Talk:1934 college football season

Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

• http://www.appollarchive.com/football/ap/research/1934-11-15_poll.cfm
  • In 1926 college football season on 2011-05-25 02:56:01, 404 Not Found
  • In 1926 college football season on 2011-06-02 03:27:53, 404 Not Found
  • In 1932 college football season on 2011-06-02 12:10:59, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 12:20, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 2

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

• http://www.appollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?seasonid=1936
  • In 1926 college football season on 2011-05-25 02:56:01, 404 Not Found
  • In 1926 college football season on 2011-06-02 03:27:50, 404 Not Found
  • In 1932 college football season on 2011-06-02 12:11:11, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 12:20, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090417072610/http://www.appollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?seasonid=1936 to http://www.appollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?seasonid=1936

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Page too big

More specifically, there are too many "expensive parser function" calls.

The problem is the call to {{cfb link}}. The recent conference additions pushed the page over the limit of 500.

The most straightforward and future-proof, er, future-resistant way to deal with this is to split the minor conference and minor conference standings off to a new page. The "minor conferences" section of the new page can be transcluded as a section into the current article so there aren't two copies.

There are other options, such as rewriting {{cfb link}} or creating "1934 ... football team" redirects and/or creating "... football" redirects for the very few schools that do not have them. I think we only need to do this for a handful to get the page down under 500 expensive parser functions, but it would leave the page very close to or at the limit if we only did "just enough" of this work.

My recommendation is to split the article, but I'm open for discussion. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 16:18, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

@Cbl62: or maybe be we can stub out some of the 1934 articles? Jweiss11 (talk) 21:52, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Your suggestion is to create stub articles for enough of the "Cfb link" items to bring us below the limit of 500? If so, how many would need to be created? Cbl62 (talk) 23:12, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

BTW, what are the criteria used to divide the 1934 page into "major" and "minor" conferences? The NCAA page (here) doesn't recognized a "major" distinction until 1934? Cbl62 (talk) 23:20, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Not sure how far over the limit we are. Looks likes all the cfb links are rendering to me. davidwr, can you shed some light on that? Cbl, on your other point, the criteria to divide "major" and "minor" conferences is just my judgement and that of other editors. You'll notice that the season articles up thru 1955 have a table summarizing the "minor conference" champions. I think Wmtribe2015 is largely responsible for introducing those. As I've built out a large number of standings templates in recent months, I've largely followed what's been established as "minor" in those tables, while leaving obvious forerunners of present-day FBS conferences/teams as "major". It's been on my to-do list for a while to discuss this organization with other editors, particularly you. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:22, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

I did create 1934 Whittier Poets football team, eliminating one such link. Richard Nixon was a member of the 1932 and 1933 teams which are on my "to do" list. As for the unsourced major/minor division, seems like WP:OR. Maybe consider a Northeast, Midwest, South, and West regional breakdown for the standings templates? Cbl62 (talk) 02:50, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

I've tried a regional breakdown. Cbl62 (talk) 03:09, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

The Expensive parser function count is now at 499/500, so we are just below the limit. You can check the current usage by editing the entire page and expanding the "parser profiling data" that's right below the edit area and preview/save buttons. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 02:46, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

We are back over the limit again, at 514/500. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 16:17, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Honestly, I reckon it would make more sense just to pre-emptively create a bunch of redirects for each team season, point them to the most appropriate page, and tag them with {{R avoided double redirect}} and {{R with possibilities}}. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 22:13, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

We've generally avoided that practice at it would flood navboxes like Template:Western Carolina Catamounts football navbox with redirects and make it more difficult to discern which seasons are still missing articles. The best solution here is to stub out some more season articles. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:47, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

The best solution is to change the software so specific pages like this are allowed to exceed the limits with administrator approval. The best practical solution is to split the page, alphabetically, by region, school size (the equivalent to today's NCAA Divisions), or perhaps by existing/defunct conferences. Alphabetically by conference name or if applicable, school size is probably the most straightforward. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 13:10, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

@Davidwr: Your best solution appears to make the most sense. How would one go about doing that? Cbl62 (talk) 13:23, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

davidwr, I agree with your "best" solution. Disagree on the "best practical" solution. Breaking up the page opens up a can of worms. We still need an article that addresses the college football season as a whole. Perhaps we just move the standings tables to regional subpages? Still, the best practical solution is to stub out more team season articles. That's what we intend to do eventually anyway. Cbl62, can we get you rolling on that again? Jweiss11 (talk) 13:27, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

@Jweiss11: Not sure how many of the templated teams would warrant stand-alone season articles. Did you have particular teams in mind? Cbl62 (talk) 14:26, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

