Talk:1968 United States presidential election/Archive 3

The photos

While I am an advocate for the color photos, I have changed the photos back to B&W to reflect consensus. Hold a new vote if we need to change said consensus, though I doubt we should keep up this habit of rapidly changing it, lest this just becomes a more wiki-legally acceptable version of an edit war. ~ AlaskaGal~ ^_^ 03:00, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Think before you speak, as you were the one who changed the photos in 1964 to color without a vote. [1] So from this view, it seems you only like change as long it is YOU, YOU who does it. Qutlooker (talk) 22:53, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

George Wallace color

Is there any source that the official color for the American Independent Party is purple? If not, George Wallace’s color should be changed to orange throughout the entire article. Prcc27 (talk) 19:36, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

New Image Vote

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Because a desire has been expressed to close this discussion, I will do so. There is no consensus emerging, and none would be expected to emerge if it continues. I suggest starting an actual RFC for wider public exposure. ~Anachronist (talk) 00:35, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

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Because there are SOME PEOPLE who are willing to be on a Hill they're willing to Die on, were gonna have another Color Image Vote SO VOTE. Qutlooker (talk) 20:12, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

I vote Color Sussyfist69 (talk) 20:14, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

@AlaskaGal Qutlooker (talk) 00:25, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

I vote B&W. While it’s reasonable to think that it shouldn’t go from B&W in 1960 to color in 1964, then back to B&W in 1968, changing the 1964 photos is also an option. Especially seeing how good color photos for 1968 don’t seem to exist. YeetusDeletusYT (talk) 00:33, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

They do exist, it's just people will find a way to complain to block change. Qutlooker (talk) 00:48, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

I am not opposing this to block change, I am opposing this because we've had multiple image votes and black & white wins every time. I was one of the earlier advocates for color images, and if good color images can be found, then yeah, this can work, but Wallace's photo is from 1962 and Nixon's from 1971. If there was no clear consensus, I wouldn't be fighting for the black & white to stay, but it's obvious what the community wants, and it's best we stick to this until a large image vote to change that consensus can be held. Also, rapid fire image votes can be dangerous, so if this does pass in either way's favor, I implore both sides not to immediately host another, or just upload another color image of any of the candidates just to push for one. Once this is over, it's best we leave it to rest. ~ AlaskaGal~ ^_^ 01:50, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

After doing some research it seems you had changed the images for 64 without a vote, so saying changing the images for 68 require a vote is pretty much BS. Just admit that you don't like change when others do it. Qutlooker (talk) 22:54, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

The problem isn't changing the images without a vote in the first place. It's continuing to change the images after all votes have resulted in the same side winning and it's clear what the majority of users want. In the case of '64, nobody had any problem with the color images being added, but the same can't be said of '68. YeetusDeletusYT (talk) 17:23, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah cause you can’t take change unless it you who does it. Qutlooker (talk) 20:03, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't appreciate this insinuation that anyone who opposes the idea of changing the images to color ones is just opposed to change unless it's themselves who does it. I'm fully open to the idea of adding colorized images to the article, as long as they look good and are from the right time. The photo you propose to add for Humphrey is all grainy and his face looks messed up. Wallace's photo, while looking good enough, is from 1962, six years before the election. If you were to propose 1968 photos which looked good, then perhaps we might be more open to your suggestion. For now, we've looked at the photos you propose, we've looked at the files and seen the dates of the photos, and we have come to the conclusion that these photos have no business being in this article. We are not trying to block change just for the heck of it. YeetusDeletusYT (talk) 20:25, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Dude, have you seem the images for 1964, they look god awful, so for you to say humphrey looks bad while Goldwater's is worse is stupid. Also, why does it have to be from the same year as the Election, a few years difference isn't as drastic as say a 20 year difference. So look at 1964 before you make baseless claims with your ego. Qutlooker (talk) 22:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I find your behavior recently very immature, but it's whatever. I will vote B&W, as per @YeetusDeletusYT. ~ AlaskaGal~ ^_^ 00:38, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

For People wondering what the images will look like:

Nixon: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Richard_M._Nixon_%28color_headshot%29.jpg

Humphrey: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Hubert_Humphrey_1968_DNC.jpg

Wallace: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/George_Wallace_%28D-AL%29_%283x4%29.jpg

(Note: Wallace has the same one as while there is another one, it just looks terrible.)

