Talk:1946 pacification of villages by PAS NZW
Latest comment: 1 month ago by 95.109.249.40 in topic This was massacre of Orthodox Belarusian population, not "pacification"
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Neutrality and title
editThis article should be renamed to be more concise and accurate. I agree that 1946 East Poland massacres would work. Swissarmysalad (talk) 17:51, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree. 1946 East Poland massacres would work. Pacification does not capture what happened. Villages could mean anything. PAS and NZW - avoid acronyms unless they are universal! Xcia0069 (talk) 13:59, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
The event is almost certainly notable, but the article may need some editing to bring it in line with NPOV guideline. Also the title problematic, we usually use neutral titles based on locations, not on who was the perpetrator. Based on neutral naming conventions, I'd suggest 1946 East Poland massacres. Thoughts? PS. Pl wiki has articles we need to TL, pl:Romuald Rajs, pl:Pacyfikacja wsi Zanie i Szpaki, pl:Mord w Puchałach Starych and pl:Zbrodnia w Zaleszanach. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:55, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
- The atrocities are a big ticket political propaganda item in the Belarusian press at present, nevertheless, the retaliatory actions by the PAS unit (Pogotowie Akcji Specjalnej) of the National Military Union (NZW) for the prior killings of their own men by the communist forces were real and need to be named properly. The NZW unit led by Romuald Rajs alias Bury entered the village of Zaleszany in search of the NKVD informer Lukasz Demianiuk, who remained in hiding. Nobody was shot by them, but the houses were burned, and 16 people died inside. The overwhelming majority of people who stepped outside when the fire was set to the houses, did not die. The killing of 30 ethnic Belarusians near Puchaly Stare by the Rajs' commando was also a retaliatory action.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSuNfLqz3Ik
- http://www.pch24.pl/kapitan-bury--historia-prawdziwa,41394,i.html
- http://www.bibula.com/?p=52644
- http://ipn.gov.pl/pl/dla-mediow/komunikaty/9989,Informacja-o-ustaleniach-koncowych-sledztwa-S-2802Zi-w-sprawie-pozbawienia-zycia.html
- This article is a POV nightmare. The crimes were committed in postwar Poland not in Belarus, during the Polish population transfers (1944–46) ending before August; in Zaleszany, Hajnówka County (... not in Zalesiany, Podlaskie Voivodeship), in Wólka Wygonowska and in Szpaki, Podlaskie Voivodeship ... and not in "Zalieshany", "Vyhanouskaja Volka", or "Shpaki". The atrocities were committed against the Belarusian minority in Poland. The description of Zaleszany atrocities is a lie, because those who died, hid inside other buildings. The IPN report is clear about that ... not a single person died (!) from the gathering of hostages in the house of Dymitr Sacharczuk.[1] Poeticbent talk 17:24, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
- ^ IPN (2005-06-30). "Informacja o ustaleniach końcowych śledztwa S 28/02/Zi w sprawie pozbawienia życia 79 osób – mieszkańców powiatu Bielsk Podlaski w tym 30 osób tzw. furmanów w lesie koło Puchał Starych, dokonanych w okresie od dnia 29 stycznia 1946 r. do dnia 2 lutego 1946". Komunikaty. Instytut Pamięci Narodowej.
- Thank you for identifying more issues. Any thoughts on the proposed renaming? If we need a disambig, we could also use 1946 East Poland massacres of Belorussians. PS. I stubbed Romuald Rajs for anyone interested in expanding it. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:21, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
It was North-East Poland or maybe Podlachia, East Poland included also a bigger area of Polish-Ukrainan conflict. Polish Wikipedia says pl:Powiat bielski (województwo podlaskie), Bielsk County is about current county only.Xx236 (talk) 09:39, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
The page isn't neutral
edit- The crimes weren't ethnic only, the Belarusians/Orthodox supported the Soviets, who terrorised and murdered Poles/Roman Catholics, see eg. Augustów roundup.
- The page describes crimes committed by a defined organization, commanded by Rajs, not by all Cursed soldiers. I believe that the title should be more specific.Xx236 (talk) 06:51, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
- The families of the victims of the massacre have not received any compensations. - who obtained compensations in Poland?Xx236 (talk) 06:55, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
- All references are Belarusian, the only Polish one is Gazeta Wyborcza, generally against cursed soldiers.Xx236 (talk) 06:59, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
- As mentioned above - the names of places aren't linked, probably due transliterated Belarusian names. It's good to know geography to discuss history of an area.Xx236 (talk) 07:08, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
- Rajs had nationalistic connections, which isn't explained, only Home Army is mentioned in the lead.Xx236 (talk) 07:09, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
This was massacre of Orthodox Belarusian population, not "pacification"
editIt is disrespect for victims of Polish ultranationalist massacres to name this page as "pacification". 95.109.249.40 (talk) 14:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC)