Talk:Éric Ollivier

allies of world war ii

Hi @LouisAlain: At the start of the war on 1 September 1939, the Allies consisted of France, Poland and the United Kingdom, and dependent states, such as the British India. Within days they were joined by the independent Dominions of the British Commonwealth: Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa.

Please see Allies of World War II for more information. Domdeparis (talk) 11:23, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Hello there, I hear you and I know that; just in 1940 I have never heard or read of bombings on France by any other aviation but the British (with possibly Canadian, Polish, New-Zelander etc. pilots). You may count French aviation as part of the "Allied bombings" but I fail to see why the French military would have bombed its own country.

You may be interested in reading this piece which precisely indicates the tonnage of bombs dropped by RAF Bomber Command on occupied France in 1940.

This is a proven historical fact and unless you provide some links to sites stating otherwise, your position verges to disinformation (revisionism would be too strong).

Please note that this page is just a translation of the French article and this specific information was probably given by Éric Ollivier himself in an interview or so. Also, there is of course nothing personal in here, I have total respect for the attitude and bravery of the British people and army at that time.

On the other hand, I cannot refer to reliable sources indicating his parents sent him to Paris in order to avoid any bombing so I shall proceed to the deletion of that part since it is of no importance at all anyway. LouisAlain (talk) 18:14, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

I object strongly to the inference that replacing the word English that you originally put into your article and subsequently British by Allied is disinformation or revisionism. The document that you provided very clearly states that the bombing was carried out by the Allies. For your information the "possible" foreign pilots that took part in the battle of Britain and the bombing raids included 145 Poles, 127 New Zealanders, 112 Canadians, 88 Czechoslovaks, 10 Irish, 32 Australians, 28 Belgians, 25 South Africans, 13 French, 7 Americans, 3 Southern Rhodesians and one each from Jamaica and Mandatory Palestine.

Your attitude is one that unfortunately I have encountered many times in the 23 years that I have been living in France.

You ask me to prove that I am correct in replacing British by Allied and I would remind you again that at the onset of war there was an alliance formed by the countries that I have mentioned. After the declaration of war by both Great Britain and France an Anglo-French Supreme War Council was also formed. If you can supply proof that the bombing was carried out contrary to the wishes of the other allies then feel free to supply these documents and then rewrite the text by changing to British bombing and if you can also prove that the Welsh Scottish and Northern Irish were also against the bombing change it to English.

The document that you supplied is fascinating and you would do well to reread certain parts especially the following

France probably suffered slightly fewer victims than the 60,595 recorded as killed in the UK between 1940 and 1945, despite receiving nearly eight times the tonnage of bombs. To put it another way, while it took about 1.2 tons of bombs to kill a British victim, it took about 10 tons to kill a French one. An obvious reason for this is that the Allies were not trying to kill French civilians. About a fifth of their bombs were dropped on V-weapon sites, situated in rural areas where civilian casualties were slight. The relatively small proportion of incendiary bombs may also have contributed. Warnings to civilians, and care in the planning and execution of raids, should not be discounted, even though their effects were often limited

There is little doubt that most of the French – at least if their localities were not directly hit –positively welcomed Allied raids in the first two-and-a-half years of the Occupation. The diarist Liliane Schroeder recorded feelings of ‘jubilation and enthusiasm' as she watched the Boulogne Billancourt raid from Paris on the night of 3 March 1942, and found the Parisians ‘unanimous' in their approval of the raids in the following days. Jean Guéhenno, similarly, found that they ‘had difficulty hiding their jubilation.' The graves of RAF pilots who died over France were covered in flowers, at night, by civilians. Quite simply, such a visible sign that Britain was still in the war, and capable of hitting targets linked to the Germans, held the promise of ultimate liberation.

I would suggest that you also read this WP:NPA and refrain from accusing other editors of disinformation without proof especially one that has helped you. Domdeparis (talk) 11:23, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Keep in mind the issue was the year 1940, not the followings when Americans entered the war after Germany declared war on the U.S (and not the other way round). LouisAlain (talk) 15:04, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

At the time of France's signing of the armistice following its defeat in 1940 and before the bombing of the French costal towns there were already 12 countries (not including the dependant states of the UK) that were allied against Germany, these were France, Poland, the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa, Nepal, Norway, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands. They were followed by Greece, Yugoslavia, the Soviet Union, Mongolia and Vietnam, all before the entry of the USA in the war when they were attacked by Japan and the subsequent declarations of war by first the USA on the 8/12/1941 on Japan then Germany on the USA and the USA on Germany on the 11/12/1941. So around 17 countries were already allied against Nazi Germany and/or Italy and Japan and their different affiliate, co-belligerent and client states. It is incorrect to talk about British and even less English bombings despite the fact that the bases and the majority of the planes belonged to the RAF there were already over 1000 non-British personnel that took part in the operations against Germany in 1940 (be it in Occupied France, Germany or elsewhere). This is a well documented fact and unfortunately people think that the alliance only came about with the arrival of the Unites States of America in the conflict, this is false and the use of the correct terminology is important to avoid misconceptions of historical events. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia where facts are presented as best they can be and eventually discussed so that a consensus be reached. Domdeparis (talk) 15:54, 28 November 2016 (UTC)