Talk:...And Justice for All (album)/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Et3rnal (talk · contribs) 22:35, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello, feel free to leave a response below my comments with something like  Done to show you've addressed the issue(s). Or, if you're not sure about a certain comment, don't hesitate to leave a question. Et3rnal

I've done the review now, so I'll come back in a few days to see the progress. Placed on hold for 7 days. Et3rnal 00:19, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Links

• Tool server has found a dead link.

Background

• "but the process was interrupted with a smattering of lucrative festival dates" – this sounds WP:NPOVish, and should be written in a more neutral and encyclopedic format. Instead of the current version, replace "smattering of lucrative" with something simple like "a substantial number of". Instead of reiterating the same point, I'll just quote the line that I think isn't writen in a neutral point-of-view and suggest a more adequate one throughout this review.

• "preventing" → should be "that prevented", past tense.

• "Hooker offered them significantly bigger deal" – replace "significantly" with "a", as it's straying into WP:NPOV, and should have an "a" anyway.

• "quoting" → replace with "saying", as Hook isn't quoting anyone, it's his quote.

• The last line sort of comes out of nowhere, from who did Hooker receive a negative response from for the investment.

I replaced "defended" with "explained", think that should do it.

 Done The other issues from this section are fulfilled.

Production and recording

• "Rasmussen heard the demos" – Did he hear Clink's demos? Also could you elaborate on why he got fired.

 Done I've found this link, which fairly describes the recording process. Incorporated the Hetfield quote about why Clink had left.

Music

• "The album is noted for its dry, sterile production." – This is written as if it's a universal view-point on the album's music, even though it's only suggested by Allmusic. Also, Allmusic only mention it as "dry", and so it's drifting into more WP:NPOV, in that you're including undue weight. I've modified it so it's quoted by Allmusic. Generally speaking though, this section is pretty well written.

Lyrics

• "Many of the songs raise issues that are well beyond the violent retaliation of "Damage Inc." Concerns about environment ("Blackened"), corruption ("...And Justice for All"), and blacklisting and discrimination ("Shortest Straw") are emphasized with traditional existential themes. Death still lurks around every corner, as do worries about the ways in which institutions lead us to inauthentic lives." – This section is very well thought out, but the first sentence in bold doesn't really make much sense on its own, and so could be omitted. For the second sentence in bold, you could place quotes around it, if it's quoted in the supporting reference, instead of re-writing it all and to avoid WP:PLAGIARISM.

I believe we can put "their previous releases" instead of "Damage Inc." (song from previous album Master of Puppets)

 Done As for the second sentence, I cited the author and the book which contains the quote.

Commercial performance

• I think this section could be expanded a bit, to include information about charts and sales outside of the United States. Try looking at some GA or FA articles to gain an idea of how to write an in depth commercial performance section.

 Done (partially) I've expanded this section with a few sentences, but it's hard to find numbers for sales outside US. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Вик Ретлхед (talk • contribs) 10:02, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

• • For international charts, you can just give a brief summary on how it performed on charts it was most successful on outside of the US. Using the sites owned by Hung Medien (so the sources linked to each charting position), you can find information on when the album charted, how long it charted, whether it re-entered the charts ect. You don't have to find sales, though its worldwide sales would be a nice addition. I usually write a concise commentary on how the album performed, but there's loads of GAs and FAs that write excellent commercial performance sections. I'd recommend looking at GA or FA album articles that were released around the same time as this album for a good idea.

I found an information on this forum about the worldwide sales. It says it reports numbers from Billboard Magazine: 300 Best Selling Albums (Worldwide), but I can't find the original publishing. See No. 168 (13,400,000 worldwide) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Вик Ретлхед (talk • contribs) 16:39, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Forums are a BIG no no when it comes to reliable sources, per WP:UGC, as it falls under the umbrella of self-published sources. As the page states "self-published media—whether books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, personal pages on social networking sites, Internet forum postings, or tweets—are largely not acceptable". Blogs are also deemed as unreliable, per WP:NEWSBLOG, though exceptions are given if the blog is hosted by a professional journalist(s). If you can't find a source stating how much the album sold worldwide then just leave it, it doesn't matter.

I see you've added some info to the commercial performance, I'll let you continue expanding it, unless you've finished. Et3rnal 17:58, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Didn't mean to put that into the article, I just thought we can try to find the original Billboard publishing. Mentioned that forum as a clue that can help in the search for a RS.

Ahh I understand, well I've tried manipulating Google search but haven't found the magazine or any reliable source with the album's worldwide figures. Might as well drop the search.

 Done Well, if that short paragraph meets the required expansion, I guess that would be that.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 21:58, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

 Not done Two extra lines (which isn't really a paragraph), not supported by any references isn't really gonna do; it should be between 4–5 lines. I'm not sure whether you actually took my advice on using other GAs and FAs as references for expanding the section. I should also mention, using words like "decent" should be avoided, as it's too colloquial.

Thanks for the advice, I looked at some George Harrison albums and think I can craft it a little more. But I have a question: How to avoid repeating the references about the certifications? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Вик Ретлхед (talk • contribs) 09:59, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

In the certification table you can insert "certref=" and then put in a reference to the certification, like I've just done now. I re-arranged the wording and added in a bit more, but if you want to flesh it out even more then feel free to do so. Unless you're finished just let me know.

Actually, I think all the issues have been addressed now. So unless you have some extra content to add in or any changed to make, then I think it's done. Et3rnal 12:29, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for re-building that section, it looks way better now. If all topics are done, I think you can close out this review.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 13:04, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Live performances

• I've done some copy-editing, as well merging the lines, as personally I think fragmenting sentences like that look bad. I've also removed some original research, material not supported by a reference.

Awards and nominations

• This entire section lacks sources. If you can't find any references for it, then you'll have to remove it.

 Done Found references.

References

• I've gone through the references and have formatted them. You should avoid WP:SHOUT and writing the dates in the 'work' parameter. Always format magazine or newspaper sources as italics, so write them in the 'work' field. Checkout Wikipedia:Citing sources for more information.

Most of the issues have been addressed. It's just the commercial performance section which needs a slight expansion. Et3rnal 14:05, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

It's done then, congrats on your first GA. Et3rnal 13:18, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.