So these shouldn't look bad am I right? Qutlooker (talk) 02:07, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

The Nixon one looks much better, but I still think we need to look deeper for Humphrey. ~ AlaskaGal~ ^_^ 04:33, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

I looked, there is nothing better. I mean, there was. But was deleted.

Although this could do: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Lyndon_Johnson_and_Hubert_Humphrey_%28cropped%29.jpg Qutlooker (talk) 05:01, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Could be, but I think it's been rejected before because of the low quality and dark background. Perhaps I could search the Bettmann Archive, it's hard since many files on Humphrey are not dated and thus might not actually fall under the pre-1978 law. I'll see AlaskaGal~ ^_^ 19:00, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

He died in 79, what would be the issue? Qutlooker (talk) 21:56, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

True, I just don't think any Bettman files fall under 1978-1989. Though he was in hospital for the entirety of 1978 so it should be alright. I'll get to looking to see if we can find a clear, non-populated image of Humphrey from around election time. ~ AlaskaGal~ ^_^ 04:26, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Although if you do look at the vote count however it’s 3-2 vote so color it is. Qutlooker (talk) 18:15, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Also nobody has complained about it being used. So I think we should use the images I linked for use. Cause the problem is all the other color images for Humphrey have been rejected while this one hasn't, and plus, this one wasn't colorized using AI and doesn't have his hand in the way so I think it's the best we got. Qutlooker (talk) 22:05, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Color has my vote. The color images are not perfect, but they are an improvement from the B&W images. CrookCoMaps61 (talk) 04:09, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Color has my vote. --Ariostos (talk) 19:19, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I think this vote has now concluded, with Color winning 3-2. With the tiebreaker being Ariostos Qutlooker (talk) 16:52, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think votes conclude that quickly. Not sure if there is precedent, but if it's been a week or two since the last vote and it isn't an evident landslide, then I would wait. ~ AlaskaGal~ ^_^ 16:03, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

It's been a week. And also I believe we should add the discussion closed template. Qutlooker (talk) 16:33, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I vote for the B&W Images HistorianL (talk) 18:02, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Closing the image vote

@Qutlooker, I've opened a discussion at the Teahouse so that we can get some advice on closing this discussion properly. If it's closed and the latest black & white vote discarded, then color will be confirmed and I will protect that consensus from now on. This whole thing wasn't a dispute or me attempting to make an enemy out of you, I originally advocated for color and still prefer color, I just think that we need to respect the existing consensus and do this properly, especially not rushing it because of how many past discussions there have been about this. It's too important for us to ram this change through without a clear vote in favor which is externally closed. ~ AlaskaGal~ ^_^ 21:13, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I very much agree. I, too, always generally favored the color images, but wanted to respect the wishes of the majority. Now that a vote has ended in favor of the color images, I think it's safe to say there's no problem with using said images. YeetusDeletusYT (talk) 17:43, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

While there's fights about if HistorianL's vote is valid, I still think it should be, but I think I mostly just concede. Our efforts should be on getting a better Humphrey photo. AlaskaGal~ ^_^ 20:28, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

First and foremost, see WP:Wikipedia is not a democracy. No one can say "the vote is over" and expect that to be binding, unless they follow established procedures like WP:RFC. If someone has an opinion after an informal discussion like the ones above is ended, they ought to be considered. WP:CONSENSUS is not what 3 editors said in one section, but what is the overall opinion in all sections and discussions taken together. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 21:42, 28 July 2023 (UTC)