Talk:Šarplaninac/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Why a Serbian title in English Wikipedia?

The name can be set in English as "Sharr Dog" which reflects the location of its origin, mountain Sharr. I believe that the other version with the word "Yugoslavian" is not serious: millennia-old dog named after a short-lived country. By the way, the dog breed belongs to nature, not to Serbia, Macedonia or Albania, so please let us convert the terms to meaningful English. 95.90.184.124 (talk) 20:17, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

We reflect how most English-language reliable sources name it. It is not up to us to decide the name. You have to see what is the name which is most used for the race in English-language sources. FkpCascais (talk) 21:39, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Which English-language sources' statistics did you use to derive this conclusion? The usage of language in the English Encyclopedia should be English whenever possible. If we have an alternative in Serbian and another equivalent in English, we should go for the English variant. And apparently the English variant is "Sharr Dog", not Šarplaninac. The Š character is not even part of the English alphabet. I propose to change it to "Sharr Dog", unless there is any reasonable argument for using Serbian language in the English wikipedia. 95.90.184.124 (talk) 14:40, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

It is not me, I am just one of the million of editors at English Wikipedia, and I just told you how the naming process works. So getting directly to the point, what sources you have that can support the name "Sharr Dog"? We need sources, not your opinion.FkpCascais (talk) 14:45, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Sarplaninec is simply the Slavic version of the English sentence "Sharr Mountain Dog". It is not a special name that is untranslatable to English. If you want to use the Serbian words in the English Wikipedia, it is you that must prove that using the Serbian version is really more necessary than using the English variant. Because the English variants are the normality, e.g.: a breed is named "German Shepherd" in the English Wikipedia and "Deutscher Schäferhund" in the German Wikipedia. One should not use "Deutscher Schäferhund" in the English Wikipedia. This case here is similar. Unless there is a strict evidence that using Serbian words is a must requirement (which I see no reason), then arguably the English version is the way to go. 95.90.184.124 (talk) 21:17, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, since you seem not to be understanding what am I talking about, here, I will show you what you have to do: you need to find English language sources which can confirm that your alleged name "Sharr Dog" is the name the dog breed has in English. In the meantime, I will show you that Šarplaninac is actually used in English, please see this English language sources:

• About Dog by Nicolae Sfetcu.
• The Organic Farming Manual by Anne Larkin Hansen, pag. 238
• Goat Notes: Edition 2 by Emily LeVan, pag. 18
• Montenegro by Annalisa Rellie,Rudolf Abraham
• Original Dog Bible: The Definitive Source for All Things Dog edited by Kristin Mehus-Roe, pag. 372.
• The Dog Encyclopedia, pag. 48

...and on and on... Now, this are all English language sources using our current name of the article as the name to refer to this breed of dogs. What evidence you have that there is some other name to the breed which is more extensively used in English than this one? FkpCascais (talk) 21:27, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I will add you some more, just in case, and it is good to have them here since this are important websites in this area of dog breeds:

• dogbreedinfo.com (as you can see, they mention other versions of the name, but Sarplaninac is the main one.
• molosserdogs.com
• FCI.be (OFFICIAL WEBSITE, see how it says "English name"?)
• eurobreeder.com
• royalcanine
• ukdogs.com
• dogchannel.com
• arba.org (American rare breed association)

Oh this is just the start of the list... Are you still convinced Šarplaninac is not the common name of the breed in English? What you got? FkpCascais (talk) 21:47, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

And I apologise, I should have pointed out to you immediately what is the Wikipedia principle (rule) which is used for naming, here is all explained, please see it: WP:COMMONNAME. FkpCascais (talk) 21:50, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I got the principle of using the most frequent word in English sources. However, this case is different because the word "Sarplaninac" is a direct Slavic equivalent of the English "Sharr Mountain Dog". It is not a special word, just a Slavic concatenation of words, which can be directly translated to English. I propose to use the English translation "Sharr Mountain Dog". It does not change the meaning at all, just makes it English? Let us hear what other editors pick among using the i) English vs ii) Slavic term? 95.90.184.124 (talk) 11:08, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Sarplaninac is actualy the word English language adopted for this breed, and we are certainly not going to make up translations for it that are not used anywhere... Same happends with Hokkaido (dog), Komondor, Kuvasz, Tornjak, etc. So it doesn't matter at all if the word is Slavic, Mongolese, Indian or whatever, if that is the name which was adopted in English. FkpCascais (talk) 13:31, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 November 2016

46.99.28.0 (talk) 22:36, 28 November 2016 (UTC) This is not a youguslavian dog. This dog is from albanian roots" 1. Kosova is an albanian territory, we are albanaian nationality and we are a country The republic of Kosovo, we are not part of Serbia.

