Talk:1943 Australian federal election

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Malinda Angelina Ivey

Wanting to create a stub for her, I was basing it on http://www.womenaustralia.info/biogs/AWE1857b.htm but it didnt mention she actually gained office. I looked at http://www.aph.gov.au/library/handbook/historical/representatives/heitmann.king.htm and I can't seem to find an Ivey... any ideas? Timeshift 10:06, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Country National Liberal parties

Since these don't have articles, can anyone explain the multiple Country parties in the table? Timrollpickering (talk) 10:33, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Not honestly sure. QLD didn't have two country parties at state level at the time (see Members of the Queensland Legislative Assembly, 1941–1944) - the QPP was a forerunner to the Liberals founded by the Brisbane Mayor (Chandler) and the UAP was the main Liberal party until the 1944 elections) and I don't know of any situation in Victoria. Orderinchaos 12:11, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure either - and Psephos actually doesn't list these other parties but counts them all under "Country Party", which is perhaps an alternative choice. Frickeg (talk) 05:04, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

The UWA elections site does separate them out, so I imagine there is a reason for doing so, just not completely sure *what* reason. I have to go to my uni later this week sometime and they have the 1943 QLD Year Book on shelf so I'll have a look there and try to resolve at least that one. Orderinchaos 05:16, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I've had a look and whilst I can't find the full details it seems there were a number of splits in the Queensland Country Party around this time:

http://primeministers.naa.gov.au/meetpm.asp?pmId=13&pageName=before

Prime Minister Robert Menzies left for London on 24 January 1941, and Fadden was acting Prime Minister until May. During this time, Fadden was confirmed as leader of the parliamentary Country Party on 12 March 1941. He began moves to amalgamate Country Party and United Australia Party parliamentarians, but the Queensland Country Party strongly opposed this.

http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A140134b.htm

Fadden's withdrawal from the Federal parliamentary Country Party in 1939 had unsettled members of the Queensland organization. They were outraged when, on 27 April 1941, he convened a secret meeting in Brisbane of Queensland Federal and State Country Party and U.A.P. parliamentarians which saw the amalgamation of the two parties as the short-lived Country National Organization. Fadden had ostensibly sought to lay the foundations for a national wartime government. When no other State Country Party branch followed his lead and the A.L.P. continued to rebuff overtures to enter a national government, the Queensland central council of the Country Party took a jaundiced view of his motives. It believed 'that Fadden had formed the C.N.O. in pursuit of his goal to eventually become Prime Minister, leading an Australia-wide anti-labor party'. L. A. G. Boyce warned that 'it may be that, as an election approaches, he will desire to give colour to his claim to be a Country Party man, but if the Queensland Country Party wishes to continue to exist on the basis on which it was formed, it appears to me that there is not room in it for Mr Fadden'. Doubts persisted as to the extent to which he was committed to the interests of country people.

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/historical/documents/OppositionLeaders.pdf

[Country National Party] Not to be confused with the Country and Progressive National Party, which ceased to exist on 6 April 1936. This particular Country-National Party was formed in April 1941, when parliamentary members of the Country Party, without the consent of the Country Party organisation, joined with members of the National Party to create a working coalition in the Parliament. However, on 8 April 1941, a Country Party conference voted to continue as a separate organisation and repudiated the previous fusion.

(Despite this the list of Queensland Opposition Leaders there, and our own Leader of the Opposition (Queensland), lists Frank Nicklin as a Country-National leader until October 1945, then a Country one thereafter.

Frank Nicklin

In 1941 the opposition suffered another severe defeat, with Labor winning forty-one seats to the Country Party's fourteen and the United Australia Party's four. After the election, the two non-Labor parties decided to merge. Opposition leader E. B. Maher stood down, and Nicklin was elected as a new leader for the new party. The merger failed after only a few months, but Nicklin remained as head of a Country Party-UAP coalition.

My best guess from all this is that either the Country Party in Queensland carried on using the "unity" name despite the failure of fusion, even using it for federal elections (similarly in South Australia the various pages are unclear whether the Coalition Senate candidates were fighting as UAP or LCL) and someone's got the names confused. Members of the Australian House of Representatives, 1943–1946 lists 10 Country members which is the sum of what the table has for "Country Party" and "Country-National Party (QLD)". "Country Party (QLD)" may have been a maverick grouping who had split over various Coalition issues and kept going because of personalities.

At some point we need to get the list of members synced to the election figures here - I can't find any renegade Country or Independent member from Queensland, whilst the UAP figures there and here are two out.

"Liberal Country Party (VIC)" is even harder to track but this bio of Jack McEwan says:

The Victorian Country Party remained at odds with its federal leadership, and had ruled that no member could join a coalition government. McEwen was expelled by his party at a tense branch meeting at Benalla in Victoria on 28 January 1938 and was not permitted to speak during the expulsion debate. A branch member not constrained from contributing to the debate, however, was Anne McEwen. At the annual meeting of the State party on 29 March 1938, McEwen’s expulsion was confirmed and remained in force for five years.

(I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that Fadden was also expelled from his state party.)

