Talk:1952 Formula One season

Formula Two

This season the World championship was raced with F2 ! Ericd 21:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

After the retirement of Alfa Romeo from Formula One it had been hoped by the Championship organisers that the then-new BRM team would be competing that year with the Type 15 V16-powered car, however Raymond Mays withdrew the two cars just before a race at Turin as he was trying to get Fangio as a driver alongside Stirling Moss. This he eventually achieved, but unfortunately this meant withdrawing the cars, and this left the GP organisers with no-one but Ferrari as potential winners for that season. With no credible opposition to Ferrari, (the BRM Type 15 had serious reliability problems initially, and its entry into Formula One racing had been delayed so that it was beginning to look to the Championship organisers that it might not be a raceable car) the decision was taken to run all the remaining races for that season as Formula Two ones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.62.235 (talk) 13:46, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

WD??

What does it mean "WD". It appears to Lance Macklin and Stirling Moss at the Swiss Grand Prix. Thanks!! --Godfroid 10:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

It means "withdrew" or "withdrawn", i.e. when a driver retired from a race voluntarily, rather than due to a mechanical failure or an accident. In this particular case, Collins and Abecassis (both driving HWMs) had suffered similar mechanical failures, so the HWM team manager called in Macklin and Moss as a precautionary measure. DH85868993 11:41, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok! Thanks a lot. I didn't understood the abbreviation. --Godfroid 15:21, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Math challenged

OK, how does Ascari get 53.5 points & have 36 count? If it's 8 points per win, that's 48. Is he getting 5.5 points for retiring at Indy? Either way, if it's 8 points per win & only 4 count, that's 32. Does that also mean he got fast lap at least 4 times? TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 10:23, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Ascari's points scores were as follows:

• SUI: 0
• 500: 0
• BEL: 9 (= 8 points for the win + 1 point for fastest lap)
• FRA: 9 (ditto)
• GBR: 9 (ditto)
• GER: 9 (ditto)
• NED: 9 (ditto)
• ITA: 8.5 (8 points for the win + 0.5 points for shared fastest lap)

Total points = 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 8.5 = 53.5. Championship points = best 4 scores = 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 = 36. DH85868993 (talk) 11:35, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

It does demonstrate that perhaps the points explanation should be moved downwards closer to the results matrix. --Falcadore (talk) 12:30, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Thx to you both. Also thx for the fast service. :D It appears footnotes for points (explaining this sort of thing) might be worth adding, & not just here. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 15:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

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Proposed renaming

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 57 20:27, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

