Talk:1904 University of Florida Blue and White football team

Whoah!

@MisterCake: The historical basis for creating this season article is shaky. The "University of Florida" that existed in Lake City is not the modern University of Florida that was formed by the state legislature in the summer of 1905. The "University of Florida" that existed for two years (1903-1905) was the renamed Florida Agricultural College, one of the four predecessor institutions of the modern University of Florida (and known as the "University of the State of Florida" from 1905 to 1909). I think you're aware of this history, Cake, but the existence of this article and its present text serve to support the claims of the University of Georgia (and one or two others) that the modern University of Florida fielded varsity football teams before 1906; it did not, and the complicated formation history of the modern university and tortured use of the name "University of Florida" before 1905 (the West Florida Seminary, FSU's primary predecessor, was officially designated the "University of Florida" until 1903). Also, I have never seen any conclusive evidence that the FAC/UFLC teams were referred to as the "Blue and White"; as presently written, this article has numerous problems, starting with verified reliable sources for its title. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:43, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

And the template you have created for future article creation is also seriously misleading: the college's name was Florida Agricultural College in 1900, 1901 and 1902. The 1905 team would have been the first varsity football team of the modern University of Florida, but president Andrew Sledd canceled the season because a significant number of the players did not meet academic requirements. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:50, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Completely right about not having the oldest years as FAC - oops. I would say the article might need to be moved; I did my best to place it correctly, but it's a season article like any other, so don't see any historical basis as shaky. As UGA points out, Alabama and Georgia Tech count those games too. Further, just for "college football in Florida sake" - FAC is really where to trace UF-before-UF (there's an 1899 FAC team pic), and state titles were always between them, Stetson, and West Florida Seminary/FSC. It's possible the article shouldn't have a nickname, but those were the colors, and I see them referred to as such. It's certainly not a finished product. Cake (talk) 13:55, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, Stetson is/was green and white, Lake City is blue and white (some say blue and gold, though), East Florida Seminary is orange and black, and West Florida Seminary is purple and gold. Pretty typical way to name a ball club before they got a name. I also made this seeing that Hughes had the FSU navbox on his page but wasn't in it. Cake (talk) 14:01, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Cake, I wrote the history text in main Florida Gators article. State titles were mythical; there was no league or conference. The FAC/UFLC and EFS football teams were closer to modern club teams than anything formally sanctioned by the schools. The school colors were never established as anything like an accepted nickname. Georgia claims what Georgia claims, without understanding or accepting the legal niceties of what the Florida legislature did in 1905: it legally abolished FAC/UFLC, EFS and two other predecessor institutions by the Buckman Act in 1905, and re-allocated all of their property and academic programs to the newly created University of the State of Florida. The president and faculty of FAC/UFLC had to re-apply for their jobs, and most of the assets of EFS and the schools in Bartow and St. Pete were liquidated. The Lake City campus was liquidated after the new University of the State of Florida moved to the new Gainesville campus in August 1906, and another college functioned there for a number of years. What would have been the first football season for the modern university, the 1905 season, was canceled by Sledd. The modern university claimed 1905 as its founding date until John Tigert and the state attorney general re-jiggered that in the 1930s, in order to claim the 1853 "founding" date of the East Florida Seminary. That's a lot of complicated non-football legal/corporate/organizational history to explain in a CFB season article. This really needs to be folded into the main Florida Gators football article. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:24, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

All titles were mythical and regional even if you had a conference, confined to state champions during the early days of the sport in all the states. Mythical titles usually means those which aren't decided on the field by championship game or tournament, at least I though. I understand the problems with Georgia's claims - hence this is a separate team article; doesn't take away from it being an intercollegiate season article like any other, on top of the fact that this is the first team from the state of Florida to play major college football outside the state against multiple teams, with at least 3 teams counting it as a game - not saying as a Gator game. It seemed like the various seasons needed a space (FSC and FAC get confused in Georgia Tech stuff under a florida something), but I will defer to your judgment. Cake (talk) 14:33, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I am afraid getting me to stuff all that into the intro will have this look like trying to cut my own hair - the more edits the worse. But I did try to get the information there even if it's in a foreign order since I guess this article should be on the chopping block. Cake (talk) 15:34, 11 September 2015 (UTC)