2. Sar mountain are in Kosovas south, Albanian's north-east and Macedonia's north part this means this doogs roots has nothing to do with serbians so careful writing lies

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 03:24, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2017

Hi, I am requesting to change some of the information from this article, as some of it is unnecessary and untrue. I am a very knowledgeable on the subject of this article, and have much experience. I would simply remove some items that need not be there. For instance, any mention of albania as the country has no relevance to the article. Thank you very, much. LEJ0140 (talk) 00:16, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — Sam Sailor 05:37, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2017

DorartIbraimi (talk) 12:30, 9 May 2017 (UTC) The person who edited the Sarplaninac did a mistake at writing that the place of origin is Serbia... I wanted to fix it by writing Kosovo and Albania...

•  Not done According to the Fédération Cynologique Internationale [1][2] the origin is "Serbia and Macedonia". Please, provide some other reliable source to prove that it is not so. Vanjagenije (talk) 15:00, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

@Vepton: I reverted your edits because they are contradicting cited wp:sources. Vanjagenije (talk) 18:00, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

@Vanjagenije: Please explain how they're contradicting cited sources? It is a fact the breed was formerly known as Illyrian Shepherd. - Vepton (talk • contribs) 18:05, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

I am talking about your addition of "Kosovo", the sources clearly say Macedonia and Serbia. Vanjagenije (talk) 22:04, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Also, this is a blog, not a WP:reliable source. Vanjagenije (talk) 22:07, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Note: I have closed the {{edit semi-protected}} tag because the semi-protection on this article has expired. Please feel free to continue this discussion. Thanks, —KuyaBriBri^Talk 21:11, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2018

I wanted to change the size and weights given for this breed, because I believe working sarplaninacs can exceed the sizes currently given on this otherwise excellent article.

I wanted to change the weight ranges for the dog to 70-130 lbs. (32-59 kg).

The source I wanted to use was this one: https://blackswampsars.com/the-sarplaninac/

I don't wish to vandalise, or add opinionated or essay-like propaganda to the article, just some more accurate weights and shoulder heights for this breed that I feel are appropriate. Bonesaw65 (talk) 04:53, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

 Not done Current wording is sourced to the Fédération Cynologique Internationale and its official standard, which looks like a WP:reliable source to me. Your source is a personal web page. I see no reason to replace a reliable source with a personal web page which is less reliable. Vanjagenije (talk) 21:39, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Is the Sarplaninac Serbian dog ?, No.

The dogs are from the sar planina "sar mountain" which is Albanian . However the Serbs,Turks,greeks,romanian even Italians have embraced them. and keept breeding they own "version of it" but the dog. Is, again.from sar mountain" which is Albania. wiki neesds to know this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.91.112.216 (talk) 17:41, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Addition/Correction

I thought I might write to the editor of this page to convince him to add something. Apparently Yugoslavia has pressured the FCI a lot in the past to change the breed's name into Serbian Shephard Šarplaninac when it actually was registered as Illyrian Shephard. I am aware that the breed's name cannot be changed since it is stated as such by the FCI but a change should have occurred since the Independence of Kosovo an the apparent friendly relations between Serbia and Albania/Kosovo. Anyways I should mention that the entire West Balkans have been Illyrian land in the past and Slavic tribes arrived around the 7th century AD. While breed is native to the Sar Mountains which are located across Kosovo, Macedonia and Albania.

In a previous debate with another user which demanded a change, you mentioned that the FCI says it's native to Serbia and Macedonia, and as it is written at the end of the article Kosovo is a disputed nation, which has been recognized by most of the UN countries. It'd be very polite and politically correct for you to add Kosovo as a native region of the dog (at the top of the article). Additionally it should be mentioned the Albanian name for the dog where the Serbian and Macedonian names are written. In the Spanish article it is clearly stated "en albanés Qen i Sharrit"

I don't mean to turn this article into a political dispute, I am not a nationalist and love and respect humans of every nationality, heritage, language etc. but the fact that this information is not included in the article, or worse, it's stated at the end as if it was just rumors, is very unfair. And it actually shows that your opinion is biased. I am not "personally attacking" you, please don't misunderstand. I just hope facts might be stated correctly and not left out. Conclusively I wanted to add that most Wikipedia articles are "incorrect" when it comes to territorial or national disputes (changes), e.g. Alexander the Great was of Hellenic heritage and at the time the language spoken in the modern territory of Macedonia was Ancient Greek, but most Macedonians today would argue that he was in fact Macedonian and most history books in the Balkans consider him Macedonian.

