Talk:185th Infantry Regiment (United States)

Wikilink

Why was this content readded? How is it that Coats of arms of U.S. Infantry Regiments is connected to this subject? Other than the subject has an approved Coat of Arms? If this is the case should each biography article have a wikilink to skin as each person has skin?--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 23:37, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

User:Brian_in_denver has been adding a series of these links all over the place, as well as completely unnecessary recopying out of lineage, campaigns, etc details freely available on U.S. Army sites, when we should be adding value, not copying other websites (even if it is PD). Recommend that the Coats of arms links are removed. Buckshot06 (talk) 10:11, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Why is Coats of arms of U.S. Infantry Regiments a rated article in the first place? It should be rated as a list, if anything (and probably retitled appropriately). --Lineagegeek (talk) 03:23, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

No, it should be at Wikimedia Commons. I did the field armies and the corps but the others have not done. Buckshot06 (talk) 05:53, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I've just done the appropriate AfD for corps at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Corps insignia of the United States Army. Buckshot06 (talk) 19:48, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Infobox

How did the regiment earn credit for participation in:

• Normandy
• Northern France
• Rhineland
• Ardennes-Alsace
• Central Europe

While it was in the Pacific? Hawkeye7 (talk) 00:19, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Check the appendix to the doco in FN 3. Maybe the artillery battalion mentioned went to Europe. Buckshot06 (talk) 10:14, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Yup, that's it. I've verified that the 980th FA Bn did serve in these campaigns. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:48, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Out of date

There must be a second battalion of this regiment, if 1/185 still belongs to 100th Troop Command, as 185th Armor Regiment was redesignated as 185th Infantry according to this facebook post by the California National Guard. Now Facebook is not a reliable source but I am not finding any other reliable sources that verify this reflagging.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 02:22, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

1-185th Armor is attached to the 81st SBCT according to the https://www.mil.wa.gov/national-guard/army-guard/81st-brigade/1-185th-armor-regiment Washington Military Department website]. The Washington website is wrong, however - this CA NG Facebook post explicitly states that 1-185 Armor was reflagged as 1-185 Infantry (Stryker) to become part of the 81st Brigade in 2016. Reflagging indirectly confirmed by this Army press release. The question is now what happened to the original 1-185 Infantry? It is possible that the former 1-185 Armor is now subordinated to both the 81st Brigade (out of state) and the 100th TC in state. Kges1901 (talk) 10:34, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

@Kges1901:, my understanding is that 185th Infantry was under 100th Troop Command, until at least their deployment in 2008. After that I am unable to find any reliable sources about the unit, or for that matter (other than the facebook post) when the 185th Armor was reflagged as 185th Infantry. I will attempt to contact the California National Guard for more information.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 16:14, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Kges is probably right; for state ARNG administrative purposes, 1-185 might well report to 100 TC (CA ARNG), but it's operational mobilisation assignment would be with the 81st Brigade (WA ARNG). The facebook page for the 1-185 AR hasn't been updated since 2013. Buckshot06 (talk) 21:15, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

@Kges1901 and Buckshot06: I have received a response from the California State Military Museum regarding my inquiry:

Good afternoon:

Thank you for your inquiry concerning the designation of the 185th Infantry Regiment. As you may know, regimental designations are based on the regimental area laid out in the 1939 edition of the National Guard Register. When the Combat Arms Regimental System was implemented in the Army National Guard in 1962, many of the separate tank battalions in the area of the former 185th Infantry Regiment were organized into the 185th Armor Regiment.
Fast forward to the to the 21st century when California was tasked to raise a new infantry battalion within the 185th's regimental area. While designating this new unit as 1st Battalion, 185th Infantry Regiment was not the most elegant solution, any other option would have required the re-designation of the armor regiment.
All of this has been rendered moot with the reorganization of the 185th back into infantry regiment. I have not seen the latest lineage and honors certificate for the redesignated regiment, but will provide you a summary when I do.
Regards,
Daniel M. Sebby
Sergeant Major, CSMR
Military Historian and Curator, California Military Department

Mobile (916) 768-4249

daniel.m.sebby@smr.ca.gov
www.militarymuseum.org

2814 B Street

Sacramento, California 95816

Therefore, I think we can, utilizing the facebook link, use that as a reliable source to show that that 1/185 Armor was redesignated as 1/185 Infantry in 2013.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 23:11, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

The Facebook link is definitely a reliable source for the 2016 redesignation, but then what happened to the previous 1-185th Infantry? If necessary I can email CMH. Kges1901 (talk) 23:39, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks both of you. RightCowLeftCoast, would you consider e-mailing Sergeant Major Sebby again, for the most current details on the former, previous 1-185 Infantry, and the alignment of the current 1-185 Inf - is it 100 TC and 81 SBCT? If so, what is the current full composition of 81 SBCT as well? Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 23:44, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

I have emailed the Sergeant Major with that question, and will provide their reply here as soon as I receive it.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 00:04, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

The CMH ARNG historian that I emailed wrote that the 185th Infantry (former) "left the force" in 2008, which would match up with the end of news coverage. I presume this means it disbanded. The 185th Infantry that now exists, the former 185th Armor, inherits the rest of the 185th Armor lineage, so there is no lineage connection now. Kges1901 (talk) 22:38, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

For lineage purposes, disbanded and deactivated matter a lot. I guess we have to wait to see what CMH produces as far as lineage documents are concerned.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 01:46, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

CMH emailed back, 185th Armor was "converted and redesignated as 185th Infantry Regiment". So 185th Infantry (first lineage) is now presumably disbanded, meaning that there are now two separate unrelated 185th Infantry lineages. Kges1901 (talk) 17:27, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

@Kges1901: Can we get confirmation that the Sixth California was disbanded and not just deactivated, and its colors retired for later usage? Disbanding a unit means the end of a lineage and thus the death of a regimental history. I see the sentence "The regiment was disbanded in 2008." is not cited.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 00:19, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

@RightCowLeftCoast: I can't get anything verifiable out of CMH because apparently the relevant documents are stored at NGB, but "left the force" and "lineage not perpetuated in any current national guard unit" sound like a disbandment to me. If the regiment was only inactivated then the current 185th Infantry lineage wouldn't make since since two units with the same designation can't be on the rolls at the same time. You'll probably be able to get better info from California State Military Museum at your end of the country, I'd expect that the disbandment of the 1-185 Inf would be locally significant. Kges1901 (talk) 00:25, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Great work Kges1901 but this is far too patchy for us to update the site on. Can you ask for CMH for an appropriate contact at NGB? We really need an updated document of some kind, that we can upload via OTRS, to do this properly.. Buckshot06 (talk) 08:05, 23 March 2018 (UTC)