Talk:Şehzade Murad (son of Cem Sultan)

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Family history:

Prince Mehmed Pierre, Converted to Christianity in Rome, (1475 Konya - 1522 Executed in Rhodes Island), created 1492 by Pope Alexander VI Borgia, Principe Romano, created Visconte de Sayd by the King of Naples, and Patrizio Roma, married 1499 Roma to Nobile Maria Concetta Doria, (died in Naples 1542), with issue., Pierre Mehmed's early days was in Egypt, with his parents and sister, who later married to the Sultan of Egypt. They Eventually moved to Rhodes Island by the invitation of the Grand Master of the island then later to Rome by the early 1490's. Living with the Pope Alexander Borgia's family in Rome by invitation until the death of his father in 1495, then moved south to the Kingdom of Naples. An arranged marriage between the daughter of the Consul of Genoa and Pierre Mehmed, the Doria family are of a deeply rooted noble family. After their marriage, they continued to live in Rome and later settled in Naples and served as an Alternative Sultan with the backing of the Grand Master of Rhodes Island. This we know from the little information provided from the Grand Master himself. Dying in Rhodes Island while visiting the Grand Master and buried in the main Cathedral of the Capital. Today, the tomb is destroyed likely from when the Turks had invaded the island and defeated the Order of St John Nicolas Vatin, annexes 25 page 501, says: " the unfortunate was discovered with his wife, his daughters and his son, who was executed with him … " Narrative brought back by the provéditeur of the Venetian fleet, Zuan Vituri, in a letter dated in Candied of February 11th, 1523: cf; Sanudo XXXIV, 52-69, and confirmed by the newspaper of Soliman the Magnificent. Also see (http://princedjem.com/?lang=en).

1. Prince Pietro Oshin Sayd, (1500 Roma-1594 Naples), 2nd Principe Romano, (escaped Rhodes Island 1522, to Naples, though his two brothers were executed with their father), married (1) 1524 Naples to Maria Francesca dell'Alimena, (d. 1546), married (2) 1550 Genoa to Nobile Teresa dei Marchesi Grimaldi, with issue.

1.1. (First marriage) Princess Maria Concetta Sayd, (1526 Naples -1578 Naples), Nun.

1.2. Princess Maria Francesca Sayd, (1529 Naples -), married 1551 Naples to Nobile Pietro Giustiniani.

1.3. Prince Mehmed Pierre Sayd, (1533 Naples - 1546 Naples), dunm.

1.4. Prince Carlo Oshin Sayd, (1536 Naples - 1542 Naples), dunm.

1.5. Prince Cem Antonio Sayd, (1538 Naples - 1546 Naples), dunm.

1.6. (Second marriage) Prince Pietro Oshin Sayd, (1552 Naples-1600 Naples), 3rd Principe Romano, Abbott, dunm.

1.7. Prince Gio Battista Sayd, (1554-1602 Sicily), 4th Principe Romano, Styled and acknowledged by the Viceroyal of Sicily as the Principe di Bibino Magno 1599, married 1599 to Donna Eleanora Abela, 4th Baroness di Bibino Magno, with issue.

1.7.1. Prince Don Carlo Oshin Sayd, (1600 Palermo – 1653 Mdina, Malta), 5th Principe Romano, 2nd Principe e 5th Barone di Bibino, Buried in Mdina Cathedral, married (1) 1621 Palermo to Donna Petronilla dello Re, (d. 1630), married 1632 to Donna Leonora della Barba, (d. 1638), married (3) 1640 to Maria Louisa Heffner, (d. 1645), married (4) 1647 to Caterina de Nasis, (d. 1648), married (5) 1649 to Richilde Vivier, (d. 1650), married (6) 1651 to Clara Mongibello, with issue.

1.7.1.1. (First marriage) Prince Giovanni Pietro Sayd, (1625-1671), 6th Principe Romano, 3rd Principe e 6th Barone di Bibino, Abbott, dunm.

1.7.1.2. Prince Jean Gerome Sayd, (1627-1679), 7th Principe Romano, 4th Principe e 7th Barone di Bibino, Priest, dunm.

1.7.1.3. Principessa Eleanora Sayd, (1628-1669), Mistress to Don Girolamo Matteo, 1st Duca di Giove.

1.7.1.4. Principessa Speranza Sayd, (1630-1690), Mistress to Gaspardo de Sayn.

1.7.1.5. (Second marriage) Prince Giovanni Sayd, (1638-1639), d.inf.

1.7.1.6. Principessa Marianna Sayd, (1634-1639), dunm.

1.7.1.7. Prince Nicola Sayd, (1635-1641), dunm.

1.7.1.8. Prince Antonino Sayd, (1636-1640), d.inf.

1.7.1.9. Prince Ambrosio Sayd, (1637-1640), d.inf.

1.7.1.10. (Third marriage) Prince Cem Sayd, (1641-1644), d.inf.

