Talk:Tenerife airport disaster

Use of image of "similar" KLM plane vs image of captain in in-flight magazine

Twice in recent days, the status quo image in the KLM Flight 4805 sections has been changed to a photo of a "similar" KLM aircraft. First by an IP editor here: [1] and secondly by @Crafty121: here: [2]; both times without an edit summary explaining the change, and Crafty 121 just created an account this week I see. Given that the actual incident aircraft already has images in this article, I fail to see what is to be gained by adding a photo of a different aircraft which was not involved in the accident. Further, the status quo image of Captain Jacob Veldhuyzen Van Zanten seems to me to be far more useful in this section than a photo of an unrelated aircraft since the section provides background about him. After reverting the second editor am bringing this here for discussion lest I fall afoul of WP:3RR. Echoedmyron (talk) 23:57, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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Final quotations from CVR of PanAm

The final quotations from the recorder of PanAm in the collisions section are not in transcripts of the event on third party websites. When you Google the statements (at least the first page) of results looks like they copy this quotation from Wikipedia. It looks to me like a dramatized/fictional quotation. Can we please find a reliable source for it? Peace and Passion ☮  ("I'm listening....") 01:16, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Researching back into the history, there was a transcript that morphed over time like a meme, with minor and major changes consistently being made to the transcript. A 'dubious' tag was associated with the section. On May 27, 2007, with no further citation, an editor removed the tag. At one point the captain even included "Oh, Shit!" Please tell me someone's fictional last words haven't been on the Wiki for about 15 years... (and spawned into other later sources). Peace and Passion ☮  ("I'm listening....") 04:41, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

A PBS Nova source (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/planecrash/minutes.html) has the quotation, and they say it is from this (http://www.project-tenerife.com/engels/PDF/Tenerife.pdf) document. Oddly, it is not in that document. It would likely be around page 57 (of the document's printed pagination), but it is not, all that is said is the report writer saying there were "logical exclamations of alarm." Unusually, as well, the "goddamn" quotation is not in the actual transcript-format part of the Nova article, it is in an associated paragraph, while earlier in the article they say the paragraphs not in the transcript itself are "NOVA annotations" (fabrications?). Peace and Passion ☮  ("I'm listening....") 05:05, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Also not in Project Tenerife's HTML version of the recordings (http://www.project-tenerife.com/engels/cvrtranscript.htm). Peace and Passion ☮  ("I'm listening....") 05:18, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

The annex of the 1978 CIAIAC report (pdf page 94) and the 1978 ALPA report (pdf page 69) include the quote but had already censored the words the article is claiming were said. --84.66.238.118 (talk) 16:33, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

It really surprises me official investigation transcripts would be censored, in any case. Alas, now I'm not sure what to do about it (in the article mainspace, that is). Suggestions? Peace and Passion ☮  ("I'm listening....") 04:47, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

[Note: I just realized that a more thorough transcript is "hidden" collapsed in the article. I had not recognized this at first, hence my apparent confusion above. Nevertheless, it still appears problematic, and the now cited video narrator adds in the swearing, while a redacted transcript is shown on screen. This must be somewhere!] Peace and Passion ☮  ("I'm listening....") 05:06, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

How is it the deadliest?

It doesn't look like the deadliest in aviation history, because 9/11 had more deaths. Even if this disaster had hundreds of people killed, American Airlines Flight 11 had thousands killed. 2607:FEA8:551D:8E00:3153:B49F:7ABE:F902 (talk) 01:22, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

It says it is the deadliest accident. 9/11 was not an accident. Echoedmyron (talk) 02:14, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

KLM aircraft's name

Are we quite sure about the KLM jet's name? It is given in the article as Rijn, and while we can see the name Rhine (not Rijn) in the infobox photo, it is only painted on the fuselage fore. Aft, we see another name, The Flying Dutchman, seemingly in the same style of lettering. Furthermore, it is the only name that we can see in this picture. What is the explanation? Kelisi (talk) 06:34, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

The Rhine is on the front File:KLM Boeing 747-200 PH-BUF (7491686916).jpg. The Flying Dutchman was apparently a marketing thing on (all? / many?) KLM aircraft. PH-BFF for example and PH-BUR --Dual Freq (talk) 14:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)