@Jweiss11: Splitting off just the standings to 2 or more sub-pages would work. I tried doing it as a single sub-page but it's still at 517 expensive parser functions, which is over 500. The Midwestern is the big one, coming in at 271. If we do that, the major conference championships will need to be listed in tables like the "Minor conference championship" table or similar tables created for them. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 14:41, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Hatnote added to the article: {{hatnote|Due to technical limitations, some conference standings tables may not display correctly. To view a particular conference, use the "v" link in the upper left corner of that conference's table. <small>([[Talk:1934_college_football_season#Page_too_big|discuss]])</small><!-- remove this hatnote when the problem is resolved for good -->}}

At least now readers unfamiliar with Wikipedia will have a "work-around." Hopefully, this hatnote can be removed as "no longer needed" within a few weeks if not days. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 15:23, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Cbl62, I just created 1934 Chattanooga Moccasins football team. Any of the teams that now play at the Division I level seem ripe for creation: Howard (AL), Mercer, Miami (OH), Butler, Indiana State, Valparaiso, SE Missouri State, SW Missouri St, Western Illinois, Illinois State, Eastern Illinois, Morgan, North Carolina A&T, Hampton, North Carolina College, Howard, North Texas State, Sam Houston State, Stephen F. Austin, Southwest Texas State, Elon, Western Carolina, Presbyterian, VMI, Western Kentucky, Murray State, Louisiana Normal, Mississippi State Teachers, SW Louisiana, Middle Tennessee, Tennessee Tech, Eastern Kentucky, Stetson, Morehead State, Southern, Prairie View State, Abilene Christian, Arizona State–Flagstaff, Colorado Teachers. Or any of the conference champs or undefeated seasons. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:00, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

@Davidwr: I created a 8 new 1934 team season articles and Cbl62 created 1. All the cfb links on this article appear to be rendering properly. Are we still over the 500 limit? How do you check that count? Jweiss11 (talk) 21:16, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Jweiss11: we are right at 500 of 500. Thank you and thank Cbl62 for getting us down that far. There are two ways to check this information: Edit the PAGE - not just a section - and look for "parser profiling data" below the edit box. Click to "expand" it. It shows all kinds of useful information. The other way is to use your web browser's "view source" option then search for "NewPP limit report". It will be near the bottom, inside an HTML comment. I'm leaving the hatnote up since we are right at the limit. I would be much more comfortable if it stayed up until either we know the page won't add more conferences, or until we are far enough down below the limit that even if it does add more conferences it won't break again. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 21:35, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

We're at 494 now. There are still a few missing conference standings tables that could be added as well as independent teams that could be added to the independent tables. The other seasons between 1900 or so and 1955 are in jeopardy of eventually ending up in a similar place. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:10, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

With the latest conference addition, we are over the limit again. From the page source: Expensive parser function count: 514/500. Creating 7 "year" articles and replacing the template with a direct link should get this back to 500. I recommend trying to find about 20 so this doesn't happen the next time a conference is added. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 17:44, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Yep, I saw that this would happen when I added Template:1934 South Dakota Intercollegiate Conference football standings. Why does the count increase by two for each call of cfb link? Jweiss11 (talk) 20:31, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Each check for the existence of a file counts one time. If the "year of" page exists, that counts once. That's why we don't use the template at all if the page exists, "0" is better than "1." If the "year of" page doesn't exist, then it checks for the "football team" page. In the recently-added conference, all of those existed, so it stopped there. There were no "year" pages. That's why it is "2 per team" for that conference. If there was no "football team" page then it does additional checks, with a "cost" of one per check. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 20:42, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Should championship, perfect, and nearly-perfect seasons have stand-alone articles?

Granted, having a perfect season doesn't make the season wiki-notable. Having a perfect season and winning a conference championship doesn't. But it's a good place to start.

Here are teams with perfect seasons that do not have stand-alone articles (teams with redirects are not listed, I was in a hurry):

• Trinity (CT) -- 1934 Trinity Bantams football team (Eastern college football independents)
• Augusta (IL) -- 1934 Augustana (Illinois) Vikings football team (Illinois Intercollegiate Athletic Conference)
• Kirksville State -- 1934 Kirksville State Bulldogs football team (Missouri Intercollegiate Athletic Association)
• Birmingham–Southern -- 1934 Birmingham–Southern Panthers football team (Dixie Conference)
• East Texas State -- 1934 East Texas State Lions football team (Lone Star Conference)

If you add x-0-1, x-1-0, and x-0-2 teams and the teams ranking higher than them in the standings, you'll get 10-15 more. If you add in the conference champions, there will be still more.

I didn't check redirects, there may be opportunities to create pages from those as well.

While inspired by the expensive parser function discussion above, this suggestion needs to be looked at on its own merits. It may be that only some of these teams' seasons meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines. If so, then just create pages for those seasons. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 15:09, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

• After doing a Newspapers.com search to confirm GNG-level coverage, I did start an article for the undefeated 1934 Trinity Hilltoppers football team. Cbl62 (talk) 23:44, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

General problem of YYYY college football season and 500-limit for expensive parser functions

I've opened a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#Currently-incomplete YYYY college football season risk exceeding expensive parser function limits to address the general issue. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 14:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)