- For the record, the form Claude Cahen calls him Chaka at Pre-Ottoman Turkey: A general survey of the material and spiritual culture and history c. 1071-1330 (New York: Taplinger, 1968), pp. 81, 85. Aramgar (talk) 02:42, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- Çaka Bey is his original name in Turkish, his name in other languages is less relevant. The Italians call Prince Charles as "Principe Carlo", for the record. Res Gestæ Divi Augusti (talk) 11:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- Actually there are civilian and military ships named after Çaka Bey in Turkey, who is regarded as the founder of the Turkish Navy in 1081. Any name other than Çaka Bey would be offensive for the Turks. Res Gestæ Divi Augusti (talk) 11:55, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Merge
editIt might be profitable to break up this discussion. The merge seems to me unproblematic. Are there any objections to merging Chaka of Smyrna with this article? Aramgar (talk) 15:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- No objections but we must clarify when the man was killed; one article says 1092 and the other 1095. Tourskin (talk) 16:46, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- Firstly, of course these two articles have to be merged since they refer to the same person. As for the name, in fact both Chaka and Tzachas are used in the English sources. I would prefer Chaka or Chaka of Smyrna since it is the closest to the original spelling. Bernard Lewis, Steven Runciman, Jim Bradbury, Warren Treadgold etc. use the name Chaka in their books.[1][2][3][4]
- As for the death date of Chaka, there are miscellaneous figures regarding that. What I could find were the dates of 1092, 1095, and 1097 so far. It implies that a detailed research will be necessary to get to the true date. Thanks. --Chapultepec (talk) 20:37, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- Chapultepec: You are correct about the use of Chaka, and I thank you for the new secondary sources. Perhaps it would be better to merge this article with Chaka of Smyrna. I would be receptive to this solution. Aramgar (talk) 21:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you, I also think the same, Chaka of Smyrna is a good destination. But of course we should add the original spelling in Turkish, and the Greek name which Anna Comnena used as well. --Chapultepec (talk) 21:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- There has been no comment here for more than a week. If no one objects, I would like to begin transferring information from this article to Chaka of Smyrna soon. Aramgar (talk) 22:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)