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1952 Formula One season → 1952 World Championship for Drivers season – Formula One season is not an adequate label for this article, as the championship only included Formula Two races and one AAA race. The scope of the article is really the World Drivers' Championship and not so much the overall 1952 Formula One activities. Tvx1 (talk) 00:06, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose: I understand the rationale behind this proposed rename - indeed I proposed a similar change myself back in 2006. But upon further consideration, I decided that I believe it is preferable to leave the article's name as is, mainly due to WP:COMMONNAME (I believe most non-experts treat "Formula One" and "World Championship" as interchangeable terms - most published lists of "Formula One records" are really lists of World Championship records, etc) and for consistency with other Wikipedia articles, e.g. List of Formula One drivers is actually a list of WDC drivers, but to ensure that the text within the article is accurate, e.g. the opening sentence of this article probably needs to be changed. See also these related discussions: [1], [2]. I would also point out that although the article's main focus is the 1952 WDC, it does actually cover the Formula One races held in 1952 (in the "Non-Championship race results" table). DH85868993 (talk) 00:57, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose per DH85868993. The current situation isn't ideal but I think that it's the best way to deal with it. A further clarification in the lead paragraph is a good idea and can help anyone potentially confused, but renaming it causes questions to be asked at other articles, particularly the list of F1 drivers article as DH mentions. I've asked for that to be renamed but I recognise that it would probably create more problems than it solves. Bretonbanquet (talk) 10:49, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose: 1952 Grand Prix racing season would be a far better title. These pre-1980s articles aren't about the World Championship exclusively. Renaming according to criteria which does not match the contents is not a happy idea. --Falcadore (talk) 12:32, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Surely that means your opinion isn't a simple oppose but actually an alternate proposal? I think it's a good one. I never stated it should be exactly the name I proposed. Better proposals are welcome and I think yours is indeed better. I just don't think Formula One season is a correct label as the article hardly deals with Formula One races. It's too shortsighted. Tvx1 (talk) 21:19, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
    • I'm opposed to your proposal as it currently stands. I merely suggested a better title, not neccessarily one I would support. --Falcadore (talk) 19:12, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. As DH85868993 and Bretonbanquet have explained, while there are valid reasons for a name change, the current situation is the best way to deal with these articles without creating further problems, or contradicting what almost all sources now recognise as "Formula One". QueenCake (talk) 17:16, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
• Support. Most of the opposition seems to me to be WP:OSE. The conflation of Formula One and the World Championship is just plain wrong. It may be the legal position which Bernie Ecclestone has achieved, but that doesn't make it right historically or logically. Yes, it's a massive task to unpick this throughout Wikipedia, but it's a task which should be addressed if we are concerned with accuracy, and these articles are as good a place as any to start. --Ian Dalziel (talk) 12:10, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Renaming this article without renaming everything else, for instance all the other seasons prior to the non-existent point at which the WC (or "Grand Prix racing") and F1 did become the same thing, would be ridiculous. The chances of the project coming to consensus on such a massive undertaking are nil. Bretonbanquet (talk) 12:17, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Why? We have to make sure that we are following the source. We simply can't invent our own commonname and apply it where we want, like we are doing right now. Tvx1 (talk) 18:52, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Which source? Does it call the 1952 season the World Championship for Drivers or Grand Prix Season, and all the others F1 seasons? Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:56, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

It isn't a common sense we have invented. It is a common sense created by the sport and its followers decades ago when these two season were included in the common history of Formula One. --Falcadore (talk) 19:15, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose. F1 has been called F1 in the 50's, even when for 10 years the Indy 500 was on the calender, which was clearly NEVER a F1 race. It also was never a Grand Prix, so that eliminates 1952 Grand Prix season. We might make the introductions to the 1952 and 1953 articles clearer. Maybe starting with In what is generally referred to as the 1952 Formula One season the FIA World Driver's Championship was contested in 1952 over the course of 8 races, seven of which were contested using Formula Two regulations. Or something along those lines. Zwerg Nase (talk) 12:06, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. I support DH85868993 rationale for keeping the common name. I'm not entirely unopposed to Falcadore's suggestion, though. I think the non-championship races section is the real issue here, because while the WDC races would have been done with F1 rules had the FIA not taken an alternate course, not all of the non-champ races were contemporary F1 events turning to F2. It would be more accurate to create season pages for the 1948-1960 F2 (although there was no international championship) and move the 52 and 53 F2 races to the respective season pages, keeping only F1 races in the non-championship sections. --Pc13 (talk) 17:17, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Opening paragraph

Can anyone provide a citation for the statement: "following the FIA's decision to run all the Grand Prix events counting towards the World Championship of Drivers to Formula Two regulations rather than Formula One"? My understanding is that the FIA did not dictate which vehicle regulations each race could be run too, that was up to race organisers (hence the inclusion of the Indy 500 for many years). The world championship races were selected as the most prestigious races run each year, and due to a lack of F1 cars in early 1952, the European organisers chose to run their races for F2. See http://8w.forix.com/fiasco-onset.html A7V2 (talk) 04:10, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

My understanding matches yours, i.e. that the race organisers decided to run their events for F2 cars instead of F1 cars, not the FIA. DH85868993 (talk) 11:39, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

I've made some small changes to the opening paragraphs of both articles to not imply who made any of the decisions, but I'm not entirely happy with my own wording either!A7V2 (talk) 08:04, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

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