I wish you might consider at least one of my requests: the native land where the dog can be found (Kosovo), and the Albanian name of the dog "Qeni i Sharrit" (Sharr, Albanian equivalent to Sar mountains).

Thank you for your time, take care. 185.200.214.29 (talk) 21:05, 11 May 2018 (UTC)Christian.

Native regions of the species

This wiki Article claims that the species of dog are native to Serbia and Macedonia, which is correct however you do not seems to mention Kosovo or Albania where they are also native. This is not coming from a nationalist view however i believe it would be right to claim this on your article, also with the nicknames there are many albanian nicknames of the species too, including: Deltari Ilir, Qeni i Sharrit. In my opinion i think you have purposely removed them and you are coming from a nationalist viewpoint, this should not be tolerated in the site. I am not here to have political arguement but you should understand that lying is not of any help, thanks. Eduartillyrian (talk) 13:57, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@Eduartillyrian: Please, provide WP:sources and we will happily include information into the article. Vanjagenije (talk) 15:11, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Naming

I have been attempting to change the name to the English spelling which is Sh as English readers do not know how to read an Š. Can someone explain why my changes keep getting reverted? Vepton (talk) 13:49, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

@Vepton: You have tried multiple times to change "Šar mountains" into "Sharr mountains" throughout this article ([3][4]). But, the title of the corresponding article is "Šar Mountains", not "Sharr Mountains". We have to keep consistency with the title of the corresponding article. So, your question should be directed at Talk:Šar Mountains, and not here. Vanjagenije (talk) 15:08, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

@Vanjagenije: I've changed it there as well and it has been reversed. Vepton (talk) 18:31, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

@Vepton: No, actually, you didn't change the title of the Šar Mountains article. You just changed the wording in the article ([5]) without changing the title. Text in the article should normally follow the title of the article to avoid confusion, so your edit was reverted. Change of the title needs a WP:move request and consensus. Last attempt to changed the title in 2014 has failed (see Talk:Šar_Mountains#Requested_move). Vanjagenije (talk) 22:27, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

@Vanjagenije: Check the August 6th edit I made. It was a move. This is besides the point. It is difficult fathom why the English Wikipedia is littered with non English article titles. Very unprofessional.Vepton (talk) 21:42, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Height

Sarplaninac is bigger dog real height is from 67 - 81 male! AlabaiKing (talk) 12:01, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 February 2019

History of breed - Sarplaninac and the Legions of Alexander the Great Kondor86 (talk) 21:55, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 22:43, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

While what the source is claiming is pretty much laughable, it can still be probably implemented in the article as there is a statement that is conveying a similar theory. Although, it does look like it suffers from being a blog, so it's implementation is best avoided Beat of the tapan (talk) 02:01, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 January 2019

46.99.32.76 (talk) 13:47, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

This is not serbian or macedonian dog,the name of dog is Illyrian shepherd and its pure albanian dog. The origin of this dog has from Illyria which is a desecent of albania

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 17:20, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Albania is not Iliria . First you need to check haplogroups of Albanian people and you will realise that . Iliria is just Roman name for province ,not name of some people's group . Why Saeplaninac was called Ilirian Shepherd in past (at beginning of modern breeding ) is a subject to another theme. You need to forget your internal Albanian propaganda here on Wiki . First check what's your haplogroup ,than you will realise that propaganda is just for low lige people. Text in article is ok right now. PakleniVuk (talk) 23:27, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Please, refrain from pointless POV pushing. ArbDardh (talk) 14:49, 25 December 2019 (UTC)ArbDardh

Semi-protected edit request on 27 December 2019

Change: However, these great dogs existed in the Balkans long before the Illyrian connection, so even that name is technically incorrect and would be more accurate if applied strictly to the Bosnian dogs and not to the Šarplaninac anyway.
To: However, these great dogs existed in the Balkans long before the Illyrian connection.

• Either cite evidence somehow proving Bosnian dogs with the illyrian connection, or keep your ethnic propaganda out of wikipedia. TrynaFixStuff (talk) 20:44, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

 Done. In the future, please, wp:assume good faith and do not make inflammable posts like this one. You can state your request in neutral way. Vanjagenije (talk) 15:13, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

How can it Kosovo dog origin?

Kosovo is an unrecognized state and still isn't recognized by the majority of the world and the U.N So to say that it originated in Kosovo would be creating false information and misleading instead a more accurate and none bias way of saying its orgin would be The southern autonomous province of serbia Kosovo and Metohija and i was already fact checked by 23,000 other people before i published this also its against wikipedia's policy to spread misinformation just so your aware Kingxx3 (talk) 07:07, 6 January 2021 (UTC)