Talk:1961 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup final

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"Major" competitions

Latest comment: 10 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

@Danteilperuaviano: I wish I understood what the problem is that some editors have with the Fairs Cup.

UEFA didn't organise it, so it isn't included in a club's record in UEFA competition: it wouldn't make sense if it were. But going on from there to argue that therefore it wasn't a major European competition equally doesn't make sense. We don't rewrite history, we report it, and so does UEFA: their Europa League history page includes the history of the ICFC, describes Tottenham's 1972 UEFA Cup win as the 5th in a run of 6 English victories, and uses the word "rename" in connection with their takeover of the competition. It didn't suddenly turn from unofficial to major in 1972, it turned from not-run-by-UEFA to run-by-UEFA.

Things were different 50/60 years ago. Neither UEFA nor FIFA had the same control over football as they do now. In terms of "official", clubs didn't get into trouble with their domestic FAs by playing in the competition, and from the mid-1960s, entry was on domestic league position rather than anything to do with trade fairs. Anyone who'd ever looked at the amount of media coverage of the ICFC, or the enthusiasm of clubs to enter it, wouldn't argue it wasn't "major". The 1961 ICFC trophy was presented by then FIFA president Stanley Rous. If we're talking recognition, FIFA explicitly list the ICFC among Roma's "major titles". If they recognise it as major, I can't see how we can do otherwise.

Cudicini being the first winner of the 3 major European trophies doesn't stop someone else being the first winner of the 3 major UEFA trophies. It's not the same claim. Struway2 (talk) 11:28, 6 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Mitropa Cup and Latin Cup (predecessors of the European Champions Cup), Cup of Alps, Karl Rappan Cup and the Intertoto Cup (precedessor of the UEFA Intertoto Cup) played during the 1960s were also European competitions, but the problem is this: according to its own statute, UEFA is the sole organiser of European club competitions and unique responsible for what is known as "European football" or "Europe", and regarding the Fairs Cup, the Confederation daid that Fairs Cup "is not considered a UEFA competition, and hence clubs' records in the Fairs Cup are not considered part of their European record.", so Cudiccini's record is not official.--Danteilperuaviano (talk) 21:36, 14 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I can only repeat what I said above. The Fairs Cup wasn't run by UEFA, so it doesn't count in a club's (or player's) "European record" as defined by UEFA. Fact, no argument.

But to extend that to saying so therefore it wasn't a major trophy isn't justified by the sources. Regardless of who was organising them, at the time Mr Cudicini was winning the Fairs Cup, there were two major competitions in Europe: the Fairs Cup and the European Cup. Contemporary media sources reflect that: the Spanish press made just as much fuss of Barcelona winning the Fairs as they did with the European Cup. Levels of TV coverage of both competitions, at a time when there wasn't much live TV coverage of sports at all, were comparable. FIFA list the ICFC among clubs' "major titles". We're not here to revise history. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:09, 15 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

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