Again the best guess is that the "Liberal Country Party" was another group emerging from state divisions over the Coalition (and couldn't foresee what the name implies!). But it's not clear who which member was elected under their banner. Timrollpickering (talk) 14:49, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Fadden and Bernard Corser resigned from the Country Party in 1939 after leader Earle Page attacked Prime Minister Menzies in parliament. Thomas Collins and Albert Badman ceased attending meetings while Page was leader. After a party meeting from which these four were excluded, Archie Cameron became the new leader; the rebels were soon reabsorbed. Perhaps this has something to do with it. I rather suspect that many of these headings had more to do with state-based splits than federal members. It's also worth examining Alexander Wilson's party status, which is something I've been unable to comprehensively do. Frickeg (talk) 23:43, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Years later but there's now a Country-National Organisation article. It seems the 1943 federal election was its only outing at the polls which is probably why it's been such an obscure topic. In summary this was a brief merger driven by parliamentarians but opposed by the external Country Party organisation and was eventually split before the next state election, whilst a separate "Queensland Country Party" (a very confusing name) tried to maintain independence. It would seem the four Coalition MPs from Queensland break down as three nominated & backed by the CNO, with two sitting in the Country Party (including Fadden and, probably, Bernard Corser) and one in the UAP (Josiah Francis) and one from the dissident Queensland Country Party (probably Charles Adermann) but with Adermann seemingly sitting in the same party room.

In summary - the different state Country Parties took some very different approaches to the Coalition, leading to the federal members being elected with a variety of different labels and local apparatuses. Timrollpickering 22:09, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

And since some of the tables and sources are at variance, here's the best attempt to sort this all out. Psephos gives us 49 Labor, 14 UAP, 9 Country, 2 Independents. UWA gives us 49 Labor, 12 UAP, 7 Country, 3 Country National, 1 Queensland Country, 1 Liberal Country, 1 Independent. However the picture is a little different when looking at individual states:

NSW

UWA: 21 Labor, 4 UAP, 3 Country

Psephos: 21 Labor, 4 UAP, 3 Country

Vic

UWA: 9 Labor, 6 UAP, 4 Country, 1 Independent

Psephos: 9 Labor, 6 UAP, 3 Country, 2 Others

Qld

UWA: 6 Labor, 3 Country National, 1 Queensland Country

Psephos: 6 Labor, 3 Country, 1 UAP

WA

UWA: 5 Labor

Psephos: 5 Labor

SA

UWA: 5 Labor, 1 "Liberal & Country League (United Australia Party)"

Psephos: 5 Labor, 1 UAP

TAS

UWA: 3 Labor, 2 UAP

Psephos: 3 Labor, 2 UAP

(The ACT had no representation at the time. The Northern Territory member had limited voting rights and is absent in both totals.)

Total

UWA: 49 Labor, 12 UAP, 7 Country, 3 Country National, 1 Queensland Country, 1 Liberal & Country League (United Australia Party), 1 Independent

Psephos: 49 Labor, 14 UAP, 9 Country, 2 Independents

The differences would appear to be rooted in whether the local organisation or the party room the MP sat in is the determining factor. The problems are clearly the merged state parties in Queensland and South Australia sending members who could sit in either party room plus the divisions in the Country Party in Victoria and Queensland. The individual MPs affected are:

• Elected for Country Party (in Victoria), sitting in Country party room: George Bowden (Gippsland), George Rankin (Bendigo)
• Elected for Country Party (in Victoria), sitting as an Independent: Alexander Wilson (Wimmera) (X)
• Elected for Liberal Country Party or Victorian Country Party, sitting in Country Party room: John McEwen (Indi) (XX)
• Elected as an Independent, sitting as an Independent: Arthur Coles (Henty) (and also Adair Blain, Northern Territory, but not included in the totals)
• Elected for CNO, sitting in Country party room: Arthur Fadden (Darling Downs) and Bernard Corser (Wide Bay)
• Elected for Queensland Country Party, sitting in Country party room: Charles Adermann (Maranoa) [1]
• Elected for CNO, sitting in UAP party room: Josiah Francis (Moreton)
• Elected for Liberal & Country League, sitting in UAP party room: Archie Cameron (Barker). I'm guessing that the UWA national total has included him with the Country Party but he had left it three years earlier.

(X There's been some talk at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian politics/Archive 7#Alex Wilson and the messy state of the 1930s Country Party about Wilson's exact party status. The best comparison is Tony Crook - in both cases there wasn't a state Coalition operating at the time and this caused tension as the state and federal parties disagreed over where members should sit.)

(XX The Liberal Country Party was another product of this mess. McEwan took office in the federal Coalition despite the state Country Party being opposed and was expelled for five years in 1938; the Liberal Country Party was formed by pro Coalition supporters and both Country parties stood in both state & federal elections. In April 1943 the two parties agreed to merge, though in the June state election the LCP candidates were technically separate as the "Victorian Country Party". Presumably the sources are unclear as to how far the reunification had got by the election.)

Every Senate seat up was won by Labor. Again Psephos and UWA disagree about the Coalition tickets as follows:

Queensland. Psephos shows separate UAP and Country Party tickets. UWA has them as CNO and Queensland Country Party.

Western Australia. A joint ticket was run, called UAP/Country by Psephos and "Nationalist Country Party (United Australia Party)" by UWA.

South Australia. Psephos has UAP, UWA Liberal & Country League (UAP).

It's possible UWA has made mistakes but it's also possible the UAP collapse meant a greater reliance on the state conservative parties than before. Certainly in subsequent years it took a while for them to all come onboard as state Liberal divisions. Timrollpickering 20:38, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

House of reps

Can someone please add the graph of the seat distribution of the House of Representatives like there is for every other Australian election and put together a table like the other Australian elections. I know I’m demanding a lot but it really bugs me that this one is different to all the rest. AnAustralianHistoryBuff (talk) 12:38, 1 June 2022 (UTC)