1.7.1.11. Principessa Giovanna Sayd, (1643-1647), d.inf.

1.7.1.12. Principessa Marianna Sayd, (1645-1653), d.inf.

1.7.1.13. (Forth marriage) Prince Giulliaume Sayd, (1648-1649), d.inf.

1.7.1.14. (Fifth marriage) Unknown son, (1650-), d.inf.

1.7.2. Principessa Donna Teresa Sayd, (1601-1631), married 1621 Messina to Saverio Dingli, with issue.

1.7.2.1. Giovanni Battista Dingli, (1627-1659), married 1647 Palermo to Bianca Lo Priesto, married (2) 1657 Palermo to Nobile Richilde Dentice, dsp.

1.7.2.2. Speranza Dingli, (1625-1681), 5th Principessa e 8th Baronessa di Bibino, married 1649 Zebbug to Nobile Salvatore Sayd. Senior legitimate descendants whom carry the style and designation of Prince Djem.

1.7.3. Prince Cem Sayd, (1602-1608), dunm.

1.7.4. Principessa Donna Concetta Sayd, (1603-1610), dunm.

1.8. Prince Antoine Sayd, (1555-1613), Monk.

1.9. Principessa Marie Sayd, (1557-1583).

1.10. Principessa Helene Said, (1559-1641).

1.11. Prince Cem Sayd, (1561-1641), married to Matilda dei Conti Ruffo, with issue.

1.11.1. Prince Cem Sayd, (1584 Palermo – 1683 Palermo), 8th and last Principe Romano, Priest.

1.11.1.1. (illegitimate with Constanza Alliata) Marietta Sayd, (1597-1643), married to Nobile Lorenzo Sayd. (their son Salvatore Sayd, marries Speranza Dingli - see above)

1.11.1.2. Pietro Sayd, (1599 Palermo – 1682 Trapani), Priest.

1.11.1.2.1. (illegitimate) Constanza Sayd, (1618 Palermo – 1682), married 1633 Palermo to Alessandro Rossi, Styled 6th Conte di Corniglio e Signore di Torrechiara, with issue.

1.11.1.2.2. (illegitimate) Marietta Sayd Alliata, (1623 Palermo – 1707 Zebbug), married 1650 to Nobile Domenico Saura.

1.11.1.2.3. (illegitimate) Elviro Sayd, (1626-1659), Monk.

1.11.1.2.4. (illegitimate) Evangelista Sayd, (1629-1658), married to Giacomo Grimaldi, Marchese Grimaldi.

1.11.2. Prince Oshino Sayd, (1587-1591), d.inf.

1.11.3. Principessa Teresa Sayd, (1589-1593), d.inf.

1.11.4. Principessa Concetta Sayd, (1590-1595), d.inf.

1.11.5. Prince Carlo Sayd, (1593 Palermo – 1598), dunm.

1.11.6. Prince Giovanni Sayd, (1595 Palermo – 1601), dunm.

1.11.7. Principessa Faustina Sayd, (1598-1611), Nun.

1.12. (illegitimate) Paolo de Sayd, (1530-1589 Naples), Captaino in Neapolitano Navy, married 1567 Zurrieq to Claudia Francecjo, dsp.

1.12.1. (illegitimate) Oshino de Sayd, (1552 Calabria – 1623 Naples), dunm.l.

1.12.1.1. (illegitimate) Marietta de Sayd, (1605 Naples -), married 1627 Messina to Cavalier Gasparo Teuma.

1.12.2. (illegitimate) Teresa de Sayd, (1555-), married to Giovanni Francesco de Costa. Ebbe (son of Giovanni Antonio Costa, Nobile di Albenga), with issue.

2. Prince Nicola Sayd, (1505 Roma - 1522 Executed in Rhodes Island), dunm.

3. Prince Ambrosio Paolo Sayd, (1506 Roma - 1522 Executed in Rhodes Island), dunm.

4. Princess Helena Imperia Perona Sayd, (1504 Roma -1576), died as a Nun, married to Luca d'Armenia.

5. Princess Concetta Sayd, (1503 Roma - 1605), married (1) 1525 Roma to Prince Francois de Lusignan, (d. 1531), married (2) 1532 to Conte Edoardo Doria, (d. 1538), married (3) 1540 to Cavaliere Alfredo Sforza, (d. 1551), married (4) 1553 to Tommaso Pisano, (d. 1574), dsp.

has the mistake of making it male descent to the present day, though the Said family are descendants of two Christian Ottoman ladies. ~~Comte_de_sayn~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Comte de Sayn (talk • contribs) 03:16, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

References